<p>Agree – I also have a middle schooler and now I am a more “aware” parent and can plan accordingly. Both my kids have gone through our public school “Gifted & Talented” (GT) program since 3rd grade – so I just assumed they would be on track to be accepted at selective schools. 4-5 other students from S’s school were admitted to U of M and only 2 came out of the GT program. The higher uw GPA wins the day. I have learned that the AP courses are not necessarily enriched learning, but simply “teaching to the test”. AP curriculum is not standardized and is developed by the individual school. Students are not learning how to be better writers, but they have to learn how to write in the “AP format”. The AP courses are “college level” courses, but they are taught by “high school” teachers. I think it is all a big scam and has spawned an entire industry for others to make money at the expense of our student’s real learning. Honors or IB courses are more enriching. AP classes are not dynamic. For instance, students are learning rote material in the AP Gov class instead of using current events to teach Gov – like the Supreme Court judicial review of the “Affordable Care Act”/Obamacare, the current Presidential campaign cycle, etc. And we have learned that even the AP students who get "A"s are getting tutored. Some students are taking the course in the summer so that when they get to school in the Fall, they receive "A"s in the class. The high school teachers then believe that they have some students performing at a high level by virtue of their teaching, but in reality, they have supplemented the classroom learning. My S has told me that his AP teachers don’t “teach” the material – I think they expect students to learn on their own time. So many of my S’s friends – bright students – get low grades on AP quizzes and tests that it makes you wonder what the purpose is of the AP curriculum. In reviewing many posts regarding college admissions, it is obvious that it is better for applicants to attend a high school where not many AP courses are offered. High schools should offer Honors courses for students who need advanced learning. The bottom line is that our high schoolers cannot enjoy their time in high school when they are solely focused on academics. I happen to believe that extracurricular activities should be looked at as co-curricular and that you need more than academics to develop the whole child and to build character. What good is it for us to develop of generation of “stat builders” and “test performers”? And the prize at the end of high school is that you get accepted to a great school and because you are middle or upper middle class, you get to pay 50-60K/yr. w/o any aid?</p>
<p>Midatlantic, you’ve really hit on some themes that resonate with me!
</p>
<p>My son, now at umich, attended a GT magnet school. I had assumed since all the kids there were 1-3% top of entire school board, they’d all be accepted to schools like umich, but then discovered that wasn’t how it worked. </p>
<p>For umich specifically, the “weights” of the applicant review attempt to equalize/compare apples to apples. So first, there’s GPA (the unweighted gpa has always held more weight, b/c AP is not equal in delivery) AND rigor – meaning they attempt to select student who do well with whatever is thrown at them. Then there’s quality and track record of the high school itself, for which they actually keep records – that bumps up in the case of a gt program. The emphasis on unweighted does not mean rigor doesn’t factor in – it does. But if a student focuses in an area they’re passionate about, they’re conscious of that too in couse selection. The theme is “what have you done with the opportunity you’ve been given.” this is not affirmative action, but this is often a socioeconomic reflection that allows the student body to be diverse – if kids in a rough and not rigorous school district have overcome challenges and a lack of support and do well whatever was thrown at them and were still in the top ten percent, yes that kid may well end up admitted, which on the surface, looks like great suburban students with a lot of advantages are passed over despite higher stats.</p>
<p>As you can see, these numerable variables make outcomes a lot less predictable. Lots of students with high GPAs who don’t take rigorous classes ARE passed over – so the solution is not to eschew the rigor to inflate the gpa. But HOW WELL you do in AP courses will be considered, as will grade inflation, so students seeking admission need to understand that unweighted performance will always be considered, overtly or covertly.</p>
<p>Beyond all of that, you then have to look at recommendations. Eg. My son’s unweighted GPA was from a tough school (rigor) and a little lower (3.67), and one of his recommendations essentially said he learned for learning sake, not the grade, and that in terms of character and intel he was in the top 2-5% of students this teacher had ever taught, etc. He won a scholarship — and it sure’s heck wasn’t based on his GPA. It was based on a combination of his gpa, high scores, contributions to his school and his field, and his recommendations.</p>
<p>Every student who has been wait listed had to have had a “admit or strong admit” recommendation on their app, and should realize that is an accomplishment in a pool of 40,000 kids. </p>
<p>For future students, the only lesson here is to make sure you communicate genuinely what sets you apart from other high-scoring applicants, because that’s the difference between “strong” admit and “highest admit” recommendations. And that distinction can mean the difference between getting a spot and not.</p>
<p>In short, whatever opportunities are pitched to you in life, knock em out of the park ;)</p>
<p>Parent of waitlisted senior chiming in on the weighted/unweighted thing. Every school we talked to said they unpack the gpa to pull out the non-academic subjects like phys ed and fine arts to see what the academic unweighted gpa is, then they fold in rigor etc. At every info session we attended, someone would ask the “is it better to do well in easier classes or not quite as well in the most rigorous classes” and the answer would always be “well, we want you to do well in the most rigorous classes,” followed by a statement about how they look at rigor and want to see students who have taken advantage of the most challenging courses available but of course they won’t penalize students who go to schools that don’t offer many APs or IB etc. That is why the counselor sends along the school profile with the counselor letter, to identify how many APs etc offered and in what subjects. We heard some variation from this at Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa and a host of LACs. The goal is for the student to be well-prepared for the demands of college classes, so presumably continuing to focus on the toughest classes your student can be successful in is important. </p>
<p>A brutal spring all around, and we passed through our days of mourning for a few schools.</p>
<p>My daughter was rejected yesterday. She was over it in about two minutes. Her stats were well above the school’s reported averages but not off the charts. She goes to an OOS competitive public school where AP classes are pushed on freshmen and a full IB program has just started. </p>
<p>What I have learned in the last six months while waiting for a decision from Michigan is:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Unweighted GPA is everything. Taking all Honors and AP classes probably hurt my daughter. Had she lightened up on her load a bit and had a 4.0, she might have been more appealing to Michigan. She took the most rigorous schedule possible for her school. </p></li>
<li><p>For an OOS student, you are competing with other students in your school and in your region. We live in the Chicago area where there are many excellent public and private schools. U of M will only take a certain number from this area. The students that were accepted from my daughter’s school won’t be going to Michigan. They also have acceptances to Harvard, MIT, Stanford, WashU, Northwestern, etc. Michigan was their backup school. Although many apply, very few attend Michigan from her school.</p></li>
<li><p>No university other than Michigan is as random and scattered in their admissions process. Other large public universities handle their applications in a much more organized and timely fashion. I got the sense that Michigan was playing a game by deferring so many students. It makes them look indecisive as a university. </p></li>
<li><p>Legacy doesn’t matter.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Luckily my daughter has many other options and most involve scholarship money. We are making our final campus visits this month and then she will decide. Michigan is a great school and I thought it would be a match for my daughter. Congratulations to everyone accepted! </p>
<p>I have an 8th grade son that was accepted into the IB program at our high school. It will include more AP classes than my daughter. I just don’t know if I want to go down that same road again.</p>
<p>imdmaverick… i put my deposit down at msu a while ago, a kind of figured i wouldn’t get into uofm. accepted the waitlist offer because i’m just the type of person who wants a final answer!</p>
<p>Below is official U of M Admissions statistical data web site link.
[Office</a> of Budget & Planning: Common Data Set](<a href=“Office of Budget and Planning”>Office of Budget and Planning)</p>
<p>Please compare 2007-8 and 2011-12 data.
Selection criteria have changed. GPA used to be IMPORTANT, but now it is marked as “VERY IMPORTANT” in selection process. Also note how ACT and SAT data for 25-75 percentile has went upward. And, 4 years ago 12% of enrolled students had GPA below 3.5, but in 2011-12, only 7%.</p>
<p>^^i don’t believe that at all…the 2007-2008 admissions cycle was just as bad as this one; kids with honors/AP’s throughout HS were deferred/waiitlisted while lower stats/ less rigor were accepted…</p>
<p>The only change is that they now use freshman year; used to ignore it…</p>
<p>Decision:Rejected
Applied to: College of engineering
Location: Texas, USA
ACT: 34 (33E 34R 36M 32S)
SATII: Math 2-800 Biology-670
PSAT: National Merit Scholar Finalist
GPA: 3.82 out of 4.0 (School does not rank, but believed to be right outside 10%)
Recs: College counselor was “highly impressed” when she read my teacher recs. Believe I got a pretty good one from her as well.
Essays: Definitely good, but not best sellers by any means
EC’s: Student Council(Class President), Varsity Swimming(Team Captain), Model UN Club(President), Club Swimming, Club Water Polo
Service: 250+ hours of mobile loaves and fishes
Feelings: Thought it would be a pretty good fit and that I could get in. I guess I was wrong. I would really appreciate some light shed on why I was rejected.</p>
<p>Why don’t all the OOS students with very impressive stats just apply to LSA get into LSA and then transfer to Engineering Sophomore year since Engineering is so competitive.</p>
<p>Applied November
Deferred February
Waitlisted on Saturday
Oh well! My parents wallets will be happy haha. :)</p>
<p>This entire process is so disorganized and arbitrary. I was accepted into several schools that are more selective, including Ivies, but was waitlisted by the CoE. I have a 3.9 GPA, 2340 SAT, 3x800 on subject tests, and really good extracurriculars. I wrote good essays and researched professors I would do research with. I am happy overall of course, it just kind of stings to get waitlisted by your backup. Sorry if I sound bitter- I have a lot of respect for the university as a whole.</p>
<p>Just for an update, I was waitlisted from NC with a 3.9 UW GPA, 31 ACT Comp, legacy, and okay essays, recs, and EC’s. I’m fine with it. ^^ I love UMichigan and all, but it’s been putting me under unnecessary stress. At least I can focus my energy on something else now. </p>
<p>I did accept a spot on the waitlist just for giggles. I’m probably going to UNC Chapel Hill. If I need to further my rendez-vous with UMichigan as a transfer next year, I shall.</p>
<p>But for now, I’m going to breathe easy. I suggest you guys do the same.</p>
<p>Responding to Midwestparentof4, I tend to agree with your points 2-4, but I think point number 1 depends on the kid. My first child was a dedicated student and by lightening her load a bit (2-3 APS a year as opposed to 4-5), she could excell in her grades and this made up for a less than stellar SAT and ended up giving her good options. My son is the absent minded professor type and lightening his load would only make him board, and I I think my hasve worsened rather than improved his fairly middling 3.65 uw gpa. However, his gpa was greatly enhanced by the fact that he took a very heavy AP load so had a quite high weighted average. Plus he is a good test-taker (2220 SAT), which we knew from the get go. So, it depends; I think there are no hard and fast rules. He was fortunate enough to be admitted to UM, but has decided on Wesleyan. A better personal fit for him.</p>
<p>Just to give my input as an accepted LSA student from a very competitive district in NJ.</p>
<p>Stats: 3.66 GPA, 4.22 Weighted, 32 ACTs (34 on math, english, writing) and 27 on science.</p>
<p>My twin brother was waitlisted from LSA, and he had much better stats than me. GPA: 3.9, weighted 4.6, 34 on ACT</p>
<p>I think since we’re twin brothers, it’s clear that great stats aren’t what Michigan is always looking for. In terms of EC’s, mine were much better than my brothers. I did take the hardest classes offered in my school, which is a plus. My school also has a very good reputation, and about 12-15 kids were accepted to Michigan this year. It really just depends what the admissions is looking for in a certain year… College admissions is a lottery that favors those with the right stats; but it’s no guarantee.</p>
<p>College admissions this year for top schools were brutal. Kids are also shotgunning all the top schools with apps to raise their odds of getting into at least one that makes it even harder to obtain admission. First child is a senior in an Ivy this year, and second was outright rejected from the Ivys she applied to this year with the same stats (including straight A’s with a full load of AP and honors classes and fantastic ECs from a highly regarded school district). The admissions process almost seems random at times when you look at stats reported on this website. She will be attending a great school that she really loves. My experience with AP classes in our school district is that they are not “taught to the test”, but rather were more challenging classes with the brightest students in the school. Doing well in them required discipline and time management skills that will be essential when they reach college. My oldest found himself well prepared to thrive in one of the hardest engineering schools in the country. So, my advice is to challenge yourself in high school, learn the skills needed to succeed when we parents are not around to help, and be prepared for an extremely competitive admissions process for all of the “better” schools.</p>
<p>Accepted to duke, Pomona, USC, Carnegie Mellon, waitlisted at Michigan… Weird</p>
<p>Here’s some interesting (yet depressing) stats and article from the Wall Street Journal:</p>
<p>[College</a> Waitlists Offer Little Hope - WSJ.com](<a href=“College Waitlists Offer Little Hope - WSJ”>College Waitlists Offer Little Hope - WSJ)</p>
<p>hello guys, i’m an international student and i submitted my app right before the deadline (2/1). Since I submitted my app at the last moment, will they also inform me my app decision at the last moment (4/16)? And i’m also curious abt the acceptance rate for the students that got their decision notification right before their garnered date…</p>
<p>Interesting, I was wait listed at Pomona last year but accepted to Michigan EA</p>
<p>Hey did everyone on deferred list already get email decision this weekend?</p>