<p>PRC SWIMMERS have been busted 40 times since 1994. That’s 4 times the next offender… Her 100 free split was faster than the average of the top 8 men’s finalists in the 400 IM - that group includes Lochte and Phelps. Please take a moment to consider whether a man of her size – 5"8’ and 140 lbs could accomplish that feat – impossible!</p>
<p>Her final 100 was considerably faster than the 3 women’s finalists in the 400 free – about 4% when compensating for the breast to free turn. Allison Scmitt destroyed the field in the 200 Free last night with a 58 low - compensate for the flip turn and they are comparable times; the last 100 of a 200 free is far easier and much faster than the final 100 of the 400 IM. She is a terrific freestyler? Why wasn’t she entered in any freestyle events? Ye’s teammate was busted for EPO in March of this year and didn’t come to the games as a result. The list goes on. I guarantee you that the majority of knowledgable swimmers, coaches and fans throughout the world are trying wrap their minds around this. Considering PRC’s history, questioning the result is a normal response. </p>
<p>Other Asian phenoms, kitajima and Park Tae-Huan have never been accused. Michelle Smith of ireland was rightfully suspected after remarkable results in Atlanta. Any swimmer of any nationality with a swim this far away from the norm would raise suspicions. Americans are not alone in questioning this statistical anomaly:</p>
<p>The English woman in the 800m also swam faster than those men in her last 50 last year also. As for size, the French guy that absolutely destroyed the field is by far the skinniest. The Aussie coaches said she has good power to weight ratio. Michael Phelps is a lot slower now that he’s bigger by the way!</p>
<p>Just how do you know she didn’t pace herself? The fact that she stayed significantly closer to the front in her 200-IM suggests she swam more conservatively in her first three legs of her 400-IM. Also, at the 200-IM, when she appears to pace more evenly and balanced, she’s only half second faster than the next female. Why do you keep focusing her closing speed in 400-IM without any knowlege about her pacing strategy while seem to ignore her more “ordinary” speed in her 200-IM?</p>
<p>When Sun Yang swam his 200 and 200x4 relay, his closing speed was more than 1 second slower than that in his 1,500! That shows pacing not only just changes but can turn things upside down!</p>
<p>Even if she enters freestyle, it would not make her more or least believable. I don’t see how not entering would make her more suspicious. 59 is impressive closing speed for 400-IM but that time wouldn’t mean anything for 100-m. Just because she has impressive closing speed for 400-IM doesn’t automatically translate her into a 200-m or 100-m freestyler medeler.</p>
<p>Speaking of the Lithuanian breaststroker’s win in the 100 br, it was nothing too spectacular. She did not set a record, nor did she post an unusually fast time - it was on par with her prelim and semi times. An unknown 15 yr old winning a gold? Are we talking about Sydney? </p>
<p>I just remembered - the breaststroke record times dropped when the sroke rules changed.</p>
<p>Sam Lee - the French swimmer is a foot taller – he is 6"8. Heighth is relevant in freestyle. </p>
<p>Swimmers pace the distance freestyle and come home strong with a “kick”. Rick Demont was probably the first to do that. You cant compare distance freestyle events. The 400 IM is a different animal. This is way too far away from the norm not to raise suspicions. </p>
<p>Phelps hasn’t been training regularly and he is older – Ryan is stronger and faster.</p>
<p>Are you saying she couldn’t final in the 200 free but can close in a 58? really?</p>
<p>Can’t you understand why the swimming community is suspicious given PRC’s record with doping their female swimmers?</p>
<p>I switched on CCTV news and they showed a clip of two of the teams in action. It was a total disgrace. Players deliberately serving into the net…you name it. What is even more amazing is that three of the teams are appealing! Of the nations involved, China agreed with the decision and is the only team not appealing. Reality never ceases to amaze.</p>
<p>In the next Olympic, I am sure it will be an all sudden death format.</p>
<p>Did anyone see that fencing match? That was the longest second in all of sports. Here you have two fencers, one from South Korea and the other Germany. Add an Austrian referee, a Russian President and the fix is in. Another disgrace.</p>
<p>Who else besides the Americans are vociferous about Ye?
How many more Chinese swimmers are suspected of doping at the Olympics? Why would they only dope Ye?
Why can’t you give her benefit of the doubt since it hasn’t been proved yet?
If you were in Ye’s position, and knew you are clean, what would you say to all these accusers and how would you prove your innocence?</p>
<p>Cbreeze: Read my post and follow the links - I posted British and Brazilian articles to show the doubts are not limited to America. Being suspicious is far from being vociferous. You posted my quote without answering the question. Considering the PRC’s past with their swimmers, can’t you understand why there are eyebrows raised?</p>
<p>Since I am opposed to cheating, but not necessarily to doping, I’ll stay out of this hissing match.</p>
<p>But I can tell you that unusual performances can and do happen. I remember my younger d’s (age 13) one great performance in gymnastics (floor) at a regional championship. For reasons neither she nor I nor her coaches can explain, she had one performance, exactly one, that was so far ahead of the competition, it was astonishing. My wife and I were sitting there, and we couldn’t believe our eyes. My d. was shocked as well. It was light years ahead of much more highly ranked gymnasts (they were shocked, too.) She never repeated it, never even came close, and career was ended by injuries. But coaches still talk about that one weird performance. </p>
<p>Maybe somebody put something in the bubblegum.</p>
<p>What’s the term for someone who is so focused on his own country that he can no longer have any perspective on his own bias against any other country?</p>
<p>It’s refreshing to watch French Canadian TV coverage of the Olympics and not have to suffer the mental derangement and obnoxious bias that is typical for the coverage by American networks.</p>
<p>In the “old days,” I remember coverage where (I think it was ABC) would do numerous personal vignettes on foreign competitors. It helped me see them as quite similar to our own athletes, with glimpses of them as family members, spouses, people with hopes and dreams. We don’t see many of those anymore. It’s all about the US athletes.</p>
You haven’t addressed some of my points. You do <em>not</em> know her pacing, do you? Speaking of “too far away from the norm”, that’s nothing compared to Evans. People did raise suspicion about her but an all out attack like this? No.</p>
I learned in kindergarten that it wasn’t very convincing to say, “But Johnny also did something bad.” I’m not sure whose big mouth you’re talking about, mine or John Leonard’s, but I’m not about to be apologetic for criticizing the government of the PRC. But if they indeed have cracked down on cheating, that would be a good thing. If they crack down enough, over time people are less likely to be suspicious of somebody like Ye. I thought it was a positive sign that the Chinese badminton players didn’t appeal.</p>
<p>That badminton thing is weird, though. I guess it’s cheating, in a way, but it’s strategy, too. Is it really different from swimmers not trying to set records in heats? I guess there must be a rule against it.</p>
<p>Speaking of doping, our American athletes are not that clean. Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones, are examples. I don’t suspect Ye any more than Michael Phelps.</p>
But that’s the thing–John Leonard didn’t suspect Ye because she was Chinese, or because she won a medal, or because she had excellent times. He suspected her because (according to him) her improvement over her own personal best was very unusually great. Now, other people have refuted this, and they may point to other athletes that one might suspect. So while it make sense to suspect all athletes of doping, it doesn’t make sense to suspect them all equally.</p>
<p>Somebody said above that you wouldn’t suspect gymnasts of taking steroids. What about focus drugs, though?</p>
<p>I do not suspect Ye of doping. Not her personally, but I am suspicious of her coaches and swim team officials and doctors. I bet her life and training is quite different from those of Missy Franklin or any other American teen swimming in these games. I’m old enough to remember the Eastern German swimmers and other athletes… My D saw the training facilities and the boarding school for athletes in China and felt very sorry for these kids who were taken away from their families. As far as Ye not swimming freestyle, unlike in the US, where a swimmer is pretty much free and encouraged to enter as many events as s/he feels s/he could handle, swimmers in China, Russia, and many other countries are selected for their stroke/event and are only trained for those. Julia, the Russian breaststroker swimming in these games, briefly trained in the US and was surprised how different the coaching styles and the practice set up were here compared to her practices in Russia.</p>
And Missy Franklin is not really typical, even for an American athlete. For one thing, she still uses the same Colorado coach she’s had since she was seven years old, and she has (so far) refused endorsements so she could retain eligibility to swim for her high school, and for college. I think those things make it somewhat less likely that she’s doping than otherwise. Also, the fact that her parents are Canadian. And that she goes to a Jesuit high school. Not definitive, of course–she could still be a cheater.</p>
<p>Hunt,
The big-mouth is of course John Leonard. I don’t really care how much you dislike the Chinese government. I much prefer the system here than that in China too. I am just saying the general rule should stand and let me reiterate: it’s okay to have suspicion; it’s NOT okay to use your high professional position and go to the press to pretty much accuse against someone, esp. a young girl, without any proof. That’s really my main point.</p>
<p>“Somebody said above that you wouldn’t suspect gymnasts of taking steroids. What about focus drugs, though?”</p>
<p>My d didn’t (though had she gone to school, I’m sure she would have been the first kid on the block.) But virtually every other gymnast in the gym was on them. (and they DO have long-term consequences, or so we are learning…)</p>