<br>
<br>
<p>What makes you so sure? Because they never tested positive? Because they are Americans? We already know that those reasons often turn out to be bogus. Are US swimmers somehow immune to the temptations that other US athletes have fallen to?</p>
<p>“vast majority”----it only takes the minority of one to win the gold.</p>
<p>coureur–I think most of the swimmers are clean too-mainly because they are consistent with their results and success like I said earlier. When you have the big rises and falls in times is when it gets suspicious. I don’t think all US athletes are clean, however.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You are so wrong. The Chinese girl won the world championships in 200-IM in almost identical fashion last year. It seems to me you didn’t even bother to do any research. If this were some American girl facing allegation, I am sure you’d have done at least some due diligence.
Apparently, the fact that she was 23 seconds slower than Lochte in the first three legs doesn’t mean anything. Lochte is known to push all out right from the beginning and, as shown in this Olympics, not exactly among the best for closing speed! Ye is known for her closing. </p>
<p>She just won the 200-IM by half a second. Again, she came from behind in freestyle although this time, she’s virtually even with the Australian swimmer to begin with and her freestyle leg was only half-second faster. This provides a logical explanation for her 400-IM performance: At 400-IM, she was further behind Elizabeth before the last leg. Her “superhuman” leg in the 400-IM was possible because she swam the first three legs conservatively. </p>
<p>When Sun Yang got his 1,500-m world record, people were commenting how his final 50 was faster than Lochte’s when Lochte swam his 200. If it weren’t for the fact that he’s trained with the legendary Aussie coach, some people would be saying that’s “impossible”. It turns out it was also faster than Sun’s own final 50 in his 200-m by more than a full-second. How you pace can make a HUGE difference in your closing speed!! </p>
<p>I am not even a coach or anything. It’s therefore particularly disturbing for that US coach to basically accuse her without any proof. He’s known to dislike the Chinese so I guess it was a golden opportunity for him to lash out.</p>
<p>[China</a> swimmer Ye Shiwen clean, says BOA boss Moynihan](<a href=“http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/latest_news.php?nid=39553]China”>http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/latest_news.php?nid=39553)</p>
<p>“How you pace can make a HUGE difference in your closing speed!!”</p>
<p>My brother was a competitive swimmer…this is exactly what he told me last night. But NBC needs an “evil nemesis” to work up the audience and invariably plays up this sort of suspicion.</p>
<p>I hate the NBC coverage.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, she swam the FINAL part of the race faster than a top male swimmer who was swimming a deplorably lousy time for a top male swimmer for that part of the race.</p>
<p>If baseball was still an Olympic sport, do you think the US players are clean?
My son has 3 former HS teammates who are playing for the MLB and many more who played in the minor leagues for many years.ALL of them said doping is rampant (including one friend who was suspended for many games because he tested positive) and testing is pre-scheduled so everyone knows the date.</p>
<p>I also think it is naive for us to think that the athletes truly represent the US. They really represent corporations. How many athletes can you count that haven’t received any sponsorship by corporations? And do we trust anyone where big money is involved?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I agree about accountability. All individuals and organizations, including governments, that are involved in doping should be held accountable.</p>
<p>But if you are among the many who believe that private enterprise is far better and more efficient at getting things done than is a government bureau, then you’ve got to figure that here in the US our doping program is even better that what the Chinese have going. After all, ours is a private enterprise; theirs is a government-run program.</p>
<p>With respect to Olympic doping, the only way in which not having a government doping program here is the US makes us any better as a nation than China, East Germany, or the old Soviets is not that our athletes are a lot cleaner but that we have a better, more virtuous government. But so what? We already knew that.</p>
<p>
What do you mean when you refer to “the Chinese?” Do you mean athletes from the PRC (which is what I mean), or do you mean people of Chinese ethnicity? Are you accusing him of being a racist or of disliking China? Please be clear, because they aren’t the same thing.</p>
<p>I did a little reading, and there were some interesting articles about cheating scandals in athletic contests within China. Perhaps this cuts against the idea of government-sponsored cheating.</p>
<p>Of course, every now and then, someone uncorks a monster performance. See Bob Beamon’s record in the long jump in the 1968 Olympics that wasn’t beaten for 23 years.</p>
<p>I’m Chinese, but I make as much fun of the Chinese age and dope cheating as anyone. That said, Yi Shiwen’s time really wasn’t that suspicious. Doping doesn’t shave 5 seconds off your personal best - especially if you consider that nobody starts doping only the year before the Olympics (so the major boosts would’ve come much earlier).</p>
<p>What people are forgetting is that she’s 16. There’s a lot of body and musculature growth at that age to begin with. Hell, there’s plenty of basketball players who spurt 3-4 inches after freshman year of college, let alone high school, and we don’t accuse them of abusing HGH.</p>
<p>If you want tangible proof, just compare Missy Franklin’s results from when she was 15 and 16 in the 200m backstroke - it dropped by over 2 seconds in less than a year and she broke the national record. Which is almost the exact same proportion Yi Shiwen dropped over double the distance.</p>
<p>All I know about whether Ye’s performance was suspicious was what I read in the press, and one guy with expertise got press for expressing doubts. Others feel differently. The history of doping in the Chinese swim team adds to the suspicion, which is really unfair to her if she’s clean. But the blame for that goes to those who did the earlier doping.</p>
<p>I feel sorry in the same way for any cyclist who isn’t doping. Everybody is going to assume otherwise.</p>
<p>They Chinese mindset of creating Olympic stars is imbedded in the government. They have scouts who look for little kids, scoop them up and start training for the olympics at age as young as four. They are put in either sports schools with some academics or just in sports programs where they train all day. Whether they want to or not.</p>
<p>There are rumors of selective mating to create better athletes. They have doped players. They force four-year olds to train for hours a day. Taken from their families.</p>
<p>Breeding athletes wouldnt be a stretch. History shows societies have used human selective breeding before.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>People should be very cautious about casting suspicion on a performance based primarily on the excellence of the performance itself. That’s a knife that cuts both ways. </p>
<p>Consider once again the case of Missy Franklin. It’s been reported in the media that she swims only about half the distance each week in training that her Olympic competitors normally do. Yet last night, within the space of about 15 minutes, she successfully raced two world class races. She qualified for the final in one Olympic event and then came back and won a gold medal another Olympic event. And in the process significantly lowered her own best time, broke the Olympic record, and nearly broke the world record. While training only half as hard as everybody else. All at age 17. That’s impossible! That’s super-human! (whispers: Hmmm… must be dope). </p>
<p>See what I mean? Be cautious about using Yi Shiwen’s performance as evidence of doping. The Chinese could just as legitimately use that argument against us.</p>
<p>I think the better approach is assume that both Missy Franklin and Yi Shiwen are marvelous athletes and we are lucky to get to see them. Allow both of them to enjoy their Olympic success free from insults until such time as we’ve got some real evidence.</p>
<p>Hunt,</p>
<p>[BBC</a> Sport - London 2012: How are teen stars re-writing Olympic record books?](<a href=“http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/19062851]BBC”>London 2012: How are teen stars re-writing Olympic record books? - BBC Sport)</p>
<p>Ye Shiwen wasn’t the only one that shaved few seconds in one year. In fact, it’s not even that uncommon</p>
<p>Nor was she the only female swimmer that swam faster in the last 50 than Lochte. Last year in Shanghai, Rebecca Adlington had a final 50 split of 28.91, two hundredths of a second faster than Ye Shiwen’s closing split. Nobody questioned how she was able to swim a “man’s” split at the end of a gruelling 800 free.</p>
<p>Yet, John Leonard called Ye’s last 50 “impossible”. I read somewhere that John has been a critic of the Chinese swim team. I don’t know if he’s racist. Given that he called that impossible while some other girl has swam that fast before after swimming for 750 meters, it does seem like he got an ax to grind.</p>
<p>More on the double-standard: nobody says anthing negative about the 15-year-old Ruta Meilutyte that won the 100m breaststroke and she’s the one that’s coming out of nowhere (she was not in the world championsip). That girl shaved over 2 seconds over 100 meters in the slowest stroke. That’s more dramatic than 5-second drop at 400 IM.</p>
<p>Forget about Ye Shiwen.
Here is a real superhuman swimmer (from the past), much more amazing than Ye:</p>
<p>Age 14 (1986): 400 Free-4:16.74; 800 Free-8:38.07
Age 15 (1987): 400 Free-4:05.40 (World Rec); 800 Free-8:22.44 (WR)
Age 16 (1988): 400 Free-4:03.85 (WR); 800 Free-8:17.12 (WR)</p>
<p>Her name: Janet Evans, who, in two years (at the tender age of 16), shaved 13 seconds off her 400m free and 21 seconds off her 800m free. And she was small and did not even look like an elite swimmer. Some of her world records lasted well into mid-2000s, the high-tech suit era.</p>
<p>Most baseball fans think Ryan Braun does PEDs as do I will we ever find out? Probably not</p>
<p>It seems like gradually more and more people from around the world have come out to defend Ye Shiwen:</p>
<p>[IOC</a>, FINA and others defend Chinese swimmer Ye - 2012 Olympics - SI.com](<a href=“http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/olympics/2012/07/31/fina-ioc-defend-chinese-swimmer.ap/index.html#]IOC”>http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/olympics/2012/07/31/fina-ioc-defend-chinese-swimmer.ap/index.html#)</p>
<p>I cannot bear to read this thread anymore. Seriously guys, GROW UP.</p>
<p>Let me just focus on one example: the 16-year-old swimmer Ye Shiwen. </p>
<p>Why is the media accusing her of doping? Is it because a 16 year old Chinese girl beat a big American man? Well, guess what, the US is the only one complaining! It may not seem that way, but we live in the US, so the US media obviously drones out other media’s voices. Lots of countries like Great Britain, Australia, etc. have already expressed that Ye Shiwen is clean based on drug testing results and that people shouldn’t make assumptions without proof. In fact, the Chair of the IOC testing committee came out and spoke to the media and said, “Based on our drug testing results, we have found no evidence that Ye Shiwen is doping. She is clean and there should be no suspicion or doubt surrounding her win. It is very unwise to outright assume that her time must be tainted in some way, especially when there is no evidence.”</p>
<p>Why do people doubt her? Is it this mentality: “How can the Chinese produce top swimming athletes? I thought all they were good for was table tennis. Swimming is a real sport; you can’t possibly expect them to do well in a sport that so focuses on strength do you?” </p>
<p>Well, has anyone explored this question: China is the third largest country in the world, one of the most powerful, and has the largest population—WHY CAN’T THEY PRODUCE TOP SWIMMERS?</p>
<p>This whole thing reminds me of 2008—when the US accused the Chinese gymnasts are underage. Well, if that were the case, their medals would have been stripped of them. In fact, not only did they get to keep their medals, but they also came out clean. Intensive background searches run by numerous committees have all come to the conclusive fact that the Chinese gymnasts are 16 and above. The hype slowly faded, but the tainted notion that the “Chinese are cheating” did not, and it is unfortunately still imbued in the minds of Americans today.</p>
<p>The US has a huge history of using steroids, as does other big countries like Great Britain, Russia, Japan, China, etc. But advanced technological methods have quickly overturned results and returned medals to their rightful owners. When there is no proof, horrible accusations against brilliant athletes just make us seem bitter.</p>
<p>In a country that prides itself on the fact that “All are innocent until proven guilty”, isn’t our behavior a bit contradictory to the statement? There is no proof that she used steroids and the results came out CLEAN. But what’s sad is that even though the results have come out, people are still very suspicious. Do you think it’s fair to Ye Shiwen, who has worked so hard to get here and underwent so many sacrifices and pain—much more than the layman can ever imagine?</p>
<p>Some may say that she hasnt had any impressive wins before, and her sudden super-human victory is fishy. But if you look at superstars like Phelps, a lot of swimmers began making their mark around the age of 16. Look at Missy Franklin, her impressive win was made at age 17. The late teens is when a lot of swimmers make their appearance and mark on the international stage. All athletes have to start somewhere. All have some event that made them suddenly famous. </p>
<p>I still remember the happiness I felt when Michael Phelps won 8 gold medals, and the pride I felt for the US for producing such wonderful athletes to represent the country. But what I realized is that nobody in the US doubted whether or not Phelps was doping. At least, there wasnt a hype like the one that surrounds Chinas Ye Shiwen. If it had been a Chinese who had won 8 gold medals, the US would have certainly came up with something that would have made his accomplishment seem tainted.</p>
<p>Doping during the Olympic Games is very shameful and should be avoided, but making accusations without proof about accomplished athletes is equally shameful. We should applaud these outstanding and hard-working athletes because behind each great win is huge sacrifice, immense preparation, and great perseverance. We should congratulate the athletes who could achieve great feats the ordinary man cannot.</p>
<p>In the end though, fact is fact no matter who says so. Ye Shiwen is CLEAN and HER WIN WAS A RESULT OF HARD TRAINING AND PERSONAL STRENGTH. The Chinese athletes train harder than any other countrys athletes in the world (just run a search; this is admitted by the US and other nations as well). Under conditions like this, impressive wins are the fruits of their labor.</p>
<p>As the world begins to see Chinas great advancement in sports, Im sure that Americans and many others will be more accepting.</p>