<p>PS, Life is not fair and I’ve taught my kids this too. I don’t expect the government to pay for everything, but do think that we need a national health care system.
Bring it on, baby!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But what about when they do KNOW it? Alchohol is bad? Not that unknown. Eat a good diet high in fiber? Not that unknown. </p>
<p>
:eek: Heavens to Betsy , I can’t imagine anything I’d care less about learning. LOL. I didn’t ask about all that other stuff . I just asked you a couple of questions. But you go right ahead. We’ll wait for you. </p>
<p>I still want answers to what you feel about depression and mental illness and what you feel about anorexics and bulimics and what you feel about those that injure themselves in accidents of their own making. Direct answers please. Worthy or unworthy of our empathy, health insurance, hospital beds, and accomodations if needed?</p>
<p>And, I think you made a wise choice leaving nursing. Like Allmusic said, not everybody can do everything. Some of us really can’t. ;)</p>
<p>cur,</p>
<p>I think you are wrong about how others view, for example, the lung-cancer sufferer who smoked his whole life, the drunk driver who ended up paraplegic, the woman who starves to death of anorexia, the sexually-unprotected AIDs victim. I think others generally view these people as having chosen their fates to some degree, especially if they are educated and refused to get help or make the effort to avoid these consequences.</p>
<p>I am at a healthy weight now, after struggling for years and after losing close to 60 lbs. Every day I have to think about it, and not allow myself to fall back into bad habits.
That being said, nobody has mentioned that a recovering alcoholic does not have to drink every day to survive, and a smoker can avoid situations where cigarettes are present. A person with food addictions must still go to the grocery store, walk past fast food places and go to the fridge several times every day. Also, once the weight is on, it is much more difficult to move in order to exercise.
When I was obese (wow- I said it!) I sensed that there were people who were disgusted by me. It was tremendously embarrassing when I would walk thorugh an aisle at the theatre, or squeeze through a crowd. I remember vividly holding my arm once on an airplane so I would not be hanging over onto someone else’s seat.
I joined Weight Watchers 2 years ago, and made significant changes in what I ate. I still eat things I enjoy, but I choose when I am going to do that, and I exercise like crazy. Could I go back to where I was? Very easily. It is scary how eay it could be; just stop exercising for a month, and allow myself to eat everything I want.</p>
<p>I never sensed hostility from a heath care worker though, and I am really happy I didn’t. I have a freind at Weight Watchers who didn’t go to the doctor for 10 years because she didn’t want to be humiliated. Now that she has lost 157 lbs. she goes with pride. I wonder how many people out there who read this thread will not go to the Dr. now because of fear that the nurse (a professional who is supposed to be a patient’s advocate?) is disgusted by them.
By the way, I do pay higher premiums for my insurance than the rest of my family. We purchased a seperate policy so I would not cause everyone’s premium to increase. (I guess it is time to revisit that now that I am at a lower weight!)
I totally understand about the seat thing on an airplane. And I too have found it is mostly the men who don’t mind letting thier body parts hang over. It’s not always overweight people either, some guys are just big guys with long legs and they will just get thier bodies in what is comfortable for them, despite the fact that they are touching you.</p>
<p>Having been on CC for a couple of year now, it seems that there are a couple of times a year when things get wierd. March is definately one of those times, and I guess Sept is the other. </p>
<p>Anyway, sorry that my contribution is long winded and goes nowhere. Sarahsmom- I hope that if you are still working with obese patients that you are a good actor. It is very hard to make yourself go to the Dr. when you are overweight, and if your attitude shows you may be causing people to not seek the help they need.</p>
<p>bay, did I use ANY of those examples? Please comment on mine, and please don’t attributes yours to me. Those are yours. </p>
<p>No sympathy for aids patients who didn’t use protection? Maybe you are right, but I certainly feel bad for a kid with what may be a death sentence for what could have one night of unprotected sex.(Edit: What am I saying? I’d feel bad if it was after 100 times, too.) </p>
<p>I still sense a feeling of punishment for bad acts. Serves them right and I don’t want to pay for it. Aids is punishment for unsafe sex . Is that really what you people are saying? And then we shouldn’t have to pay because it was their own fault for having unprotected sex. Let’em die. </p>
<p>Yeah. And I have to admit, I feel bad for those other “weak” folks you listed , too. </p>
<p>Anorexics? No sympathy? Gee. Tough crowd.</p>
<p>anothermom, Congrats on losing all that weight! </p>
<p>As far as the nursing thing goes, I didn’t start out being disgusted, and when it got to the point that I was unable to cope, I got out. I asked not to be put with obese patients, and when I was with them, I treated them professionally. Several patients actually requested me to be their nurse because I’m really strong and tall.
Most of the time obese patients feel bad about the extra work they know that they cause, but sometimes they did not care in the least. Believe me, some obese patients treated us like we were their servants (not just obese patients!)</p>
<p>Stickershock, quote: "Should companies discriminate against potential employees who smoke? Drink alcohol in excess? Are morbidly obese? All these behaviors are proven to lead to more sick time & serious health care issues. If employers want the “best & the brightest,” and we all seem to understand why, shouldn’t self-created health liabilities be part of employee hiring consideration?</p>
<p>I would think that you want to target your hiring policy to child-bearing age women first. Statistically, the chance that they take time off for maternity care is quite high. Furthermosre, there are those who want multiple children. Secondly, you should target all parents who have young children. They take time off when their kids get sick too. finally, your policy should direct to men whose wives are also gainfully employed outside of homes. Now, that will be more productive.</p>
<p>Curm. </p>
<p>You can have empathy for someone who is in pain but still believe that the cause of their pain was self inflicted. My dad has end stage emphesyma from smoking. I don’t feel sorry for him, I love him and have empathy for him, but I don’t feel sorry for him. He doesn’t want us to pity him, he knows that he brought it on himself even though he started smoking at 13, he knew by the time he was in his early twenties that there was no way it could be good for him. When he’s in the hospial he tells the nurses all to quit smoking and not to pity him.</p>
<p>Well, I feel sorry for your dad. Sorry he’s going through that. My best wishes. My Aunt (and my D’s favorite Great -Aunt) died last year from it (also smoking related).</p>
<p>So we have fat people, anorexics, type II diabetics, anyone who accidentally injures themselves or contributes to their injury by their own negligence, and people who injure themselves by their choice of activities involving known dangers (motorcyclists, skydivers, mountain climbers, skiers, bicyclists), depressed people, addicts, gamblers, OCD people …I’m not even started good and think the boats already getting full of people we don’t feel sorry for or feel empathy for (another line drawn I don’t understand) in PerfectWorld.</p>
<p>cur,</p>
<p>I think most humans feel empathy/sympathy for others who have personal problems and incapacities. I mean, who doesn’t have them? We all do, none of us is perfect. Some people, myself included, feel it is everyone’s duty to make their best efforts to be a healthy, functioning, contributing member of our society. I don’t think anyone on this thread has condemned people who have medical conditions that cannot be controlled despite reasonable efforts.</p>
<p>Curm, thanks for the well wishes. The only reason for my “list” was because I got tired of people taking things out of context from other threads and trying to paint a picture of me. I figured if they want to know who I REALLY am, I’m not afraid to tell them.
You have no idea what stuggles I’ve had to deal with in my life and you can claim that I think I’m perfect if it makes you feel better. Have fun.</p>
<p>bay, "condemned? Is that what y’all are doing? “people who have medical conditions that cannot be controlled despite reasonable efforts”. Who gets to judge what is reasonable? You? How do you know what’s in their mind? What demons they face? </p>
<p>you haven’t answered my questions, have you? 
Is there a reason? sarahsmom is out there, why not you? Depression? Negligent driver? You’ve already said anorexics are condemned. </p>
<p>Who else?
Fat people who don’t try hard enough.
What’s the definition of trying hard enough?
Well, staying on a diet till you get healthy.
But what if they can’t stay on a diet?
Then they are not trying hard enough. See. It’s simple.</p>
<p>Who else?
The depressed who don’t try hard enough.
Well, what’s trying hard enogh?
Getting out of bed everyday, working a full shift, coming home and doing all your chores, being good to your family.
And what if you can’t do those things everyday?
Then you’re not trying hard enough, are you? </p>
<p>Hey. I think I’m getting the hang of this thing.</p>
<p>Bay is not required to answer your questions, curm.</p>
<p>“Next, I find it amazing that anyone would argue that the science wasn’t there to support a diagnosis of a chemically based depression.”</p>
<p>If you mean me, I did not dismiss the science entirely. I have devoted the last 25 years of my life to it; It’s how I make my living. I’m only saying the science isn’t as convincing as the pharmaceutical industry would have you believe and that depression is more complicated than you think. Obesity is complicated too, and while there is some evidence of a genetic basis, people aren’t as convinced of it as they seem to be about mental illness. There was a a concerted effort to have people NOT blame themselves for mental illness. Perhaps the same will be true for obestiy. I think both are chronic problems that are comlpicated to treat and benefit from varying amounts of effort and responsibility from the sufferer.</p>
<p>Yup, I concur with Shrinkrap.</p>
<p>sarahsmom, Well, obviously she doesn’t have to. But she has a good reason not to, now doesn’t she? Sunlight.</p>
<p>cur,</p>
<p>I think you misread my post. I said no one has condemned these people. Anexoria and depression are treatable conditions. I don’t believe, in general, that people lack empathy for sufferers of these conditions if they seek treatment but cannot be helped.</p>
<p>cur: Just got back. Here’s my problem with your examples: while each is caused by an action the person took, they are not reversible. A paraplegic can’t become functional again by driving safer, and a heart disease victim who’s already end-stage can’t just repair his or her heart by stopping stress (though doing so will make them live longer).</p>
<p>While obesity is not totally reversible (after being obese for a long time, one’s metabolism changes in ways that make it harder to lose weight, and so forth), it is reversible enough that if someone really wanted to do something about it, they could, with at least a limited degree of success.</p>
<p>And therein lies my problem with the whole “obesity isn’t something I can change for myself” attitude. Yes, it’s tough. Yes, it may be expensive. Yes, it takes time and a great deal of effort. But I fail to see why, should a person decide that losing weight is not a priority, the rest of us should be forced to accommodate for their choice.</p>
<p>The above is not even taking into account the facts that I have stated, that you all continue to ignore, regarding how fast obesity rates have accelerated in the past 25 years, which throws the genetics argument out the window. Sure, genetics is responsible for some of the baseline obesity, but the massive increase is not a result of some kind of hug genetic change. It’s environmental and lifestyle changes that cause it, and it mystifies me that you all continue to ignore that, and vilify those who point out that in the vast majority of obesity cases, a huge amount of positive change could be made simply by lifestyle changes on the part of the person. Yes, there are lots of exceptions to that statement, but there are far more cases that it describes exactly.</p>
<p>An obese person isn’t required to lose weight. They’re not required to become thin. And I won’t look down on them for deciding that they don’t want to - I have lots of fat friends, and never ever look down on them for it - but as soon as they start asking for me to make sacrifices to accommodate what is essentially their lifestyle choice, that’s where I protest.</p>
<p>Np. I read it correctly. You qualified your “we won’t condemn you” statement by “reasonable efforts” meaning if reasonable efforts were not employed then …?</p>
<p>What’s a fair assumption? LOL.</p>