I believe you’re using the term “cost” as a reference for “how much the average student pays”. If that’s the case, using my Swarthmore example:
$50k out of pocket + $75k per student from the endowment =
$125k cost per student (what they publish it costs)
Swat is an example on the high end, because they have a top-10 per student endowment. Other schools will spend less, but your first number $40k-$50k cost to attend, won’t change much.
Whenever I see “we spend X to educate students”, my first thought is that you are not spending that money directly on a student’s education. You are spending that money on capital projects and other expenses that don’t affect my student’s education as much as lures future students and donors to the school. Perhaps I am wrong and the numbers are kept separate, but it often feels disingenuous when they tout these numbers.
You can usually look up operating budgets separately. I note of course prior capital spending can benefit present students.
It’s usually total operating costs divided by #of students. With that said, no student avails themselves of everything on campus. Some use science labs, others use performance spaces or practice rooms, some use mental health counseling, some use shuttle services, others may ise the ice rink or the pool, none use every department or every professor. This is really why it’s so important to look at whether what’s offered is what you want. It doesn’t matter how much they spend if they aren’t spending on your interests.
But this whole thread is an exercise in showing that things like buildings (architecture, lab facilities, libraries, fanciness of dorms and cafeterias) are all contributors to the college “bundle.” People cross certain colleges off their lists because of these things. Saying they don’t matter or shouldn’t count towards cost is like saying a vacation in NYC “costs” the same whether you stay at the RitzCarlton or in a youth hostel. Because the “NYC” you get is the same either way.
Most directly, “cost of attendance” includes more than just tuition. Meal plan and form count, too. Not just the salary for your philosophy TA. The football stadium on tubas for the concert band also count.
College is more than calculus and poetry. And like it or not, if you are full pay at Bowdoin, you are only paying $88k out of a $114k bundle. They say so themselves:
“the actual cost of educating a student at Bowdoin is approximately $114,000, the endowment subsidizes every student, not just those receiving aid.”
The fundamental reality of this “total cost” conversation is that @KBdad and @vwlizard are correct in pricing the direct cost of an individual education, but that’s not readily available or often appealing. The bells and whistles are what creates differentiation. The college tour process is designed to show you all of the extras… the educational options are available in a database or spreadsheet or book.
But their valuation also contains biases. It assumes a 4-year residential college of average to above average reputation. If you look at the cost of an online education by state (in the northeast), the numbers suggest that for roughly $10k you can get an education from an accredited institution.
| State | Institution | Annual Tuition |
|---|---|---|
| Massachusetts | University of Massachusetts Boston | $15,132 |
| New Hampshire | Southern New Hampshire University | $9,900 |
| Connecticut | Charter Oak State College | $10,200 |
| Maine | University of Maine at Augusta | $8,640 |
| Vermont | Champlain College | $12,000 |
| Rhode Island | Rhode Island College | $9,008 |
| New York | SUNY Empire State College | $7,185 |
| Pennsylvania | Western Governors University | $7,452 |
| New Jersey | Thomas Edison State University | $7,926 |
| Delaware | Wilmington University | $11,430 |
| Maryland | University of Maryland Global Campus | $7,704 |
So isn’t everything over $10k “extra”? Isn’t that the cost of an experience?
As populations change and the value of the experience is questioned more, many schools are going to struggle to find customers. The perceived value of the product won’t support the cost of delivery, and those institutions will find themselves in the RIP thread.
Are the “total cost” at Swarthmore and Bowdoin and hundreds of other colleges too high… absolutely. Going to those schools is like driving a Bentley, when a bicycle will get you where you need to go. It’s about the experience of getting there and what others assume when they see you arrive that drives their value.
Please now move on from the discussion about endowment/costs, or start a new thread.
Thank you!
I think there is obviously still some interest in this topic, so I think I will create a new thread!
And here it is:
Thank you!
@TomSrOfBoston: " i had to remind myself that Brandies was only founded in 1948 and was largely built in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. That was not a good era for institutional architecture."
A lot of the schools founded or that grew greatly in size in the 50s, 60s, 70s found ways to stand out, maybe with one building that had it stand out or to work new architecture into the old. The USAFA has the chapel. U of Colorado developed the yellow stone/red roof style as it tore down some older buildings and built new ones. The engineering complexes (new and older) have their own styles but managed to shake off the Russian housing complex look that cement buildings often give off.
My daughter’s school was founded in 1958 and the older buildings are pretty small and boring, but the school has tried harder of late and also tries with non-building features. The outdoor swimming pool is gorgeous and right in the center of student life (between the dining hall and rec center). The Scott Center for Autism, which brings in the community for services and events and also has classrooms for students, is quite nice to look at. The library is modern and nice.
Florida Southern has 7 Frank Lloyd Wright structures (not all buildings, I know one is a fountain and the covered walkways are another), but it is sort of a combination of traditional southern architecture (red brick and big white columns) and the more modern. I’m not sure that worked for me but it was fun to walk through.
Brandeis was the first college I visited with D19 on her college tour of the east coast. D19’s instant impression was “this is just like high school”. Went off her list immediately. I made her stay for the tour but it did nothing to change her mind.
I have lived in the Boston area almost my entire life. I currently live about 6 miles from Brandeis but have never visited, other than driving down South St. a few times. So about a month ago I decided to visit the campus to see if all the negativity about its lack of beauty is true.
i had to remind myself that Brandeis was only founded in 1948 and was largely built in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. That was not a good era for institutional architecture. The buildings from that era certainly seem dated but well maintained. Buildings built since 2000 are mostly glass and seem to have wandered onto campus from one of the nearby high tech office parks. There is also the lack of a “center” to the campus: an original quad that remains the ceremonial heart of the campus.
Overall, I would give the campus a C grade, nice but uninspired.
As a measurable basis of comparison to other schools of potential interest, Lewis & Clark resides on 134 acres and Reed on 116.
Having been to both (as someone raised in the Northeast), Reed was surprising because of its being embedded into a common Portland neighborhood, in which the homes are on relatively small lots. L&C has more natural space around it, but given that there are 50% more people roaming a similar sized campus… It might be harder to find quiet spaces and alone time.
This was something we noticed when my kids were looking at LACs. Some of them felt quite a bit bigger than the number of students attending might lead one to expect, and some of them felt very small.
We noticed that the more compact the campus, the more energetic the place felt. Initially, we felt some places were livelier and more bustling. Then we realized that it had to do with the number of students using the part of the campus we were on.
I’m not sure this is sustained once you’re living there, but it could matter to some.
(Reposting) I always feel like I need to defend Brandeis on here. My daughter is going into her sophomore year and she LOVES it. The dorms and food are terrible, and she doesn’t care one bit. She’s so happy. I wish the school would get it together and make the “outside” match the “inside”. It’s such a warm, cozy place and is such a supportive environment, but the architecture just doesn’t give off that vibe at all.
With more schools, even top tier, focused here, you’d think they might lose their “sales” edge if they don’t join the arms race.
Or you’ll find yourself here.
Brandeis was the first university in the Boston area to be invited to join the Association of American Universities, after Harvard and MIT. If doctoral programs and related research are cut this membership could be at risk. Losing it would be a major embarrassment for Brandeis.