Olympic cheating: Double Standard?

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<p>Hunt,</p>

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<p>In soccer, they arrange the last two games within the same group simultaneously so you can’t game the system without colluding with another team. During the group stage, the point-system is such that in a group of 4, even if you win the first 2 wins, a loss in the last game can get you eliminated. Also, there’s NO such situation in which both opposing teams would want to lose at the same time. At least one of them will have the incentive to win. Sometime a tie would move both teams to the next round and make both happy as long as neither care about who finish first but they will have to totally trust each other. </p>

<p>In the US, we have similar things, though you may not think of it as “scandal”. One example is “Suck for Luck” campaign in NFL last year. Many fans actually wanted their teams to finish the worst just to get Luck.</p>

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<p>What they did wrong was they embarrassed the IOC and Badminton World Federation in front the whole world for such a farcical game setup.</p>

<p>But talking about double standard, I can assure you that you won’t hear another peep out of the British press about their “disgraceful gamesmanship” or not trying their best to win after the manufactured fall by Philip Hindes in cycling.</p>

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<p>The whole badminton system is stupid. How can you tell who plays 100%? If winning would get you to play #2 seed in the knock-out round next while losing would get you to a weaker opponent, anybody would be tempted not to put out the best effort, espeically when an Olympic medal is on the line.</p>

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<p>What is that about? Haven’t seen anything.</p>

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<p>chashaobao,</p>

<p>You are so right about the double-standard. This is basically the same thing as badminton. But googling “badminton + throw + Olympics” would get you A LOT MORE matches than “Philip Hines + Olympics”. The press seems very knee on reporting any scandal related to Asian players and making sure they are displayed prominently for long periods but downplaying what’s happening in cycling. They pretend to be balanced by reporting it but would flush it out of the front page quickly.</p>

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<p>I can tell you that in very important youth soccer qualification tournaments, teams have been kicked out for arranging to play for a tie in the last game of a pool. In one such case, the coach who approached the other was suspended for a one year, and actually never made it back after that. </p>

<p>It all goes to the integrity a league or a world organization wants to impose.</p>

<p>As far as the reports of cheating, be in sports, or in academic circles, the French have a beautiful say, namely … il n’y a pas de fum</p>

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<p>""…like him, is from Liaoning… This brings up another question. Is using imported players cheating? A lot of countries are doing just that.""</p>

<p>Hi CG, the selection process in China involves a lot of provincial politics for sure. China’s entry in Women’s 53 kg weightlifting, Zhou, is supposed to be trained for the 2016 Olympics instead. There are more qualified competitors. But she was pre-maturely selected (and hence the loss) because 2 provinces were fighting with each other.</p>

<p>As long as they are abided by the rules, to compete at least 3-5 years after gaining citizenship, I suppose there is nothing wrong with “imported” athletes. A better question is, why must Olympics competition be completely structured along national lines?</p>

<p>China has “exported” many players and coaches over the years. For example, Li was on the Chinese National Gymnastics Team before winning gold in Pommel Horse for Switzerland in the 1996 Olympics. Ko and Li (another Li) were on the Chinese National Table Tennis Team before winning silver in the doubles for HK in the 2004 Olympics. There are enough Chinese athletes in HK to be casually referenced as the “Chinese B Team”. And we can also find many Chinese diving and gymnastics coaches working for other nations.</p>

<p>On the other hand, China has also contracted Australian coaches to train Chinese swimmers, including Liu, Sun, and Ye. Some cross-pollination is actually beneficial to promote sports and foster understanding among nations.</p>

<p>"“So, from the players’ perspective, it is unfair because they have always been doing so and got away with it. Looking at it from the spectators’ perspective, it is utterly disgraceful and a total waste of time and money.”"</p>

<p>From a strategic point of view, probably there was nothing wrong. But from an execution point of view, I suppose they should apologize to the audience. Not only that they were forewarned by the referee, but deliberately sending the shuttlecock into the net, is very bad form. As a comparison, although soccer teams may drag out a match under similar situations, purposefully kicking the ball into one’s own goal, can have the player banned for life.</p>

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<p>"“I can tell you that in very important youth soccer qualification tournaments, teams have been kicked out for arranging to play for a tie in the last game of a pool. In one such case, the coach who approached the other was suspended for a one year, and actually never made it back after that.”"</p>

<p>This is because those coaches are “inexperienced”. The teams in the soccer leagues that are established long enough, would implicitly know what to do in similar situations (think game theory), without any arrangement with each other. As a matter of fact, even the commentators would openly suggest what are to be expected in such matches. It is no big secret, nor any collusion necessary.</p>

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<p>Perhaps you meant “inexperienced in the art of cheating”? </p>

<p>This is one case in which you could not get more wrong about the “inexperienced” coaches and about the league not being established long enough. The coach would have a couple of national championships to counter your utter speculation, and the league just happens to be one of the most storied youth soccer league in the nation. </p>

<p>And, fwiw, this is a case where the attempt to collude and have both teams qualify for the next round was not only reported but castigated swiftly. And in soccer!</p>

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<p>"“Perhaps you meant “inexperienced in the art of cheating”?.. And, fwiw, this is a case where the attempt to collude and have both teams qualify for the next round was not only reported by castigated. And in soccer!”"</p>

<p>This is how pro soccer teams in Europe and even WC play with each other for decades. If you don’t like it, then don’t watch. Youth leagues are of course “inexperienced”.</p>

<p>Your holier-than-thou attitude is getting over your head. Please elaborate how Game Theory is a theory of “cheating”… :-)</p>

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<p>Your post is such a non sequitur that it does not deserve more than this reply. </p>

<p>Say what?</p>

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<p>Say your holier-than-thou attitude is speechless against Game Theory… :-)</p>

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<p>““But talking about double standard, I can assure you that you won’t hear another peep out of the British press about their “disgraceful gamesmanship” or not trying their best to win after the manufactured fall by Philip Hindes in cycling.””</p>

<p>Let’s do an experiment.</p>

<p>“American Justin Gatlin, a 2004 Olympic gold medalist in the 200-meter race, returned to the 2012 Olympics after a four-year doping ban.”</p>

<p>[Justin</a> Gatlin learned in his time away from track ? USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/story/2012-06-25/us-olympic-track-and-field-trials-justin-gatlin/55823072/1]Justin”>http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/story/2012-06-25/us-olympic-track-and-field-trials-justin-gatlin/55823072/1) </p>

<p>“(American Crystal) Cox admitted in 2010 to using anabolic steroids and accepted a four-year suspension and disqualification of her results from 2001 to 2004.”</p>

<p>[Crystal</a> Cox stripped of 2004 relay gold medal ? USATODAY.com](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/story/2012-07-21/IOC-strips-Crystal-Cox-of-gold-medal/56394148/1]Crystal”>http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/story/2012-07-21/IOC-strips-Crystal-Cox-of-gold-medal/56394148/1) </p>

<p>With doping scandals as recent as the above and the long history of systemic cover-ups, do you expect anyone in the Western community to point fingers at the US Track and Field Team in the press during the Olympics and cause a widespread stir?</p>

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<p>Lots of counties have “imported” (i.e. immigrants) on their Olympic team including the US. Heck, the guy who carried the US flag in the 2008 opening ceremonies, Lopez Lomong, is an import. It’s not cheating unless the athlete has not yet yet achieved citizenship in the new country. Now countries vary widely in the minimum length of the normal naturalization process, and they vary even more widely in their willingness to circumvent the normal process to grant quickie citizenship to talented athletes. The citizenship laws of the various countries is not something the IOC can control.</p>

<p>The US is to be commended for making no special citizenship allowances at all for athletes. If the requisite 5 year US residency requirement is not quite fulfilled when the Olympic games roll around, too bad. Get back in line like everybody else. Better luck four years from now. But those that will grant quickie citizenships even include the likes of Great Britain, which made South African teen running phenom, Zola Budd, an instant citizen back in the 80s in time to compete for them in the 84 Olympics. After the games she went back to being South African and moved back to South Africa where she lives to this day. That episode may have been legal under British law, but it was still disgraceful IMO.</p>

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<p>StillGreen,</p>

<p>Yea, let’s see if NBC announcers will have a little discussion (not just mentioning it in one sentence) about Justin Gatlin and USA T&F doping and brought up Cox in front of viewers. A comparison, summary of similarities and differences, historic total of dopers…etc. with the Chinese swimming would be nice. LOL! I doubt it.</p>

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<p>I don’t know that you could know someone wasn’t playing "“100%,” but you can sure tell when a world class badminton player is deliberately trying to throw the game.</p>

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As far as the reports of cheating, be in sports, or in academic circles, the French have a beautiful say, namely … il n’y a pas de fum</p>

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<p>Nrdsb4,</p>

<p>What I am saying is when they don’t deliberately throw the games, can you tell they are really putting the best effort? A professional player can hit the shots with the same skills but they can drop in strategy without being noticed by most people. In badminton, pacing and strategy are extremely important. What’s the incentive to put the best effort when losing leads to better chance to go far?</p>

<p>There’s not even pressure from losing. That’s the best time for players to make all kind of trick shots to make audience happy. The game is never the same as normal.</p>

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<p>Speaking of soccer, soccer players pretend to be tripped ALL the time. They make the fall as dramatic and painful as possible so the other players can get yellow/red cards.</p>

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<p>Well, kinda. Let me correct that for you:</p>

<p>They make the fall LOOK as dramatic and painful as possible so the other players can get yellow/red cards. </p>

<p>They do not really want a painful fall! You need, however, to place that in the proper perspective. Floppers and fakers do exist, but so is a strong desire to ferret out the abusers with referee actions on the pitch, and with the use of video replays that help separate the fake injuries from the real collisions. </p>

<p>And regardless of the existence of fakers and floppers, it does not compare with the … deliberate throwing of the games. It would be comparing a pitcher doctoring a ball to one of the great scandals in baseball. Think Shoeless Joe Jackson. </p>

<p>Say it ain’t so, Sam!</p>