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<p>It’s pretty obvious that he has. When he tested positive, his defense was entirely based on a clerical error. There was no effort to explain the positive test.</p>
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<p>I couldn’t help wondering the kids would be like if Michael Phelps and Allison Schmitt were to marry and have kids…</p>
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Well, that’s not exactly how that story ended up. There was no proof that the 2008 athletes were underage, but the same investigation found that one Chinese gymnast in 2000 was underage (and that another was probably underage). One of those athletes was in fact stripped of her medal.</p>
<p>sunshine, I hope you’re right that Ye is entirely clean. But it’s not absurd to think that she might not be–or that any other athlete might be. The story got press because John Leonard, who is the executive director of the American Swimming Coaches Association and the World Swimming Coaches Association raised questions about it. Maybe he’s got an ax to grind against the Chinese, I don’t know, but he’s not just a man on the street. Other people with similar credentials are defending her. Is there anybody with similar credentials questioning Missy Franklin’s performance? If there is, then that issue can be discussed as well.</p>
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I hope that China, as a nation, takes actions that will enable Americans and many others to be more trusting.</p>
<p>I find I am in agreement with much of what the OP has to say, and coureur too. There is one major point of disagreement, however, that can completely alter the perspective. While the US government is great with her citizens, the generosity is not and cannot be extended to other nations or their nationals, or she would be another Greece. </p>
<p>China is the very opposite. By controlling her citizenry tightly, she does not have to be hard on other nations or their nationals. As a non-Chinese and non-US citizen, I do not have to fear China the way I fear America. In short, governments are playing a zero sum game.</p>
<p>The problem with the current Chinese system is the inability of the central government to exert enough control on the local and provincial governments. This is where much of the corruption occurs, sports doping is one of them.</p>
<p>From what I can tell, next to the Olympics, the Chinese National Games is the most important sporting event in China. There is intensive competition to top the standing, and to contribute the most athletes to the National team.</p>
<p>From the perspective of the Chinese Central government, it makes no sense to spend so much time and effort to build such a powerful sports machine, and be embarrassed with cheating charges. So, they have implemented changes to discourage cheating by imposing life time bans and the lost of state stipends among others. I suspect it is working, otherwise there would be more Ye Shuwens and Sun Yangs around, and their weightlifting team would not be performing so poorly, by their standard, right now.</p>
<p>Speaking as a neighbour and a friend, I find the most disturbing aspect of American behaviour is not so much the hypocrisy because I see this everywhere. What I find disconcerting is how vocal Americans are about it. In short, you folks love to point fingers. I find this to be true from politicians to sports officials to athletes. When the Ye story broke, my first reaction was that Leonard has to be an America. Believe me, it gives me no pleasure in being right.</p>
<p>As I see it anyway.</p>
<p>If you’ve followed the Olympic Badminton scandal lately or watched the USA v North Korea Women’s soccer match yesterday you will recognize that not everyone (and I mean countries and programs not individuals) have the same sense of fair play and interpretation of the rules. I don’t know about swimmers and doping, but given the age fixing issues last time and other coordinated efforts this Olympics it wouldn’t be a surprise to me.</p>
<p>I have no suspicions about Ye, the swimmer. I find the improvement in her times entirely plausible for an athlete of her age.</p>
<p>But speaking of age, technically sunshine02 is correct that the 2008 Chinese women’s gymnastics team was cleared and declared old enough to compete in the Olympics. I side with Christine Brennan in this controversy, though: [Maybe</a> now China will quit cheating - USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/brennan/2008-10-01-China_N.htm]Maybe”>http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnist/brennan/2008-10-01-China_N.htm)</p>
<p>It is interesting to me that this year’s Chinese women’s Olympic gymnastic team looks noticeably older than the 2008 team.</p>
<p>I would be delighted to see Beth Tweddle (UK) win a medal this time around! The Chinese girls denied her one in 2008.</p>
<p>^ Can you briefly explain about the soccer match, or link an article? Not questioning, just interested.</p>
<p>The chineese team this year are all listed as being 20 - really? That’s because they were all exactly “16” last time.</p>
<p>On the soccer match . . . North Korea played the most brutal game of chopping legs out from behind, shoving down and sitting on US players, etc. etc. along with crazy implausible acting jobs faking stretcher injuries with no or minimal contact and at one point getting carded for an amazingly theatrical no contact flop. I have never seen anything like it even in the men’s game. It was orchestrated and without shame. They had a haughty attitude when called out - and refused hands up from the turf etc. It was premeditated, systematic and tactical rather than individual showmanship like we usually see with soccer flops. I will look up the card count and see if I can find some links. There could/should have been more cards. It took the referee some time to realize that it wasn’t isolated random incidents.</p>
<p>[North</a> Korean football team shamed in six-hour public inquiry over World Cup - Telegraph](<a href=“North Korean football team shamed in six-hour public inquiry over World Cup”>North Korean football team shamed in six-hour public inquiry over World Cup)</p>
<p>Still looking for the best link for Women’s Olympic game but ran across this tidbit from the Men’s World Cup.</p>
<p>Here’s one account along with a previous doping scandal for the women
<a href=“BuddyTV - America's TV News, Movie News, & Reviews Source”>BuddyTV - America's TV News, Movie News, & Reviews Source;
<p>^ Ugghh! We don’t follow soccer a lot, but our family ‘hates on’ any athlete that over dramatizes or fakes injury…laying on the ground for effect. Such diva’s. With something like what you describe the coaches had to be orchestrating it.</p>
<p>I was glad to hear that 8 badminton players were expelled for cheating. Apparently, everyone in the audience could tell they were cheating. Sad.</p>
<p>The way they do the seeding is awful and does encourage this, but it’s pathetic nonetheless. I’m glad they DQ’d these teams and hope they’re not overturned on appeal.</p>
<p>[2012</a> London Olympics – Eight badminton players disqualified for trying to lose matches - ESPN](<a href=“http://espn.go.com/olympics/summer/2012/badminton/story/_/id/8221408/2012-london-olympics-eight-badminton-players-disqualified-trying-lose-matches]2012”>2012 London Olympics -- Eight badminton players disqualified for trying to lose matches - ESPN)</p>
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<p>Good that you don’t follow soccer then, because the sport is rife with it. The World Cup is loaded with floppers. The NBA is bad. Pro soccer is a lot worse.</p>
<p>Appeal was rejected.
[SKorean</a> appeal rejected, Indonesia withdraws - seattlepi.com](<a href=“http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/article/SKorean-appeal-rejected-Indonesia-withdraws-3752199.php]SKorean”>http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/article/SKorean-appeal-rejected-Indonesia-withdraws-3752199.php)</p>
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<p>It’s one thing to be suspicious, but quite another to use his position to make full on cheating accusations in the public. That’s the common sense and general rule. He didn’t just “raised questions” by the way.</p>
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So it’s all China’s fault after all? You seem to have no problem with that big-mouth. What if some people from other countries are making accusations now against the US Track & Field? After all, they have had more dopings than the Chinese swimmers. I think it’d be equally classless to me. But I wonder if all you’d say is just something like “I hope that USA T&F, as an assocation, take actions that will enable XXX and many others to be more trusting” and have no words against the accusers. Talking about double-standard.</p>
<p>^^^^Seems that you are just as incapable of being objective and balanced as those with whom you have been arguing. And seriously, “big mouth?” :rolleyes:</p>
<p>The badminton seedings may have seemed unfair, but these teams understood the rules when they entered. The behavior on the court yesterday was despicable.</p>
<p>How am I being incapable of being objective and balanced? Are you telling me it’s okay to accuse someone so publicly with no proof? If you were to live in a slum area where there are many drug users; would it be okay for people to accuse you taking drugs just because where you live?</p>
<p>I define “big mouth” as someone making accusation without proof in the public.</p>
<p>^^^^^Oh, the devil made them do it, right? Gotcha. ;)</p>
<p>And where is your post about the set up trying to prevent an all Chinese final? That’s what I was referring to.</p>
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<p>My post was deleted after I researched more about what actually happened. Initially, it was what I thought based on what I heard elsewhere.</p>
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<p>The way soccer games are called is not static. Organizations react to blatant abuses and implement new interpretations of the rules. Did you happen to follow the latest Euro Cup in Poland and the Ukraine? I think the problem of flopping was addressed. </p>
<p>There are still problems with players faking injuries and rolling on the grassmat for no good reasons, and contacts on about every corner kick that remind us of waterpolo positioning. You’ll see it a lot in certain leagues and not so much in others, depending on the use of video reviews after the games and the imposition of suspensions. It is good to remember that the ref do not have access to instant replay and make instant decisions in a fast moving game. We have the benefit to see it closer and have replays from different angles. </p>
<p>All in all, there is a desire to clean up the games and the attitude of players … on and off the field. A Colombian player was suspended for a suckerpunch that the ref had missed.</p>