Oberlin ex-Pres. "Oberlin needs an intervention. STOP. Pay up, apologize to the Gibsons, reflect.."

Colleges & Universities Oberlin College
281

Look at their financial report. Over 1/3 of the endowment is illiquid and 2/3 of the operating revenue was from tuition. Operating expenses were $184M/year. If the endowment takes a hit and they lose full-pay students then they’ll have to reduce expenses…cut staff and services.

Endowments are a pet peave of mine. Schools are sitting on $Billions. I always hear the funds are earmarked for XYZ but they grow every year. Sure, they give some away for scholarships but at some point they’re going to have to dip into the endowments. If the pandemic doesn’t qualify for dipping into the endowments then what does?

282

My child loves campus life at Oberlin and doesn’t hear talk about Gibson’s. She’s very focused on her classes and friends and has many interests outside of class so it’s just not something that ever comes up. She has also worked for a business in town and so have many of her friends. There is a good relationship between Oberlin and many town businesses.

283

To answer the question, the mood is very much along the lines of your first option (“My son/daughter goes to class and studies and no one talks about this any more. I feel they are getting a good education.”). To be specific, really nobody talks about it at all. The ONLY thing I hear from my child and her friends about Oberlin right now is how much they miss being on campus and how hard all the professors are working to make this remote education thing work.

Before they all had to leave, similarly, I never heard a word about anything not directly related to her schooling, classes, or her friends. The most negative thing I heard was how hard some of her classes were. The most positive was that she was having a great semester and that some of the classes she thought would be impossibly difficult were actually quite manageable.

284

Credit where credit’s due: according to Oberlin’s president, Oberlin is “planning and working towards an on-campus, in-person fall opening” as of May 5.

A wise choice, given the flood of class-action lawsuits seeking to claw back millions that are now hitting those colleges that have shut down amid the panic.

It seems unlikely that Oberlin would long survive a second judgment, this one seeking clawing back as much as 20% of tuition and fees paid by Oberlin students.

285

Kim Kardashian needs to take on the Gibson’s case lol.

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It’s not the fear of lawsuits. Oberlin is no different from any other college or university - they need the room and board fees in order to balance their budgets.

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Oberlin is VERY different from other colleges in its category in that most of them do not have a lawsuit of that magnitude hanging over its head on top of the COVID19 issues.

It is in better shape than a number of schools that do not have the endowment and luster than it has. But schools more heavily endowed without this financial albatross around their necks are going to be suffering financially over this pandemic

288

Oberlin’s medium term risk is not lawsuits, it is the venal incompetence of its recent executive hires and internal promotions. The President, the Dean of Students, the General Counsel (and others) - these second stringers are not up for the challenges that face any LAC not of the very highest tier, to say nothing of a school with the financial and reputational issues of an Oberlin.

289

I always considered Oberlin a top school, certainly in the top tiers of LACs unless narrowing that tier to sparse numbers. It’s always been highly regarded by folks I know. I do not know how this Gibson situation has affected the regard folks have had for the school. Frankly, I would not have known about this except for this forum.

1 Like
290

I would submit that no “top” LAC needs to discount tuition such that only 10% of the class is full pay as at Oberlin (suspiciously close to the percentage of international students). Last I checked, Williams, Amherst, and a few others have no problem attracting full pay families, and could fill their classes I am sure with them if they chose.

I am generally a fan of market attributions of value, and given the low yield of Oberlin despite the generous “merit” discounts that are way too ubiquitous to truly represent merit awards, the market has spoken.

YMMV, of course!

291

Oberlin’s yield is on a par with that of many other highly-thought-of midwestern colleges. East Coast and West Coast colleges of a similar caliber tend to have much higher yields because they are closer to large population centers of students who are applying.

If you were to move Oberlin to the San Francisco area or to New England, without changing anything else about it (were such a thing possible) the acceptance rate would surely fall, and the yield would undoubtedly rise. Neither of these would necessarily be a good thing, even though they would raise the college in the U.S. News rankings.

292

“Oberlin’s yield is on a par with that of many other highly-thought-of midwestern colleges.”

Here’s what the evidence shows for highly (and not so highly) regarded midwestern LACs - from Fall 2017:

St. Olaf (MN) - 43% yield, 31% acceptance rate
Carleton (MN) - 38% yield, 21% acc.

Wabash (IN) - 28% yield, 63% acc.
Simpson (IA) - 28% yield, 83% acc.
Oberlin (OH) - 27% yield, 34% acc.
Grinnell (IA) - 26% yield, 29% acc.
Kenyon (OH) - 24% yield, 34% acc.
Denison (OH) - 22% yield, 37% acc.

Oberlin lags far behind St. Olaf and Carleton (and also Colorado College and Davidson in NC). Oberlin long ago ceased to be among the top 20 LACs - it’s mid-tier now.

Oberlin’s peer group is really Grinnell, Denison, Kenyon - not Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Swat etc.

293

Does Carleton give merit aid to practically all domestic admits who do not otherwise receive need-based aid?

I don’t even think Grinnell does that.

Oberlin is not top-tier. Recent events confirm that.

294

In this regard, I was curious to also look at draw rate. From Jon Boeckenstedt: “Draw rate is not commonly known, and I wish I remember who first mentioned it to me in the 1980’s. It stuck with me and is a valuable metric, I think, as we attempt to measure market position. It’s Yield Rate/Admit Rate, and it sorts out the super-selective places even within the category. For example, The Average Draw Rate is about .46; Stanford’s is 18, and Dartmouth’s is about 7. It’s intended to punish institutions who artificially inflate application numbers to appear to be more selective, as yield usually drops when you do that. Of course, now many colleges manipulate this (even if they don’t know it) by using ED, ED2, EA, etc. to drive yield higher.”

Here is the data for the institutions from post #291.

2018 Draw Rate
Wabash 0.49
St. Olaf 0.59
Kenyon 0.68
Simpson 0.70
Denison 0.71
Oberlin 0.82
Grinnell 1.06
Carleton 1.90
Wesleyan 2.07
Davidson 2.37
Colorado College 2.82
Amherst 3.08
Williams 3.31
Swat 4.28
Bowdoin 5.33

295

We think alike! I also went to this analysis of draw rate for another measure of where Oberlin stands right now. Clearly not top tier.

296

Same here, noticed that as well. Generally speaking, highly regarded private institutions will have a ratio of Yield:Admit (“draw rate”) that’s higher than 1.0.

Some more Yield/Admit ratios plus a quick calculation of the draw rate:

16+ …Harvard: 82/5, Stanford: 82/5

11+, 12+ …Columbia: 62/5, Princeton: 69/6, MIT: 76/7, Yale: 72/6

6+, 7+, 8+ Duke: 53/6, UChicago: 72/9, UPenn: 65/9, Brown: 59/8, Dartmouth: 61/9, Northwestern: 55/9, Cornell: 63/10

4+, 5+ …Johns Hopkins: 40/12, CalTech: 41/8, Vanderbilt: 47/11, Rice: 42/11

2+, 3+ …Notre Dame: 55/19, UCLA: 37/16, WashU.StL: 37/16, Georgetown: 47/16, UC Berkeley: 44/17, USC: 37/16

1+ …Emory: 29/19, Carnegie Mellon: 37/22, University of Virginia: 38/27

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@OneMoreToGo2021 - Carleton no longer gives merit money - this changed over the last few years. They speak about this in their tour/presentation and talk about how they have moved funds to need based only. (with the exception of a handful of scholarships).

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Thank you, very helpful. If Oberlin eliminated the almost universal $20k/yr “merit” discount, its draw rate would be even less impressive, and even further below Carleton. FWIW I consider Carleton to be a top tier LAC, on par with the likes of Williams, Amherst and Swat. I bet if it were in the Northeast, its draw rate would be even higher.

(Thanks to all for the work on draw rate. Very interesting.)

299

Depends upon where one draws the line at top tier. I think Grinnell and Kenyon right up there. As highly rated as the very most selective LACs like the little Ivies? No. But the name recognition , reputation has always been there for me and to many in the private school area. That it is very much a progressive, liberal type school has its detractors. I, for one, am not a fan , but That’s just an opinion and I do not hold it against the school.

300

You can find that draw rate data/analysis on Jon Boeckenstedt’s blog, ‘higher ed data stories’, from a post a couple of months ago. Always thought provoking stuff from him, he is VP enrollment at Oregon State, previously was at DePaul. Just google it, I can’t link to blogs. His twitter account rocks too.