<p>I believe the statistics are that exactly 5% of obese folks can take off the weight and keep it off without surgery. (I saw this on the UCSD website.) 5%. Not great odds and that includes all the programs regimens exercize plans there are. I guess the other 95% are just not trying hard enough.</p>
<p>cur,</p>
<p>If you look back at my posts, you will find that I have not written anything judgmental about fat people. To the contrary, I have conceded that obesity will shortly be the norm for Americans.</p>
<p>If you want to pin something on me, then here it is (and I stated it earlier): Everyone can make healthy food choices and everyone has a duty to make healthy food choices.</p>
<p>
They don’t always work, bay. I wish they did. I’ve lost more than a few people close to me.</p>
<p>If you look back at my posts, you will find that I have not written anything judgmental about fat people.</p>
<p>I guess then that “judgmental” must be like the word “reasonable”. We don’t agree on that word either.</p>
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<p>You know, there are a lot of reasons why people don’t seek treatment or why it doesn’t work. For one thing, many people cannot afford treatment, especially the ongoing care that is necessary to treat many conditions, such as mental illnesses. I don’t know about other communities, but in mine, the availablity of mental health treatment is abysmal. Beyond that, there are other reasons, frequently resulting from interaction among conditions, including perhaps the ones that some folks are citing as treatable. For example, an obese person with severe asthma or degerative joint disease may have difficulty exercising. Just following a basic weight loss regimen of good nutrition and sensible exercise may be near impossible for a person with a limited mental capacity or limited reading ability. These problems are medically, psychologically and socially complex and are compounded by a lack of affordable, appropriate medical care for many people. </p>
<p>Also, just because a condition is “treatable” does not mean that treatment will always work or that the condition is curable.</p>
<p>cur: I’d like to see that 5%-95% statistic backed up, only because it seems ridiculous to me.</p>
<p>More accurate is probably “95% of people who diet end up giving up their dieting plans and returning to a previous weight”, which is certainly believable. As I said in the last obesity thread, I believe that if one is capable of actively maintaining a healthy lifestyle, including eating healthy food and getting a lot of vigorous exercise, obesity will not even be a concern for them, and if they are overweight, they’ll be healthy nonetheless, and thus it won’t matter.</p>
<p>As I said before, I don’t have any problem with fat people. If I’m around a fat person who is gorging his or her heart out on fatty foods, I’m probably going to mention that it’s a bad idea, in the same way that I mention the health risks to my friends who are smokers (especially heavy smokers). This doesn’t make me a bigot or judgmental, merely concerned for their health.</p>
<p>1of42: I agree completely.</p>
<p>Cur: As I’ve said before statistics/studies are EASILY manipulated by the folks that pay for them and those who will benefit from their results.</p>
<p>From the UCSD website : </p>
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</p>
<p>Blame UCSD. Ain’t my numbers.</p>
<p>I’m not a doctor and I don’t know the cite for the actual study. Maybe a physician will chime in.</p>
<p>Cur: As I’ve said before statistics/studies are EASILY manipulated by the folks that pay for them and those who will benefit from their results.</p>
<p>LOL. On that note, I think sarahsmom has made it clear that rational conversation is over, to paraphrase -“I don’t care what evidence you bring, I ain’t budging. I knows what I knows.” Jiminy. </p>
<p>Y’all have fun.</p>
<p>See ya curm. it’s been real.</p>
<p>SS–I PM’ed you.</p>
<p>Final thought and not directed to any particular poster…I had no idea that people walked through a hospital deciding how to feel about a patient based on that patient’s own involvement in acquiring their illness or having their accident. I swear it never entered my mind. I can’t recall a single time I’ve wondered if the guy in the chair was a drunk driver and I know I’ve never bothered to ask about those with aids what kind of protection they were using. </p>
<p>So, CC has been really good to me today. I walk out feeling like Mother Teresa, the Dalai Lama, and Phil Donahue all at the same time and I gotta tell you, that’s a stretch.;). Thanks, c</p>
<p>Who is Phil Donahue?</p>
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</p>
<p>Wasn’t he a successful racing driver in the 60’s and early 70’s?</p>
<p>I haven’t read this whole thread, but padad, you’re joking, right??? The former king of daytime television woulf be terribly hurt to think people don;t know his name:-) Reminds of the time I was in the VHS section of a rummage sale with D and she asked, "Mom, who’s Jane Fonda? Mr Donahue was Oprah before Oprah. I’m sure he’s on Google.</p>
<p>I’m not sure if I should continue this thread or not, but I wanted to bring up something my vegetarian daughter learned this summer when she was working with inner-city children. She lived right in the community, and boy were her eyes opened to our nation’s haves and have-nots when it comes to food.</p>
<p>Her first phone call home: “Mom, I cannot believe that there is no grocery store here. The closest one is more than a mile away, and there are no fresh vegetables or fruits any closer. There are a couple of fast-food places a couple blocks away and that’s it.” </p>
<p>The kids she worked with had no clue about eating right, because their families never had access to fresh, healthy stuff. Playing outside? The closest open space was frequented by drug users and sellers. My daughter came to realize what an undertaking it would be to have to travel that far after work (and she would never have ventured that far in that part of town at night).</p>
<p>Until everyone has access to fresh, wholesome food, this health problem will not be solved.</p>
<p>I don’t own a TV, and my lack of this one worldly possession creates a giant hole in my life. I have not heard of Oprah either until she starts, to my great annoyance, putting her name on books; it forces me to run out to get books before she has the chance to put her sticker on them.</p>
<p>WOW! I thought this would be over by now.</p>
<p>I’ve been gone for a few hours, and look at all I’ve missed! Let’s see … I can address every post, or repeat what I’ve already said (anyone take me up on the challenge of viewing The Biggest Loser and being open to changing their mind with new info? Or is that just too much to ask from seemingly intelligent college parents?) or …</p>
<p>Hey Curm, need any help? Or are you ready to give up? I gotta get some work done!</p>
<p>No that would be the Dalai Lama - Marlo wouldn’t have married a racecar driver. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/D/htmlD/donahuephil/donahuephil.htm[/url]”>http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/D/htmlD/donahuephil/donahuephil.htm</a></p>
<p>I have been reading this thread with my jaw on the floor. I’m not particularly religious, but I know that some of you are and I think a little of the “WWJD” policy might be in order. See a guy in a wheelchair - let’s see - what would Jesus do? Wag his finger and say “I told you that if Dad had meant for you to go racing about, he would have given you wheels instead of feet.” I think he probably had quite a sense of humor, so maybe if he saw an obese guy eating too many fishes and loaves, he’d quip to his pals, “That guy’s eating like it’s his last supper.” Tough crowd.</p>
<p>I haven’t read this entire thread, but regarding the airplane issue, since more weight on a plane means more fuel is used, and since we have to weigh our luggage, I think passengers should be weighed with their luggage and pay by the pound. That would be fair to everyone. (And skinny people would get to take more luggage!) </p>
<p>Thin or average size people should not have to put up with someone else’s body touching them, spreading into their seat and personal space on a plane. (Not to mention the body odor that most obese people have because they cannot wash thoroughly). A thin person is not at fault and should not be called intolerant or a bigot for not wanting to have his/her space invaded, sense of smell offended, and body touched against his/her will (assaulted) by someone who is too cheap and inconsiderate to pay for another seat. An obese person is asking me to pay for his comfort, but cares nothing about taking away my comfort. Consideration should go both ways. </p>
<p>The thin person has the right to–and every reason to expect–all the “comfort” (little, I know) that the full measurement of the seat he/she paid for can provide. If I have to pay extra if my luggage is one pound overweight, why should someone who weighs literally three times what I do get to pay the same price for a ticket–and avoid paying for another ticket by spreading into 1/3 of my seat? I think planes should have a few more rows of larger seats and charge more for them to help keep all their customers comfortable.</p>
<p>Everyone was thin in the old days because there was no surplus food. Even in my parents’ generation only the rich had surplus food–people worked hard to feed their families, portions were small and there were no seconds. They had dessert only on holidays, birthdays or when guests were there for Sunday dinner. And they did physical labor on farms or in factories. Now it is easy to buy all the food we need and plenty extra, big portions, snacks, and desserts every day. We have a sedentary lifestyle. Office jobs. Drive cars everywhere. </p>
<p>IMO the sendentary lifestyle is the biggest cause of today’s obesity. Humans were never meant to be sitting in front of desks, TVs, computers, etc. all day. Also, I’ve noticed among friends and their kids that overweight mothers tend to have a different idea of what constitues “a portion” to feed themselves and their kids–they tend to give their kids large portions, always think the kids must be hungry, need frequent snacks, etc.–just my observation–larger portions and bad habits learned from obese parents who have bad eating habits could be contributing to childhood obesity and much as genetics.</p>
<p>It always strikes me when I see pictures of crowds taken, say, in the 40s–where a whole town turned out to say farewell to the soldiers getting on the train, for example–how thin everyone was. Almost everyone in the picture is thin. Truly, Americans looked like a different species. </p>
<p>I used to work at a park in the summers in the early 80s where I saw large crowds of people in shorts and tank tops every day. 15 years later I visited the same park with another former worker. Our first impression upon entering the park was, WOW–look how FAT everyone is–including the college age workers! What happened between the early 80s (where some were overweight) and late 90s (where an obviously much higher percentage of people were overweight)?
WE had TV–but they had cable TV, videos, DVDs for rent, computers/video games and many more opportunities for sendentary entertainment–not to mention more and more access to fast/junk food to eat while entertaining themselves.</p>
<p>I recognize that some people are obese because of endocrine disease, or medicines they take to treat other diseases can make them obese, but overall I think that people are fooling themselves when they blame anything but too much food and too little exercise for most obesity–those pictures from the 40s don’t lie. </p>
<p>Huckabee for Pres! (He lost over 100lbs through diet and exercise). People who say a 2-3lb a week weight loss is not much or not significant–well, it took years to put on all that weight–it will take years to get it off. I’m not sure, but I think it took Huckabee about a year to lose 100 lbs (2lbs a week).</p>