<p>Oh man, ucsd dad…pretty scary to think he did this more then once!! Obviously, the criminal here is the doctor. The women are too wacky to know what they are actually doing. He is supposed to be the professional… I’m just disgusted about all of this. It is impossible to even think Octomom, has any clue at all about what she’s done.</p>
<p>I do know when I had my triplets…I felt like a miracle happened. I did feel blessed…but scared too. But, everytime a little baby is born it is a miracle…1, 2 3, 8…all miracles. But, I completely appreciated and understood all of the ramifications of delivering triplets. I do know of many sets of trips and quads where all are healthy. I prayed that we would have that too. Its funny, because I prayed for perfect babies…(we all do)…and I had one with problems…most people think that is a sad thing, lol. But after all the angst in the early years, it turns out that my “special” boy has brought me so much joy…Yet, I still worry that I can’t give them all enough attention! They are triplets…it is natural that they all want more time…(this is early years). Trying to give equal time was impossible. There were more times then not, that my special needs child had to come first…leaving my other 2 incredible kids to wait for their time…I always felt guilty. It didn’t help that they were both exceptional in thier own rights…my dd was a brilliant student/athlete who was valedictorian of thier class…DS1 was an amazing vocalist from an early age…I was always always torn. Thank God my mom was always there to go to the event that I couldn’t attend…I had to take turns with which one seemed to be the most important. I KNOW this isn’t a problem that only parents of multiples have…but, I think there is an automatic competition between kids born together…To this day, I don’t feel like any of my kids got the 1-1 attention they should have…and I only had 3!! They say they’re ok, lol…cause I constantly ask.</p>
<p>I just wonder if Nadya even has the capacity to realize she brought 14 people into the world…each one needs to bond and feel special. Thats the part that upsets me so much.</p>
<p>I must say, I think maybe its time for Jon & Kate plus 8, to get off the air. This is just a bad thing. They are making alot of $$ of their kids. I think it would be healthier for the kids to just be as normal as possible…stop focusing on the oddness of thier birth. The other benefit to this is that any other wacky women out there, won’t be tempted to have babies to “get famous or rich”.</p>
<p>“The Times now says she is 5-months pregnant with quadruplets and hospitalized. The paper adds that the woman has no insurance so she was transferred to a county hospital where she will stay until the births which might not be for two or three months.”</p>
<p>If she couldn’t pay for insurance, how could she pay for infertility treatment? Why would she think she could support a baby?</p>
<p>papengena - I, too, have been paying closer attention to Jon and Kate, trying to figure out exactly how much their notoriety has played into a sense of entitlement from moms such as Nadya. I saw Kate on Dr. Phil earlier this week as they spoke of the octuplets (multiple births in general), and she was a very different person than I see on the show. She seemed so much more human, and I saw a soft side to her. I doubt the show will go on for much longer. As the kids spend more time in school, it will be much more difficult for film crews to get the footage they need.</p>
<p>This whackjob has a kid who is autistic, and she volunteered to have some more? AUTISTIC?! I have a couple of friends with autistic kids. Each family has only two kids, and still the parents feel guilty that they can’t devote enough time to the non-autistic sibling. One of the autistic kids still had his own aide in school up through middle school. </p>
<p>Autistic kids need a LOT of attention. Fruitcake octomom is unbelievably selfish, and doesn’t care a whit about the welfare of her children.</p>
<p>I’m really struggling with some of the references to this mom, who I think we can all pretty much agree to now, has serious mental health issues. Since when does it become OK to call people with mental health issues names? I see similarities in this mom’s story with Britney Spears… both made bad decisions because they did not accept the fact that they had a problem, nor did they listen to anyone who tried to suggest otherwise. Both were out to self-destruct. It’s like watching a train wreck waiting to happen, but unless the courts step in (like they did with Britney), and she gets the psychiatric help she needs, I don’t necessarily see it as something completely in her control. I absolutely place a huge amount of blame on this situation on the doctor. Given the state of her mental health, he absolutely took advantage of her. What would we be saying if Britney were off trying to do IVF a year ago? People would be screaming at her to get psychiatric help (as she finally did), not calling her names (OK, maybe some would, but generally when people are recognized as having psychiatric issues, we are more kind in our judgement of them). I also understand the anger in regards to her placing her burdens on the taxpayers and that her children deserve a better life than they one they’ve been given, but many, many psychiatrically ill people place huge financial burdens on our governmental systems, all the time. I just think it does a huge disservice to those who are mentally ill to be subjected to name calling; it reinforces the stigma our society has for them, and creates an environment of shame. </p>
<p>She definitely needs help, and all I can hope for now, is that someone steps forward (as Britney’s parents did MANY times, trying to intervene) and insists she get some psychiatric help. Only then can she begin to understand what exactly it is she has done, and begin to create some solutions to her problems. </p>
<p>I, for one, am going to try to be less judgemental of her, seeing that this is obviously some deeply-seated disorder (the lies that have come out in the last couple of days regarding her church, taking money from the government and her obsession with Angelina Jolie) that will not be remedied by name calling. I just don’t see how someone can be in such a state of denial without some serious issues (beyond anything she can fix on her own) going on that need professional help.</p>
<p>After reading some info about Dr. Michael Kamrava, it seems that he and his patient may have matching narcissistic personality disorders. I had initially thought that Sulemon must have had damaging information on him and blackmailed him into this IVF cycle, but now it appears he is enough of a medical maverick to have gone along with her plan without much reflection.
Also, i was wondering if it is common to get state disability payments for a 2 year old with speech delay and a 7 year old with ADHD? She is either understating those children’s limitations or her disability claims may be fraudulent.
I predict these kids will end up in foster care, as I don’t see how she will be able to keep them all safe and cared for.</p>
<p>Teriwtt, I understand what you’re saying and respect your opinion, but these are really serious matters. As a society, we need to figure out where to go with regard to reproductive technology and freedom. Part of getting there is to debate and discuss freely. That’s not always pretty, kind or politically correct, but it is necessary. We also can’t expect that things will be right with the 14 children without serious public outrage and pressure to make it so.</p>
<p>Octuplets mom is pursuing a career in counseling. She was injured at a riot in a mental hospital as an employee.</p>
<p>The irony that this highly trained and educated woman couldn’t see how destructive her actions were doesn’t bode well for her in the future as a mental health expert or childcare expert/tv host (as she has expressed an interest in becoming). Would any of us choose to go to a psychologist or counselor that was more mentally messed up than the patients? </p>
<p>My own grandfather suffered terribly from mental illness. He sometimes didn’t know what he was doing and how destructive his actions were. His wife and kids and even grandkids suffered because of it. When I have referred to her as crazy, it is because she is. Can she get treatment that would be effective to cure her problems? I hope so. She won’t get help until she sees her problem, this is true…but the damage has been done. </p>
<p>At this point, we can only hope that her children won’t suffer for their mom’s emotional and mental health issues. Sadly, they probably will.</p>
<p>I agree with teriwtt that there is no need for name-calling when referring to a mentally ill person. Yes, zoosermom, these are very serious matters, and I agree with everything that you said as well. However, I think that public outrage and pressures to change can occur without having to use offensive names to describe human beings. </p>
<p>There is a huge problem of untreated mental illness in our country due to many reasons, and the actions of these sick people affect everyone. I hope changes can be made in the future that will ensure treatment for everyone.</p>
<p>Does that mean I can’t call her “octomom?” </p>
<p>Has it been confirmed that Angelina Jolie got letters from her? </p>
<p>Could this doctor be the father of all these babies? Not just hers but the other women? There was a case in Northern Virginia where a fertility doctor was using his own sperm for years and years without women knowing it. They think he fathered as many as 75 kids.</p>
<p>zmom - I think we’re on the same page. I agree that there should be outrage, but in a constructive manner. I’m just thinking down the line, when these kids are old enough to read (and with our technology, they will have access to everything that’s been written on the web about their mother), it will be very painful for them to see the nasty names that people are calling their mother, when it’s really a mental illness she has. I think the difficult dialogue regarding her decisions and those of similar moms is absolutely necessary, but it needs to be constructive, and I just don’t see namecalling as constructive. I just feel for these kids, when they realize, down the line, how much hatred there is for their mom… to the point of people using death threats. Again, when is it OK to threaten people with death because they have a mental illness?</p>
<p>It’s never, never, never ok to threaten someone. Never. </p>
<p>I don’t have a problem with “Octomom” and I don’t have a problem with words like “sick,” “disturbed” or “mentally ill.” Perhaps even “crazy,” because I honestly think she is some of those things as a matter of fact. I do get your point, though, and will be more careful for exactly the reasons you mentioned, as well as our friend Papengena’s observations.</p>
<p>Same could be said about Sarah Palin. Or Bristol Palin…</p>
<p>Take out the “mental illness” and add in “politics” or “personal reproductive choices” and we can see there seems to be a different standard at work around here. </p>
<p>But that didn’t seem to stop the majority of posters in the threads from calling them names or ripping them apart. I was told plenty of times that Bristol Palin probably won’t be coming to CC, so it wasn’t a big deal to talk about her in disparaging terms…</p>
<p>(I know, I know, people in politics…different standard, right?)</p>
<p>I am always amazed by death threats - who are these people? I feel pretty strongly about lots of things - big surprise, right - but never has it ever entered my mind to send someone any kind of threat. I am angrier at the doctor than I am the mother. I feel sorry for her. He has some sort of warped agenda here - he is the one that needs to be diagnosed and put out of business.</p>
<p>^^Cartera, this is exactly how I feel - this doctor exploited a sick woman to line his pockets. He needs to be put out of business, legally. People who send death threats to anyone have to be found and prosecuted.</p>
<p>I think Ms. Suleiman is deeply disturbed, but if she were my neighbor, I’d try my best to help.</p>
<p>My across the street neighbor has quads and two older kids. She’s been on Super Nanny (the cop with anger management issues) and she’s completely out of control. When she walks the kids to school, all you can hear is her screaming and raving. The neighbors all tried to help out and befriend her, but she had none of that. Point being, I’ve never met a kid I couldn’t love.</p>
<p>Do women have to go through any kind of pre-screening for In Vitro? </p>
<p>I agree - the doctor should be held responsible…“first, do no harm” is the major tenet of medical practitioners. His agenda is in question. The quadruplets mom is another patient - no medical insurance - now in a county hospital on bedrest. What was he thinking?</p>
<p>Octuplets mom has her own issues, but were the doctor’s motives based on monetary gain, rather than doing the right thing? It’s scary.</p>
<p>The question I have is how far does society go in trying to make it so she can keep all those babies and the rest of her kids? I don’t advocate swooping in and taking them away, but I do think they could be very happy living in a more sane environment. This will test many of our beliefs about the best interest of the children standard.</p>
<p>I don’t think the doctor did this just for monetary gain - he would get as much money producing one or two healthy babies. He has some sort of weird agenda - that’s why I question if he is using his own sperm.</p>
<p>Perhaps there is a double standard, and perhaps there isn’t. Either way, while in the ideal world courtesy, diplomacy, sensitivity, tolerance and chivalry would reign supreme, the other side of it is that first amendment rights exist too. We may not agree with some terminology, and we may feel that some of the comments, descriptors, terminology or phrasiology that people use are offensive or insensitive, the posters do, within limits of the TOS here, have the right to use these terms.</p>
<p>If an individual is in the public spotlight, whether by choice of their own or not, they will find themselves subject to comments by people of differing levels of scrutiny, curiosity, sensitivity, critique and commentary. While I might personally feel that the ‘sensitivity’ bar for making comments or using descriptors about politicians is different than for a person with, say, a medical, physical or mental health issue, and I might not agree with the comments posters made, or the adjectives they use (some written about Ted Kennedy, for example, were pretty brutal, if I recall) I think tolerance of the adjectives some posters might choose to use when they express their opinion is ok too. JMO, FWIW.</p>