<p>Hey if numbers really matter, maybe you’d like me to start talking about the number of nurses it takes to move an obese man to the bathroom and clean the feces out of the folds of his thighs. I could talk for hours about those numbers.:eek:</p>
<p>
Hey, it’s not my kink, but if it turns you on I say go for it. Who am I to judge?</p>
<p>I’ll save it for another time, I have to get my beauty rest.</p>
<p>soooo… you really ARE complaining about that?</p>
<p>I just happened to be glancing at Darwin’s “Origin of Species.” It’s a wonder we’ve survived this long with all of those … IMperfect people around. If only everyone were perfect (at least in a superficial way) we wouldnt have so many heavy people to turn over!</p>
<p>Hey Curm! Ain’t this fun? (I think that’s enough for tonight, though. It’s almost 2am Eastern and I should let my flabby rolls rest. Let me know if we should continue in the morning or put it out of its misery. The thread, I mean.)</p>
<p>So hang on, let me just see if I have this right. The consensus on here is that obesity has little to do with people’s choices, and is almost entirely due to genetic and/or environmental factors, thus consigning the population of America to gradually get fatter and fatter because nothing can be done about it?</p>
<p>Excuse me if I don’t buy that all of America has some kind of genetic predisposition to obesity that people in many other developed countries - with much lower obesity rates - don’t, and that has spontaneously become significantly more common over the last quarter century. Unfortunately, the way American consumption culture is - more, more more (coming from Canada, the difference in portion sizes and costs for food is huge) - it takes a lot of conscious effort to not get fat. But that doesn’t mean it’s impossible. </p>
<p>Excuse me if I think that things like a tripled frequency of fast-food eating, and quadrupled aggregate calorie intake between 1977 and 1995 have something to do with it.</p>
<p>I guess I must just be a bigot.</p>
<p>Some of you are making ridiculous arguments. How about this?</p>
<p>Choose between:
- Having a low income and no college education.
- Having a college education and an upper-middle class career as well as giving away 10% of your income a year to assist person #1.</p>
<p>I don’t believe that assisting others is a requirement of the law, it’s a personal choice that I can make if I so choose. Luckily, I haven’t encountered the “seat on an airplane” situation, but if I’m paying for a seat to be moderately comfortable (it can be difficult when you are tall), I definitely don’t want half of my seat taken away because someone else deemed it “right” to feel bad for the fat guy.</p>
<p>Call it what you will, I have no sympathy for the obese. There are options out there for all of the non-Pimas and it’s their own fault if they don’t take advantage of them. </p>
<p>I don’t accept that modern lifestyles and culture are excuses for problems that people have. Nobody doesn’t have enough time to exercise, nobody doesn’t have enough money to buy healthy food, and nobody doesn’t want accomodations for issues they may have. I’ll live my life as a healthy, non-obese individual, and as long as the obese individuals aren’t causing me undue discomfort, then I’ll have no problems with them. </p>
<p>Ethnicity, religion, and gender are all very different than obesity. Do we need to build larger fighter planes so obese people can fly in the airforce? If concerned individuals would like to pay for it, that’s great, but it won’t be on my dollar.</p>
<p>Hey padad, I resent being called a bigot. The American food industry produces 3900 calories per person per day. But the does not mean that one must stuff it all down. To become morbidly obese has to entail chronic overconsumption. Food is as addicting as cigarettes and alcohol, but that does not excuse one’s lack of self control. And I certainly don’t think it means that one should then become a member of a government protected self-interest group</p>
<p>"Oh, y’all matter. You just don’t matter as much as you think you do. </p>
<p>Tell you what, Sarahsmom. You take all the perfect folk. All you imperfect folk, you sinners, y’all come with me. "
See the thing is this: it’s this attitude that makes it ok to spread out and lounge on someone else’s body, which happens to me twice a day, every work day. The “it’s ok because you aren’t obese” thing allows people to feel comfortable making no effort to sit up straight of close his legs a little bit. Because, you see, somehow the offending people (usually male) somehow make the effort to sit up straight and remain on their own seats when the person next to them is also a male. Explain that please.</p>
<p>being married to an obese person, I have a lot of sympathy (but no excuses because lifestyle is a huge component), but I am also an off-sized person. How would you like to go through life the slze of the average 12-year old? I don’t get my rights trampled on, I get my body trampled on. My face is at elbow level for most men while walking and I get impacted quite a lot. I’m also too small to see over most things, pushed and shuffled all the time. So we all have our own circumstances, but that doesn’t make me less of a person (except in terms of mass), and I can tell you (as will most smal women) that large men stake me out to sit next to on the express bus or the subway simply because they know that they can take my space.</p>
<p>You know what? I say we tase the fat people…that’ll teach’em some personal responsibility!!!</p>
<p>(and then CC can combine two more threads, too.)</p>
<p>I think that some of us are just a bit taken aback by the lack of compassion and tolerance towards those in less fortunate circumstances, especially since you don’t know their private stories and histories.</p>
<p>For one thing, theres no black + white. Yes, there are inconsiderate people everywhere. The down and out man who asked for cab fare last night, was apologetic and thoughtful, even though he had liquor on his breath. Even as I gave him a few dollars he was explaining about how he fought in the first Gulf War and trying to give reasons why it was ok to help him out. You’re right that if he had been abusive and not showing any gratitude I probably would not have helped him out (I still have some needed growth to do in the forgiveness/compassionate arena.) So yes, even overweight people can be inconsiderate.</p>
<p>But how about those who have a constant struggle to lose weight. Do they really need to be teased because they have a condition that they CAN’T control? How do you know how much they work at losing weight and just cant? PLEASE watch an episode of The Biggest Loser to see how hard these people are trying and having such difficulty succeeding.</p>
<p>How do you think an overweight person (oops! a CONSIDERATE overweight person) would feel reading this thread? Don’t you think they would react MORE and just want to eat to do SOMETHING to combat all of this hatred? What you don’t understand is that there are psychological components that none of us understand that makes it more difficult for the less then perfect people to live up to the standards of society set by the more perfect people.</p>
<p>Im 15 lbs overweight and would LOVE to get that weight off. But I work 15 hours a day, eat fairly healthily, and my main priority right now is earning enough money to send two kids to college (and pay the other bills also!) I REALLY CAN’T AFFORD the time or money for a gym or to buy better quality food (as much as </p>
<p>It’s like people with perfect pitch who think that those without just aren’t trying hard enough. Their ears are REALLY upset by inconsiderate off key singing or out of tune instruments. “Why cant they just try harder and sing on key!” There may be less of them then of you, but they really think that way because it’s so easy for them to be ON key! Or maybe they’ve worked really hard to get their pitch closer to perfection and can’t understand why no one else cares! Meanwhile, their ears hurt right down to the pit of their stomachs and they cringe any time they hear someone off key.</p>
<p>Good one, Garland! It is pretty amazing to me that some people feel so free to express such prejudice against those who are different. I’m not saying that lifestyle has nothing to do with weight, but some people just have a much harder time.</p>
<p>Some kids have learning disabilities – so they get extra time on the SAT. Should we just tell them that they are stupid and that it’s all their own fault? No, of course not – we offer them ways to be successful despite their problems.</p>
<p>My sister’s husband struggles with his weight. It has to be genetic. We’ve been on vacations with them, and I guarantee you that I eat more junk than he does. He’s not sedentary, but he does have issues with his endocrine system. My kids can eat like there’s a coming famine, and one weights about 140 and the other around 160. (they are 5’11" and 6’0", respectfully.) Does that make them better human beings – just because they have good metabolisms?</p>
<p>Based on the comments on this thread, I think maybe we DO need anti-discrimination laws for the obese. There is a huge amount of negative feelings toward them, as evidenced by this thread. It reminds me of the prejudice against those with mental illness in years past.</p>
<p>The issue of fault aside, it surprises me that anyone is so very comfortable admitting to judging others negatively based entirely upon appearances. I have seen more compassion from 17 y/os on a Yale Chances thread than from some of the adults on this one.</p>
<p>If a job forces you into contact with people you find disgusting, wouldn’t everyone be better off if you moved on?</p>
<p>“Let’s see, Sarahsmom, you don’t like fat people, they’re lazy and gluttonous, and you don’t like drag queens because they’re perverts. Hmm. Guess it’s great there in perfect land.”</p>
<p>MBK, you forgot to mention that she also has a problem with people with skin that looks like leather with big pores (especially if they were cool in H.S. or college) (from her posts 175 and 176 of the sex in college thread).</p>
<p>I agree that some posts have definitely gotten meaner and more sophomoric lately (like frazzled1 said, worse than in some of the kids’ forums).</p>
<p>One thing is discussing the issue of obesity as it relates to one’s life with constructive insight and compassion (like zoosermom and others have), and another is talking about it for entertainment value. </p>
<p>So, I’m with Cur and MBK here…</p>
<p>Speaking of compassionate threads and insights, has any one heard from Berurah lately? I loved her contributions!</p>
<p>bdmrad. A bigot is defined according to most dictionary as a “person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices (Merriam-Webster)”. I don’t see how some of the posters here don’t fall into that definition.</p>
<p>Yes, we all recognize the “airplane seat problem”. Perhaps we should devote our energy to lobby the airline industry to make better accomodation for the obese people.</p>
<p>Being obese is a medical condition. It may be exacerbated by certain forms of lifestyle but the root cause is certainly genetics. Furthermore, not everyone of us could be blessed with an environment that actively promotes healthy lifestyles that do not exacerbate genetic predisposition to obesity. For many obese people, quiting a bad lifestyle is easy, they have done it many times (my apology to Mark Twain).</p>
<p>Re: Garland - “You know what? I say we tase the fat people…that’ll teach’em some personal responsibility!!!”</p>
<p>At first I thought you were serious, since your comment fits right in with the mean-spirited attitudes here. I’m glad to realize that you were being facetious! But isnt it an amazing comment on some of these people that I thought you wern’t?</p>
<p>All I can say is “There but for the Grace of God.”</p>
<p>Or here’s one: “Don’t judge others until you’ve walked 10 miles in their shoes.”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Making healthy eating a priority is not as hard as you might think, and it is not more expensive than eating “fairly” healthy. It does take a commitment, but only a couple extra minutes out of your day to prepare a simple lunch and snacks to take with you rather than choosing fast food. If you go to the grocery store at all, it is no extra effort to make healthy choices. </p>
<p>It is difficult for many people to find the time for exercise, but even 15 minutes a day of brisk walking helps. At home, stand rather than sit, do exercises while watching the news, you can even move your legs and exercise your abs while on the computer or standing in front of the mirror in the mornings. Every little bit helps.</p>
<p>You will feel better and more prepared to face your challenging work day when you know you have paid attention to your health.</p>
<p>Please!</p>
<p>I spent years being a strict vegetarian and going to 5 yoga classes a week. I slept 4 hours a night and woke up refreshed 4:30 every morning to do 2 hours of yoga and meditation. I was in absolute perfect health without an ounce of fat on me. If I got sick at all, it was for a few hours instead of a few days.</p>
<p>That was before kids.</p>
<p>Yes, if only I had kept up 15 minutes a day, I would be in much better shape then I am now. I wish I had, but I didn’t. I’m no longer a strict vegetarian, but I sure do know about healthy eating and I’m much stricter then the majority of people in this country.</p>
<p>So when I say it’s hard to get back to it, I mean that it is. That’s not an excuse, just a comment on my current lifestyle. Telling me that it’s easy, really doesn’t help.</p>
<p>I don’t think name calling and ad hominem attacks are productive.</p>
<p>I said that obesity is a disease of chronic self abuse, with its attendent complications, e.g. diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, accelerated degenerative arthritis requiring joint replacement, just to name a few off the top of my head. Smoking and alcoholism are similarly self abusive with their own complications. As we strive to help those who smoke and drink to quit or moderate, shouldn’t we also encourage the morbidly obese to improve their health? I don’t think they should be ridiculed, but there is something seriously wrong with this society - too much TV,video games, high fructose corn syrup, fast food, you name it.</p>
<p>I, too, am really astounded at the lack of compassion and by the sense of superiority displayed by some in this thread. </p>
<p>Here is a link to the ADA: <a href=“Redirecting…”>Redirecting…;
It is a complex area of the law and not my area of specialty. I note the definition of “disability” here:
<a href=“2”>quote</a> Disability
The term “disability” means, with respect to an individual
(A) a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more of the major life activities of such individual;
(B) a record of such an impairment; or
(C) being regarded as having such impairment.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am not up on current case law in the area, but I don’t see why an obese person who is substantially limited in one or more of the major life activities because of that medical condition would not already be covered under the Act. </p>
<p>In addition to the general meanness displayed here, there seems to be some misunderstanding of what the ADA would require of a covered entity. Reasonable accommodation is generally what is required. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.</p>