I disagree with your post @doschicos and believe it is political and so I can’t really refute it without violating the forum rules.
It’s just fact that things like EPA standards, as one example, have been rolled back or removed.
It’s false as far as women’s rights and civil rights and I also could argue about the EPA standards.
So this all has gotten me thinking back to a conversation I had with some college classmates I didn’t really know well as we were waiting for class to begin. (The Structure of English, for those of you keeping score at home.)
We were talking about all the ways that our parents and grandparents would occasionally say or do sexist or racist stuff that we found horrifying, and one of the group said that it’s good we were less sexist et cetera than previous generations, but we’d probably end up being just as horrifying to our kids and grandkids as our parents and grandparents were to us.
And another of the group then said that maybe that was the point—the objective isn’t to reach perfection in a single bound, but to try to raise the next generation so that they would be scandalized by us, because that would mean we’d raised them to be a little bit better than we were, and thus we would have improved the world.
The more I’ve thought about it since then, the more I think she was right.
So maybe cut the Millennials and the Zoomers a little slack, and recognize that all of us olds really are deserving of their scorn, because we’ve raised them to be horrified by us, and in so doing we’ve improved the world—which is a good thing!
@Sue22,
Well said.
However, only a minority of Boomers were at risk of military conscription in the US – men born through 1952 (the Boomer generation is conventionally defined as those born 1946-1964). Even among those, many managed to become deferred or ineligible in various ways (see https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/vietnam-draft-dodger ).
“people whose worlds are being crushed at this very moment.”
I know a lot of millennials and can say this is not their worldview, thankfully. Just seems a bit dramatic. Every generation can put together a comprehensive list of successes and failures.
No entire generation is worthy of scorn.
So just as easily as millennials or gen Z can cringe at something grandma says that can be construed as racist, she can cringe at a millennial’s shout down and intolerance of a differing political view.
Scorn improves nothing.
S2 threw the “OK boomer” epithet at me last night. What was most amusing was that he was flabbergasted that I knew what it meant.
(He was complaining about corporate nonsense in his current job and I told him how I viewed the situation. He – ummmm – didn’t agree with my point of view.)
“I’ve always found these labels - Boomers, Gen X, millenials, etc. - pretty dumb.”
I second or third or whatever this. I think a lot is lifecycle stuff. Each generation is brought up with the expectations their parents and what ever media creates. My parents were brought up by those who went through the depression and WW2. I was brought up by parents who came of age in the 50’s and 60’s where the great fear was communism and nuclear war but overall a time of optimism, low unemployment and a sense we could accomplish great things. It was also a time when the racism was overt and systemic social change occurred. I grew up in a time relative peace, with many of the systemic social changes having occurred. It was the beginning of the computer age and the huge technological changes that would ultimately occur. My kids grew up in an age where information was instantly available and communication was at once easier and more private but also easier to disseminate and harder to protect.
I think as we age we tend to judge others (our parents and grandparents and they us) by the standards they grew up with. I’ve imparted my kids with many of my own values but they have grown up in a different world and see both problem and opportunities with different eyes. There values are their own. Just as my parents complained about the television that they embraced when programming was limited and regulated I complain about the communications technology that made sense to me in it’s infancy but I often perceive as being out of control and intrusive today. My kids have far more comfort in this area and I’m quite sure someday there kids will annoy them as well. I think the differences we see in generations are really our own biases. If we can have conversations about these differences then ultimately we will work them out. If we relegate ourselves to name calling then we will only become more divided.
Weren’t we boomers the peace and love generation, rejecting the materialism and consumerism of our parents, and determined to create a new world order?
How’d we do?
Did we live up to our ideals, or did we squander opportunities and resources we can never recover?
And yeah, This Be The Verse, by Philip Larkin. Always.
@alh, good poem! That kind of sums it all up. It’s just that each generation doesn’t expect the same characterization will apply to them because they’ll be DIFFERENT! And then when the next generation blames them for the world’s problems, they’ll be insulted (yep, applies to me).
Weren’t we boomers the peace and love generation, rejecting the materialism and consumerism of our parents, and determined to create a new world order?"
In many ways we became a hedonistic bunch. From backpacking hippies to McMansions. We took consumerism to a new level and many did it on credit. The birth control pill gave us “free” love while it can be argued our sense of responsibility was set aside for “if it feels good do it”. We did have the advantage of not having experienced the AIDs epidemic until later in our lives. Interestingly I think we grew up in a more dangerous world that we remember as safer. We grew up in a much dirtier world that we remember as cleaner. We have made things better but also can own some of the challenges we have brought on ourselves and younger generations. I am predicting our children will be having very similar experiences in 20-40 years.
Never fear, boomers. I predict that the new financial instruments being contemplated by the social media/tech companies will be a disaster, and the kids of Millennials can chide them for their profligate ways. hahahahaha
I read an article a week or two ago, I believe it was in USA Today, that looked at the OK BOOMER statement with respects to employment. The assertion was that many Millennials are using the statement in the workplace as a way of saying “get out of the workforce so I can get promoted”. In theory this would make sense as boomers are retiring later and clogging up many org charts.
The article went on to give 2 examples of Millennials that sought other employment because their industry was too clogged with older workers. The first example was teaching where the average age (in the example given) was around 54 years old and the second example was a union office where the average age was 51 years old. These examples caused me to disregard the entire OK BOOMER response within employment.
First neither complaint is against the boomers, those averages fall directly to Gen X (realizing in an average there will be some above and below the average). Second, and more important to me, is what are those in their early 50’s (which includes me) supposed to do? The OK BOOMER response is I need to retire so the millennial can get promoted/make more money. While I would like nothing more than to retire and live comfortably that is not a reality for the vast majority of the workforce and would lead to more of the issues the millennials seem concerned with. Should I be forced out of the workforce right now my 2 children would be saddled with massive student debt and I would most likely downsize my household, taking away already scarce lower income housing.
Obviously I read this article through my own bias but I walked away with a much harsher view of the OK BOOMER statement. The article left me of the opinion that the Millenials are truly selfish and don’t care about the wealth or welfare of their parents generation and are only concerned about themselves. The take away (for me) was get out of our way because we need the jobs and the money, you have served your purpose and we no longer care about you or your well being.
Obviously this is not the attitude of most millennials but by trying to tackle many different issues with a 2 word retort shuts down needed dialog and reinforces many of the stereotypes brought up earlier, specifically it is lazy.
It’s an implied dismissal.
I wouldn’t be particularly offended to get an “OK, Boomer” retort because I wouldn’t take it personally. But the part that is offensive about the retort in general is that is supposes that all boomers are alike. We are not. All women are not alike, all immigrants are not alike, all athletes are not alike, all millennials are not alike. So telling someone “I don’t see you as an individual I see you as an indistinguishable element of a homogeneous group” is probably insulting. But hard to take personally.
This would be my retort if someone said this to me IRL. “Ok, what?”. Then just look at them and wait for their response. Put it back on them to open meaningful dialogue.
@iaparent, in an IMO otherwise intriguing analysis, includes the following:
I think this part of your analysis falls apart—Gen-X isn’t of traditional retirement age yet, whereas most (though not all yet!) of the Boomers are. If the core issue is people not retiring at the ages they used to (which is certainly the case in both K–12 and especially postsecondary education but not so much for engineering, the sectors I have the most opportunity for observation), then Gen-X is exempt for another decade.
People who were born in 1955 through 1964 aren’t retirement age. That’s about half of the age range for boomers. So I wouldn’t say “most” are retirement age, even if you use 65, which is low these days.
Honestly I haven’t heard “OK Boomer” spoken IRL. At my work, if anyone said that to another co-worker, they would probably be written up for sure.
My kids usually say “you are so old, dad” to my H whenever he said something…before their time. I am fine being called old by my kids. Somehow being called old isn’t the same as “name calling”, or boxing it into a certain stereotype, or has a negative connotation as “OK Boomer”.