http://theweek.com/speedreads/626361/oberlin-students-want-abolish-midterms-grades-below-c
Thought it may be an article from The Onion. Nope.
For the grades, looks like they want them to be like Brown:
WPI has no grade below a C. If a student earns less than a C, it is an NR, or No Record. No credit is given. If it is a required class, it must be re-taken. The grade is not reflected in the GPA.
I’m all for “learning for the sake of learning” and feel that grades can get in the way of that objective. I do understand that the are a measure of sorts, and may have some use, but people tend to learn for the sake of grades, if there are grades. . . . inquiry disappears. Genuine thought often breaks down into: “How can I best BS the paper with enough buzzwords to get the grade I need” which is basically what a lifetime of standardized testing has fostered.
However, I’m not sure about getting rid of grades–or the low-end of grades–so that people can go out to protest rather than focus on classes. Although it’s possible to argue that protest is a form of learning in itself, I think that it’s hard to learn chemistry that way . . . .
The WPI approach @VMT seems abundantly reasonable.
Not everybody is learning for the sake of learning. Many out there are having certain career goals and college academics is just one step for them on their long way to achieve their goals. They have to have a certain college GPAs and the GPA has to reflect where these students TRULY are in regard to academics. Now, there are lots of other non-academic requirements that they have to complete during their college years and these are not graded anyhow with the exception of the possible latter of recommendation. Anyway, learning for the sake of learning is very awesome idea except that the vast majority of students cannot afford it. They are on their way of becoming financially independent and productive members of the society and the system is set up for that. The system is trying to steer the student who are not keeping up with academics in certain classes, to steer people like these into career path that is more suitable for them. The low grades in certain classes should make the student to analyze their situation in regard to the chosen career path and possibly switch to something else. That is what college is for. Many change their major. Grades are simply a feedback, the tool that should trigger certain action on the part of the student, but not the protest against them, which is completely counterproductive.
I feel the way the whole system is going, pretty soon no sport will be allowed to declare the winner…very sad… that we should be giving in to those who simply need to sit down and re-think their own situation hopefully with their support team, like parents, friends,…etc.
While abolishing midterms is a bit much, the part about abolishing grades below C is an attempt to return to the grading system which existed at Oberlin before 2004.
Before 2004, any letter grade below C- was counted as a “No Entry” on the internal transcript and not recorded on the external transcript given out. While this may sound good/slackerish at first glance, someone failing too many courses will not only have to explain the gaping holes* in one’s transcript, but also why he/she fell below full-time status if his/her courseload fell below 12 credit hours.
Another thing is if one fails too many courses in a given period, he/she is still in danger of not only not making sufficient progress for FA purposes, but also being academically suspended/expelled as happened to some classmates during my undergrad years there.
Granted, this could also pose some issues for students who had legitimate reasons for taking less than a minimum full-time 12 credit semester workload such as someone who needed to take a reduced load for medical reasons or a second semester senior who maxed out on credits in previous semester so he/she only needs 11 credits or less to graduate.
- I.e. Failing 2 3 credit classes in a 15 credit load semester which will mean the student concerned will have to explain to grad schools/future employers who request external transcripts why he/she took only 9 credit hours that semester.
The pre-2004 grading system at Oberlin was almost exactly like Brown…except we did have plus/minus grades.
You can flame me, but even if you are learning for the sake of learning, it’s just not that hard to get a C in a college course. Most colleges have a pass/fail option for exploring subjects that are outside the student’s areas of strength. Not doing the work and earning a D isn’t “learning for the sake of learning.” It’s disrespectful of the instructor and of the classmates who might learn from you if just put in the work.
@Massmomm Elsewhere on CC there is a link to an article about Oberlin students who are spending so much time protesting that they 1. feel they don’t have enough time left to do their homework and 2. feel they should get paid by Oberlin for their time spent protesting.
^^Yes, I know. My son goes to Oberlin! But he’s an outlier there.
Oberlin is pretty traditional academically when you get right down to it. Professors, majors, courses, grades, essays, exams, etc. That model isn’t right for everybody or every time in someone’s life. If you have other priorities, I believe it’s right to pursue those. But I don’t believe the model of setting expectations and holding people to that standard ought to change (least of all in the middle of a semester). Talking to the professor about your grasp of the material is quite a different thing from writing an essay test.
“the part about abolishing grades below C is an attempt to return to the grading system which existed at Oberlin before 2004.”
Yes – I remember this policy, and I think it’s fine if the college wants to go back to it. I do have to wonder, though, why these students are so worried about having Ds or Fs on their transcripts as opposed to just missing credits. Are they planning to go to graduate school? What do they think that will be like?
Very simple. They will be fighting to abolish bad grades in the graduate school too.
It is fair - protesting takes a lot of time and energy.
They wouldn’t necessarily have to worry about getting Ds and Fs per se…though your point is well taken.
Unless one attends a professional grad program with harsh grading schemes, one won’t have to worry about getting Ds and Fs in grad school. In some academic grad programs I know of…getting too many Bs* can be enough to prompt a meeting with a concerned adviser and/or Dean of one’s grad school.
One case I know of happened to a couple of grad classmates of a friend in an engineering department at MIT. They were basically told by the departmental head that having too many Bs was concerning and if it continued, they may need to consider alternative plans.
Also, in some professional grad programs, one’s grades/GPA often takes second fiddle to how one’s GPA ranks with other classmates in his/her cohort…such as law schools.
- Bs in academic grad programs(MA/MS/PhD) is the equivalent of a C. -B and below is equivalent to an F.
Hey, I felt the same way as an undergrad at Oberlin, and taking some undergrad/grad classes at a couple of elite universities. That was…until I found many classmates most of whom had far better HS GPA/approx class rankings were struggling and in some cases, even failing the same exams, essay assignments, and courses which I felt were manageable.
In a few cases, I ended up in an odd position of being as perplexed about their struggling through the same course material/concepts as my genuine genius level public magnet HS classmates were with me when they wondered how could I have failed/gotten Cs/Ds/Fs on material which they felt was so easy they felt “even an idiot should be able to get an A”.
“Unless one attends a professional grad program with harsh grading schemes, one won’t have to worry about getting Ds and Fs in grad school.”
They turn their work in on time and take the exams as administered, or they leave. I’m chuckling at the thought of asking a law school professor to have a conversation with you in lieu of writing the essay exam. You can know the material all you want; you need to be able to explain it clearly, in writing, under time pressure.
Then again, some students asked my classmate, now a Harvard Law professor, not to cover rape on the criminal law exam because it was too upsetting. So who knows what other outrageous requests are coming.
(The professor did not agree to exclude any course material from the exam. BTW, I wonder why we’ve never heard of a student who lost family members to murder requesting an exemption from learning the law of murder.)
Funny part is if I found a course required a conversation only exam as a critical part of one’s grade and it isn’t in the form of a casual conversation, but a serious examination, I would be among the students who would look upon that prospect with dread.
And it’s justified based on what I’ve heard from a few HS/grad classmates who took a Columbia undergrad course with a veteran Prof renowned for mandating a key portion of one grade is a 30-45 minute oral examination where he is notorious for probing and being effective in finding weak areas where the student didn’t do as much in-depth reading to his exacting standards. One such classmate described the experience as “an inquisition of one”.
Also, while class participation and office hours are taken into account, I had no problems nor issues with taking midterms or finals as scheduled. As I said before, their demands regarding midterms are a bit much IMO. Especially considering most Profs when I attended were more than happy to grant extensions/incompletes at the drop of the hat. Even with classmates who needed them because it was quite obvious they goofed off for most of the term. And I mean actually goofing off…not participating in political activism/protesting something.