<p>Tase fat people? Hmmm…I wonder if I can set up a taser that is activated by the refrigerator door opening? My self control, along with my housekeeping standards, has really weakened over the years.</p>
<p>It’s no use. They just don’t get it.</p>
<p>I DO need to get more tolerant and compassionate about close minded and mean spirited people, however. They sure are missing out on a lot in life!</p>
<p>i.e. A smile and “thank you for understanding” goes a long way towards helping me get through my day. (like the down and out man who asked for cab fare last night. I could have refused and judged him because of the strong smell of liquor, but he was so grateful that he started telling me how he was a vet and apologizing for having to ask for help. It sure did feel good to help him out and that he was so grateful.)</p>
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<p>ADA compliance can get very expensive for employers and businesses if it means tearing out and reconstructing portions of their buildings to accomodate the disabled. When the ADA was adopted, many businesses and municipalities were required to construct wheelchair ramps on sidewalks and entryways for example, which was quite expensive but certainly was necessary in order to offer the disabled equal opportunities.</p>
<p>Requiring the reconstruction of restrooms, new seating installed on transportation and new furnishings to accomodate the obese could be very expensive for many businesses. But its time has come.</p>
<p>I agree that there are expenses involved and that some of them can be expensive, at least at the outset. On the other hand, as someone posted earlier, some of the changes not only bring businesses into compliance with the ADA, they also help their businesses. If more and more customers and clients of a business are obese, it would seem to be good for business in the long run to accommodate those customers.</p>
<p>Sticker… that just made me sad. I’m pretty sure you got my point; but even if you didn’t agree, I’m surprised you’re so quick to trivialize it.</p>
<p>I don’t think sarahsmom or any others have responded directly to my “Personal Responsibity Crusade”. How about it folks? What about the breast cancer patients who drink, the folks with heart disease who eat red meat, the asleep at the wheel paraplegic? Since all of their conditions were arguably brought on directly or heightened or exacerbated by their own actions or inactions (lifestyle choice), are they worthy of empathy or not? And if so, why them and not the obese? Where’s the line? </p>
<p>Next, I find it amazing that anyone would argue that the science wasn’t there to support a diagnosis of a chemically based depression. One poster dismissed it almost entirely, and others have seemed to want to discount depression and its impact especially as a cause for overeating. Are y’all afraid to admit to what you believe? Just come right out and say- “People who say they are depressed just need to get a grip. It’s tough all over. Suck it up, crybaby.”</p>
<p>I want to ask y’all a question, what sympathy do you feel for a sufferer of anorexia or bulimia or other eating disorder? Should all of those folks show a little willpower? Nothing a bacon cheeseburger won’t cure, right? Gee. We shouldn’t even let them have health insurance, if they can’t control themselves better than that - I mean look at them. And if you do feel empathy for them , why not the obese?</p>
<p>I’d really like y’all to answer out. Let’s get this stuff out into the sunlight.</p>
<p>Right on, Curg!</p>
<p>And while we’re at it, Im a professional photographer and I just can’t BELIEVE all of those lousy pictures out there! GET CLOSE! Just fill the frame with the subject and you’ll get a MUCH better picture! Knowing that, I expect all of you to email me your vacation pictures and show me how well you’re doing. Then I can retire because no one will have to hire me anymore since they all take such great pictures! (there’s a point in there somewhere, I KNOW there is!)</p>
<p>Ok, how about this. A challenge to anyone who thinks that they’re somewhat intelligent, which means willing to be open to new information to change their old beliefs: Watch an episode of The Biggest Loser and say again that if they really want to lose weight, then they can. Its EASY! Eat better and exercise! Simple!</p>
<p>The causative effect of alcohol on breast water and red meat on heart disease is not as direct as the causative effect of food on weight. So to your questions, no. But I was never in favor of denying overweight people health care.</p>
<p>What I find mystifying is that everyone here seems perfectly willing to ignore the evidence of increased caloric intake and unhealthier food and the concurrent massive increase in obesity rates. Everyone seems to just figure that it’s not reasonable to assume that anyone has any control over their weight. Am I on track here?</p>
<p>Maybe a carbon tax would have an effect. Takes a lot of CO2 to make a Big Mac.</p>
<p>Thanks, 1of42, for the two answers. So that’s not direct enough for you in those two instances. Got it. Needs to be more direct. </p>
<p>What about this one: heart disease and lifestyle choices (except for obesity). Mega Stress, sedentary, bad diet, whole enchilada just not obese. Is that direct enough so we could withhold empathy? Everyone knows that most heart disease is lifestyle related , don’t they? Or still not direct enough? </p>
<p>But how about the paraplegic and the anorexic? Any thoughts on them? Seems pretty dang direct- don’t eat enough to support life - die or get really sick. And then die. Fall asleep at wheel (speed, run a red light while talking on your cell) - bad stuff happens, including paralysis. Can’t be more direct than those two , can you?</p>
<p>I posted on another thread yesterday to wonder if there was a full moon over CC this week and I really do wonder. I posed the initial question on this thread using the word “thoughts?” which contains (in my universe no value judgment) but was really about the use of the term “Civil Rights” for other than black rights. Since the idea was originally set forth by a presidential candidate, I thought it would be interesting to discuss. I had no idea where this thread would end up. I did say (and stand by it) that I don’t want people sitting on me, which is probably more an issue for me as a daily commuter from the fattest borough in New York City, spending at least 3 hours every work day on a bus, than it is for the occasional traveler. For the record, my husband is clinically obese and I see his struggles and adjust my life to accommodate him and I love him dearly and understand that the combination of working two jobs, drinking a daily two-liter bottle of coke, and being programmed from childhood to eat everything on the table have conspired to do him in. I am not one of the haters or even judgers and I don’t condone or agree with much of the sentiment posted here. I understand that offense was taken by me comparing my lack of stature (well below 5 feet) with a person who is obese. I really don’t get why people would find anyhthing that I, personally, wrote so offensive as to rip me a new one in PM. Perhaps someone could enlighten me, personally, about that. Otherwise I’ll assume there really is a full moon over CC.</p>
<p>zmom, I agreed with you on the seat issue. “Infinitely fair” I think I said. Sorry you got tarred and feathered for someone else’s posts. But because of your posts (including the one you highlighted) you got lumped in with the personal responsibilty crowd in our “us versus them” world without ever saying you wanted to be. It’s obvious now from this post you didn’t want to be with them.</p>
<p>“I am not one of the haters or even judgers and I don’t condone or agree with much of the sentiment posted here.” </p>
<p>Glad to hear it. </p>
<p>Don’t know how enlightening that explanation is but IMO that’s what happened.</p>
<p>Garland, I know you were not poking fun at the obese. I guess I am reacting to the movement afoot that would include the obese in ADA protections. I’m completely against this. I absolutely DO understand that obesity is a condition that nobody chooses. But it is a condidtion caused largely by lack of self-control. I know – I need to get my own self-control stepped up a few notches in regards to my weight, my personal & household organization, etc. I can name many other areas where people are discriminaed against because of size or ability. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, the discrimination is often quite necessary to find someone capable of performing the job. Perhaps a dyslexic woman should not BE a lawyer if she can’t rapidly absorb the necessary reading. Perhaps a wheelchair-confined man should not BE an emergency medical technician if he can’t adequately assist his patients. Perhaps an obese man should not BE a flight attendant if he can’t easily move through confined spaces. The patients & clients these people serve desere workers who can do the job safely & efficiently.</p>
<p>Should companies discriminate against potential employees who smoke? Drink alcohol in excess? Are morbidly obese? All these behaviors are proven to lead to more sick time & serious health care issues. If employers want the “best & the brightest,” and we all seem to understand why, shouldn’t self-created health liabilities be part of employee hiring consideration?</p>
<p>“zmom, I agreed with you on the seat issue. “Infinitely fair” I think I said. Sorry you got tarred and feathered for someone else’s posts. But because of your posts (including the one you highlighted) you got lumped in with the personal responsibilty crowd in our “us versus them” world without ever saying you wanted to be. It’s obvious now from this post you didn’t want to be with them. Don’t know how enlightening that explanation is but IMO that’s what happened.”
Thank you Curmudgeon, that means quite a bit to me. I didn’t think that ignoring posts would be viewed as assent, which it isn’t, but it obviously was viewed that way. I simply didn’t feel I had anything to add to the path the thread had taken, except my obsession with men who won’t close their legs!</p>
<p>But SS, it’s never that simple. You would penalize all the folks in insurance and hiring , even the ones who arrived at their conditions through no fault of their own? Why would self-created matter to the employer? Wheelchair is a wheelchair. Paralysis is paralysis. What’s the goal? Punishment or efficiency ?</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, I bet that if I were to apply to work in a trendy retail establishment like Abercrombie or Urban Outfitters I’d be turned down. Middle aged moms (carrying extra pounds around, to boot) just aren’t going to be presenting the image they are going for. I think it’s a bit Pollyannish to think otherwise. </p>
<p>It is a comlex issue, I know.</p>
<p>OK, Crabby ya’ll want it in the sunshine? Here it is. </p>
<p>I don’t feel sorry for smokers and the fall out from their addiction.
I don’t feel sorry for the obese unless they are “Pimas”
I don’t go to drag shows and I don’t like people who lie about who they are and then after playing with someone’s emotions tell them that they are bisexual cross dressers.
I care about my weight and try to work out regularly. I’m of average weight.
I quit my job as a hospital nurse after injuring my back trying to get an obese man out of a special obese chair that cost the hospital $2200.00 to provide.
I teach my kids that casual sex is disgusting and irresponsible as well as dangerous.
I think that gay people should join churches where they are welcome and stop demanding that all churches change 2000 years of doctrine so that they can feel good about having gay sex.
I ask that kids sleep in separate bedrooms from their boyfriends while staying in my house.
I was ridiculed by the “popular kids” in h/s so I get some satisfaction at reunions when I see h/s was their “peak”.
I’ve worked hard all my life to maintain a healthy weight, and I think that blaming it on others, pollution, airconditioning and fast food resturants is a cop out.
I think that it’s hardly the same to compare the responsibility for eating well and exercising and unknowingly participating in something that results in cancer.
I find porn disgusting.
I was raised by hard working parents who taught me good work ethics.
I know many, many people who feel the same about all of these issues, but are afraid to speak up because they fear being called “intellectually impaired”, but I could give a rip what people think of me. I am who I am and if you don’t like it, you don’t have to read my posts. I regularly ignore posts by people when I don’t care what they have to say. It’s my option. There is no clause in the rules here that states we must read every word that someone says, and I am not offended if you don’t read mine.
OK, so there you have it. Let’s here about you, Curm. If you wanted me to tell the world who I am, what about you?</p>
<p>Stickershock: Here’s a link that may help address some of the issues you raised about what sort of discrimination may be permitted under the ADA. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/q&aeng02.htm[/url]”>http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/q&aeng02.htm</a></p>
<p>SS, let’s go another way. Where’s the line.
Heart disease? All or some?
Spelunking?
Obesity? All or some?
Anorexia?
Bulimia?
Colon cancer?
Tennis elbow from sports?
Torn ACL from sports?
Bullfighting?</p>
<p>Yikes, Sarahsmom. Not jumping on your bandwagon.</p>
<p>However, I think StickerShock has a point. I am still reeling from a friend’s revelation yesterday, that her exceptionally dyslexic child, who was almost flunking out of the two other majors he tried, has settled on a new one.</p>
<p>Elementary Education.</p>
<p>I do have a problem with this kind of thinking, that we can all do all things. Some of us really can’t.</p>