Oldest or youngest in their class?

Parent Cafe
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<p>I have 3 S and our cutoff is Oct 1. I held all 3 boys back cuz at that time our schools were known for holding back immature, active boys.
Two oldest are in college and youngest will be high school senior. It all worked out well except youngest two especially have been “ready” to leave for college earlier. All three have had friends in their grades plus older and younger. All three received driver’s licenses earlier than peers and drove their friends around till they received their own licenses. All three did terrifically academically. Generally my H & I are pleased that they started a bit later esp cuz most of their friends in public school tended to be the older, more mature, and more successful
kids. That’s not to say there were no teenage issues/problems with them! </p>

<p>S#1 went to private school for Kindergarten and 1st grade. He wasn’t reading in that first grade so when we switched him to public school we decided to keep him back although private school teacher said he should go into 2nd grade. Public school principal said he’d be the very oldest in one grade or very youngest in the other grade; also said that younger grade was a nicer mix of kids who cooperated, were helpful, empathetic. So we put him in younger grade. He blossomed and learned how to read! Eventually became hs val, won ton of awards, and went to a HYPS where he’s taken off some time to work and is graduating 3 years late but feels he’s grown by his experience.</p>

<p>Son #2 is April baby and had many nursery school friends who were year younger. He always was small and hyperactive so we started him late in kindergarten. Teachers never knew he was older cuz he was so immature. He was diagnosed with diabetes at age 8 and late start in school gave him time to adjust. For whatever reasons – and age is only probably one – he hated last year of high school and would’ve been thrilled to have left earlier.</p>

<p>Son #3 is a June bday and many of his friends were summer/fall babies whose parents started them late so we did as well. Jury still out on this kid although he was an athletic star till bad knee injury in 8th grade
and now he is shining in other activities. We’ve talked at length and he’d love to graduate early but is not a “genius” and because he’s so social wants to experience senior year with his friends.</p>

22

<p>

I really think you are mistaken in second-guessing yourself that way. If your son, as mature and capable and advanced as he is, wanted to accellerate he would have let you known in no uncertain terms. Yes, he feels conflicted – but he obviously also knows in his heart that the 4 years spent in high school and still living at home were best for him…</p>

<p>It’s a pet peeve of mine when people tell me that my daughter has been kept from realizing her “full potential” because she wasn’t accellerated – though fortunately I haven’t heard it in a few years. But as I noted above, she made her own choice at age 7 - and what that gave her was a lot of free time at the K-8 level, since she never had to study. Yes, the academic part of school was often boring, but she loved school socially - she tells me that she never tires of being around people. She had time for hours upon hours of dance classes and performances – and in high school she was able to take a semester to do a foreign exchange, an opportunity that might not have been there if she were younger. I was wary of the idea of doing the exchange as an 11th grader anyway… I certainly never would have allowed it if she were 15 instead of 16 at the time. Yes - my daughter also stands out as seeming more mature than the others – every kid and teacher in the school seems to think she is graduating and they are amazed to find out that she still has another year. She’s feeling somewhat antsy… but when I broached the subject of an alternative, early transition from high school to college… I could see her getting nervous, and she quickly changed the topic to how much she was looking forward to some of the classes she is enrolled in next year.</p>

<p>If I had accellerated my daughter - or if your son had been able to make the cutoff – things would have been different. But different is not necessarily better, and part of the reason that your son is so mature and confident is that he is also really secure and comfortable with himself. </p>

<p>So my point is simply: don’t kick yourself, and don’t buy into this “reaching potential” stuff. Doing X by a certain age does not equate with “potential” no matter how much we parents like to brag about our kids early accomplishments, because it is not a failure or missed opportunity if the same thing is accomplished a year or 2 later. So your son’s “potential” is exactly what you see now, expressed in his maturity and strong leadership skills – if he is age 17 then he would still be 17 in any case. It sounds like he has had plenty of opportunities to take accellerated courses and college classes - and he has had the best of both worlds, because he has the athletics and social aspects of high school, too. </p>

<p>Again – I speak from the experience of basically having cut my childhood short by 2 years. It is what I wanted and things turned out o.k. — but I won’t ever get those 2 years back. I would never tell a parent whose kid was dead set on skipping a grade or graduating high school a year early to hold the kid back – I really do believe in following the kid’s lead – but I really do think that socially, most kids are better off if they are in high school when they are high school age. And in the long run, it is our social comfort level that really matters in terms of personal happiness.</p>

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<p>It’s so hard to tell in early elementary school where a kid belongs. I’ve just been more comfortable with adults since I was in grade school… I think some kids are just ready for something bigger from the very beginning, and it’s hard to provide that in elementary, middle, and high school. On the flipside, my brother is clearly one of the least mature of his seventh grade class; though highly intelligent, he really would have benefited from being held back a year due to his emotional immaturity. To each his/her own.</p>

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<p>I was born in September, and I skipped 4th grade, so I am the youngest in my class, but I don’t think it’s affected me. In the 5th grade, it took some adjusting to the new people and new classes: this had no long-term impact, though, on me. (at least I don’t think!) I’m in all GT, and I kind of wish I had skipped another grade since now my studies seem a bit slow. I would tell parents that if they feel their child is ready, they should go ahead and let the kid skip a grade. My school fought viciously to keep me from skipping a grade, citing social problems and my age. I’m glad that I skipped because it’s just been better for me overall.</p>

<p>It hasn’t affected my relationship with my parents. I’ve always been a slightly withdrawn, distant child; not suicidal or depressed by any means, just not as talkative as others. I do not believe that skipping a grade has really changed the relationship.</p>

<p>In terms of friends, I’m friends with kids in my class who are 2 whole years older than me, as well as those a year older. They don’t think much of my age, so it’s not a big deal that I’m younger.</p>

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<p>I fret over the larger question here that Calmom raises. IF you have a kid who is meeting intellectual milestones faster than grade average - music, coordination, writing their name, learning bodies of knowledge, mastering abstract skills, etc. - but IF that kid is not physically equivalent to the kids who are at his level, then WHAT is the right path?</p>

<p>My S fit so many parameters of gifted (hate that word, their existence is a gift). Sang early, talked early, wrote his name early, swam early, mastered origami early, was always called out as smartest kid in class by other kids. But we sent him to an alternative school where they did very untraditional academics and focused more on social development. They told us in pre-school he was ready for 2nd grade work. We never moved him ahead, as they said he wasn’t delayed socially at all, just right in line with his age group.</p>

<p>Now he is in a more traditional Catholic high school, although it’s a very liberal one. He will probably do all Honors and AP and whatnot, but due to his alternative school experience, won’t be one of the kids finished with BC Calc by end of junior year. He also didn’t take any language, so he’s started Latin as a freshman. I know it’s obnoxious to keep harping on this, but he gets the highest grade in the class easily. (God I’m glad none of you know me IRL. It’s sort of insufferable to say this stuff.)</p>

<p>Here’s the question if any of you have patience to answer:</p>

<p>HAVE WE DONE S A DISSERVICE BY NOT ACCELERATING? </p>

<p>Key final piece of info? He is reasonably late to puberty, still growing, slight, handsome, but not one of the buff boys who get girlfriends freshman year.</p>

<p>WHAT MATTERS MORE, INTELLECTUAL ACTIVITIES THAT ARE A CHALLENGE OR SOCIAL SITUATION THAT FOSTERS SOCIAL SUCCESS?</p>

<p>He is the kind of kid who has friends, but never really seems to need them.</p>

<p>All opinions welcome.</p>

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<p>Alumother… I think that as long as he is happy where he is, a year ahead would not make that much of a difference. For me, the skipping was made more socially difficult by the fact that I was a good 6- 10 inches shorter than most in my classes, and by the fact that I was bused to the middle school after skipping fourth grade to attend 6th grade social studies and language arts classes. But then again, I just have never gotten along terribly well with those my age; I was pretty much the “weird kid in class” who everyone liked to make fun of wherever I went. I know that my social unhappiness and the two year gap in my math knowledge undoubtedly negatively affected my schoolwork. He can always do CTY- type summer programs, take advanced classes, and just pursue interests on his own for more intellectual stimulation. As long as he’s socially happy and doing well in school, I personally don’t think skipping him a year would have done him any great service.</p>

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<p>Alumother, I think there are ways of accomplishing acceleration without skipping a grade. It sounds like socially and physically, your son “belongs” in his current grade but could possibly benefit from academic acceleration. </p>

<p>As I related in my post about my own kids, we did not skip grades once they were in school. My younger child already had an official early entrance into K so was a year younger so to speak and the other child also was the youngest in her grade. Being the youngest was a nonissue for both my girls socially so the social piece, or even the physical one you mention, were not of issue here. But we chose to not keep skipping grades (albeit, now the youngest is graduating a year early on top of the early K entrance). However, no matter WHAT grade we called our kids, they both required acceleration in their coursework. This was done in various ways and did take advocating. One is to skip a level in a subject. Another is to take certain courses with grades above your own. Another was independent study. Another was long distance courses through CTY. Through these various ways, we were able to accomodate their need for acceleration without any further grade skipping. When I say grade skipping, I mean changing their grade level status but they were in classes with other grades above theirs in some things. </p>

<p>If you have any questions about these things my kids did, which I did not get that specific about, just ask. I see your son’s issue here as not needing to change grade standing but needing to be accelerated in academics, possibly in certain subject areas. This likely can be accomplished (though as I said, the advocating and initiative had to come from us, as it did not come from the school and just took brainstorming ideas to accomodate the kids’ individual needs).</p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>D was born in May so it wasn’t much of an issue. The majority of kids in her class have always been older, but there are several who are younger. At one point, early in her elementary education, the teachers suggested we have her skip a year. DH and I decided we really didn’t want her to do that. For a number of reasons, we didn’t want her in a class of kids who would be considerably older than DD. Although she is very social and has always been as comfortable around adults as children, we just thought it could cause some problems in the future … i.e. classmates dating, driving, etc. when she wouldn’t really be old enough to do so. We decided if she became bored (which she did), we would reconsider or put her someplace where she could work ahead. We chose the latter and placed her in a private school for gifted children. To make a very long story short, the school closed down after the head mistress stole all the money and took off to the Caymen Islands (she’s currently in prison :slight_smile: ). It was the middle of a school year and we had no other option at that point but to put her back in to the public school system. Her first day back, she came to the car after school, broke down, and said “Once again, I’m bored, bored, bored!” She had been placed in the magnet program, but it was a pull out program and still wasn’t we considered to be the optimal thing for her. We looked around and decided to put her at a K-8 Catholic school that grouped students according to ability. Her particular class worked two years ahead. She really thrived there. We moved to a different county with a wonderful public school system and she decided she wanted to go to the local high school. She already had lots of friends here (just one county over) and it has worked out very well.</p>

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<p>Daughter is in the middle by having a July bithday ,in NYC you can go to kindergarten with a birthday up to Dec 31 of that year (I have a neice who was born New Years Eve so she has always been the youngest). </p>

<p>Daughter as always gone to school where the emphasis was on collaborated education (in addition to multi age grouping in elementary school). </p>

<p>In elementary school Principal was a Bank Street person and the majority of teachers were either Bank Street ot Teacher’s College graduates. Almost every new teacher came to the school after doing their student teaching there.</p>

<p>From K-5, D had the same teacher for 2 years because the school did realize that some kids go through their whole lives as either the “youngest” or "oldest’ kids in the class and this way they get to be both. The “younger” kids will spend a year as the older kids, and be mentor to them.</p>

<p>In addition the school beleives that it takes the whole school year to really get to know the child and ususally by this time they are moving on to the next grade and a new teacher. The second year with the teacher gives the teacher an opportuntiy to hone in on the needs of the child.</p>

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<p>Our oldest son has a May birthday and went to pre-first which was designed for kids that had finished Kindergarten but weren’t quite ready for first grade. That school district has since discontinued that practice. We moved when son was going into fourth grade to a district that had a Dec 1 cut-off so our son is now older then many other kids in his grade. He just turned 18 and will be a senior in the fall.</p>

<p>I think he would have struggled the first couple of months in first grade but would have done fine after that. His best friends are in college. If we had a do-over, we would have just put him in first grade. The only advantage is that he was able to go to Philmont boy scout ranch twice, something that is pretty rare.</p>

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<p>

There’s a flip side of that, at least with girls – as an accellerated kid I felt tremendous social pressure to be dating when my classmates were – and so basically I was an 11 year old doing what 13 year olds do… then a 14 year old doing what 16 year olds do —and then in coed college dorm at 16 doing exactly what all the 18 and 19 year olds were doing. Need I get more graphic? I mean, the last thing that I wanted was for anyone to perceive me as naive or unsophisticated … and I can assure you that that was never anyone’s perception. Now that was the 60’s and the 70’s, when free love was in vogue… and if you had asked me then, I would have said, truthfully, that I was having a lot of fun. But do I want that for my daughter???
Well, my problem with d. is that she was precocious enough with boys without that extra nudge of peer pressure from more physically mature classmates. </p>

<p>On another note, Splashmom – I also had the experience of a private school administrator running off with all the money and shutting down the school. :frowning: In my case it ended in bankruptcy – no jail - and we parents were able to recover maybe 10 cents on the dollar for our prepaid tuitions, about 2 years down the line.</p>

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<p>I’ve had a similar experience, calmom… and if you’re smaller/not as physically mature as the other girls (as I was and am), it can be very isolating.</p>

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<p>Yes, I was also very small - plus late to puberty as well. And my daughter - who is the typical age for her grade - also was very petite, always the smallest in her class, and also late to puberty (though not quite the late bloomer I was).</p>

<p>One thing I did was encourage my daughter to participate in activities where her petite size would be an advantage - gymastics, acrobatics, ballet. I always felt so small and weak - the last one picked for any team sport. But my daughter was powerful and amazing ;)- she would be showing off doing backflips on the playground, and dancing en pointe on stage as a soloist with the youth ballet. </p>

<p>There is a big difference in the level of self-confidence and self-esteem my daughter now has. She was one of the first kids in her grade to get a license - many of her older friends don’t drive - so she is often the one doing the driving, and she just feels more grown up than many of her peers. But she isn’t frustrated by that - she feels empowered and very independent. So I can really see where the social and emotional maturity comes in – it is reflected in very strong leadership skills. I was always smart and able to do well in school – but my daughter was the one voted “most likely to succeed” by her 8th grade graduating class.</p>

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<p>I think you hit it, calmom, where you wrote:

:)</p>

<p>Our daughter’s b’day is mid November, she’s one of the youngest in her grade and it’s never been a problem. Here the public school cut off date is some time in December, private schools fall in at September or October usually. Daughter started at a private school who placed her even though she was a November b’day. It’s all worked out very well for her. Each child is so different.</p>

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<p>Massachusetts’ cut-off is September 1. Both kids were at the younger end of the spectrum (late May and late July), but it didn’t seem to be a detriment. They had started out in Montessori pre-school and K-G where they thrived, so both were ready academically for first grade. Emotionally, S didn’t mature until junior/senior year of high school and has done well in college. D has handled schoolwork and friends well from the beginning, but then there’s also the gender gap!</p>

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<p>The puzzling thing to me is: how do you know at age 5 how a kid is going to develop re: social maturity? I think you can see some “intellectual” signs but social signs? For heaven’s sake, they’re 5!</p>

<p>This is such a timely question because tomorrow is both of my kids’ birthday (born 3 years apart to the day). Started school in Maryland with a Dec. 31 cut-off so they were exactly middle. When we ultimately moved to Indiana, the cut-off was June 1 which they make by 2 days. So they are very much the youngest. Both are somewhat socially less mature than their grade peers but at age 5 there was absolutely no indication of that - quite the opposite. And maybe that’s more a function of living in Indiana where more of their grade peers are older and it wouldn’t be as noticeable if we still lived in Maryland. </p>

<p>Moot point. Hindsight is 20/20 and we just have to live with the decision we made at the time and it wasn’t even a discussion item at that point.</p>

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<p>My oldest son was born at the end of Aug. with a Sept. 1 cutoff. He is very bright and big for his age, but had trouble with transitions and was somewhat socially immature. We hemmed and hawed. I finally realized that if he had been born 3 days later, we wouldn’t be having the discussion and he would have had to wait the year. He also has a very mild but very obvious physical disabililty and we figured it would help him to be older when dealing with other kids over the issue. He is now 21 and we never had regrets. His best friend through most of school was a full year younger than him. Over the years, most of his friends were kids who were 8-12 months younger. He never really complained of being bored in school and finished at the top of his class. For awhile, he thought seriously about graduating a year early, and that would have been find with us. We figured it was a way to give him time when he was younger and give it back when he was older and didn’t need it as much. He decided to stay put for various reasons. </p>

<p>As a middle school counselor, I see kids all over the place. For most kids, I don’t know if it really matters all that much. Often I see the cohort having an awful lot of influence. Sometimes I see kids who I think would do better in the class ahead or behind, but mostly because of basic personality, not because of age. And I agree with that parents have to rely on their basic knowledge of the child to make their decisions. No one knows your kid better than you.</p>

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<p>Should we look at oldest or youngest in the class simply from chronological stand point when we know all kids are not parented the same nor do they have the same experiences which also has to do with their level of maturity and or readiness.</p>

<p>A student who is an only child born at the end of the year may have the same or higher level of emotional maturity as a middle or youngest child born earlier in the same year.</p>

<p>My youngest sister is a december child who greatly benefitted from having older siblings because she wanted to do the same things that every one else was doing so she did read , write and was socially adept despite being one of the youngest students in the class (having 8 older siblings she really had no choice).</p>

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<p>my mom had a early winter birthday and they started her in january- but they don’t do that anymore- sounds kind of confusing anyway.</p>

<p>I was a month early- birthday was in early October- plus I was small for my age, but I read so they started me in school- twas boring- see dick run? I would have liked mixed grades better cause then I might have been able to do more interesting work even though socially I was behind.</p>

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<p>D. started k. with early Sept b’day in spite of the fact that the school had a Sept 1 cutoff.
Continued into 1st grade with the class, but by the end, I was unhappy with the placement. The girls were tough on her. She was having some verbal problems, word retrieval stuff especially. And she was in no hurry to grow up.
When the school said something along the lines of :" well, if it was a boy, you would certainly hold him back, but with a girl…" my feminist hackles got up, and I was all over… “so its ok for a girl to be the youngest and the weakest, but not a boy…”
She was thrilled with her second year of first grade, and will often talk to parents considering what she calls “her gift of a year”, encouraging them to do it.
She continued at the top of her class evermore, and yeah, she is starting Yale in Sept.
Till this day, I have never heard a parent regret holding a kid back. I have only heard regrets that they did not. Many. A trusted friend and educator once called correct placement the best present you can give a kid. Please feel free to PM me if I can encourage you more on this topic.</p>