One of the worst K-12 education systems in the world

Parents Forum
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<p>"America is widely acknowledged for having one of the worst K-12 education systems in the world. The more our children are exposed to our educational system, the more poorly they do on international tests,” Tilghman said.</p>

<p>This from the outgoing president of Princeton University, Shirley Tilghman.</p>

<p>Agree, or disagree?</p>

<p>[Princeton</a> President Advocates Inversion of Science Education | News | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2012/11/14/shirley-tilghman-science-education/]Princeton”>Princeton President Advocates Inversion of Science Education | News | The Harvard Crimson)</p>

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<p>America doesn’t have a K-12 education system. It has thousands of them.</p>

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<p>I think the Princeton school district does just fine.</p>

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<p>Disagree, because of analyses such as this:</p>

<p>[Super-Economy:</a> The amazing truth about PISA scores: USA beats Western Europe, ties with Asia.](<a href=“http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-about-pisa-scores-usa.html]Super-Economy:”>http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-about-pisa-scores-usa.html)</p>

<p>“What I have learned recently and want to share with you is that once we correct (even crudely) for demography in the 2009 PISA scores, American students outperform Western Europe by significant margins and tie with Asian students.”</p>

<p>The primary problem is not the educational system but the immigration system. Countries such as Canada are more selective in who they admit.</p>

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<p>And yet students from the "worst K-12 system"in the world, are still being admitted to & graduating from, the same colleges and universities that international students are eager to enter.
:confused:</p>

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<p>Ok…When I hit post, CC took me to an entirely different topic and my post was gone. here goes again…</p>

<p>We had an exchange student from Italy last year. We have always heard how advanced the exchange students are. this was our second one and neither were “advanced”.</p>

<p>In Italy, they do not choose which math or science class to take, like chemistry, geometry, etc. They have 9th grade math, 10th grade math, etc. Everyone takes the same thing.</p>

<p>Within the year, they have blocks of algebra, geometry, calculus. In science, they’ll cover biology, anatomy, etc. </p>

<p>She was quite smart. If anything, she was definitely more “rounded” than our kids. However, she had never had a full year of anything. She thought her full year of chemistry and algebra 2 here was hard. The review portions were a breeze and since she can speak Latin, the terminolgy in science was understandable. Once they got past review, she had to learn like everyone else.</p>

<p>She took the ACT twice and after an ACT prep course, she scored a 23.</p>

<p>Her Italian teachers thought it was rediculous she was wasting her time coming here and made some remark about being a cheerleader. I think they are misinformed about our schools. They are very serious, don’t really speak (good morning…) to the students, and no extra curricular. She was done with classes by 1:30 daily but her particular school was in session on Saturday. Her sister attended a different kind of high school and went Mon-Fri.</p>

<p>There is no question that some of our schools are lacking, but I’m not convinced other countries are better.</p>

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<p>I’ll let someone else make the joke referencing the level of science they teach in Italy.
( note: I’m not criticizing their geologists, just the level of basic scientific understanding that is lacking in the judicial system. This isn’t the first time Italian courts have pronounced a verdict so ridiculous it would have been wacky, if it was humorous. Unfortunately, it isn’t.)
[Italian</a> Scientists Sentenced to 6 Years for Earthquake Statements: Scientific American](<a href=“Italian Scientists Sentenced to 6 Years for Earthquake Statements - Scientific American”>Italian Scientists Sentenced to 6 Years for Earthquake Statements - Scientific American)</p>

<p>Then came the ‘‘denim defense,’’ or what Italian lawmakers are calling the ‘‘jeans alibi’’ – a court ruling that suggested that a woman cannot be raped if she is wearing jeans because, the ruling contended, they are impossible to remove unless she helps. That decision – and the country’s reaction to it – has reopened an angry debate about rape and about how judges view sexual assault.
Perhaps logic classes could be taught in law school?
[Ruling</a> on Tight Jeans and Rape Sets Off Anger in Italy - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/1999/02/16/world/ruling-on-tight-jeans-and-rape-sets-off-anger-in-italy.html]Ruling”>Ruling on Tight Jeans and Rape Sets Off Anger in Italy - The New York Times)</p>

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<p>Oh please, the American judicial system has more than it’s own fair share of idiocy.</p>

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<p>^^ Let’s hear some.</p>

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<p>I actually did a crude analysis of PISA 2009 when it came out. My conclusion was similar that white and asian american students were performing at/near the top. However, I do partially blame the under-performance of AA and Hispanic on the disparity (teacher, funding, environment, etc) among K-12 systems.</p>

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<p>Well here is one! (in response to post #9)</p>

<p>[Outrage:</a> Connecticut Appeals Court Releases Man Who Raped Disabled Woman | WaznmentobeWaznmentobe](<a href=“http://waznmentobe.com/crime-2/outrage-connecticut-appeals-court-releases-man-who-raped-disabled-woman.html]Outrage:”>http://waznmentobe.com/crime-2/outrage-connecticut-appeals-court-releases-man-who-raped-disabled-woman.html)</p>

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<p>I agree, that is ridiculous.
This reasoning that women have superhuman powers to resist rape/ pregnancy resulting from rape, is bizarre.</p>

<p>Someone that has the functional capacity of a three yr old cannot consent to sex- period.</p>

<p>It sounds like the prosecution messed up.
<a href=“http://www.abajournal.com/mobile/article/around_the_blawgosphere_state_v_fourtin_linkedin_blogging/[/url]”>http://www.abajournal.com/mobile/article/around_the_blawgosphere_state_v_fourtin_linkedin_blogging/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>And a position amply supported by the evidence of how our educational system has done wonders for native Americans and the ones who did not necessarily immigrated voluntarily. </p>

<p>Until we find the courage to set aside the stack of excuses we rely to explain the poor correlation with the resources we have, the resources we spend on public education, and the abysmal results, we will not implement the drastic changes that are needed in our K-12 schools. As a country, we are decidedly more in favor of apologists than leaders. </p>

<p>On a trivial note, try this little test. If you have the GSN, try to find a version of the 25,000 Pyramid game of years ago, and watch the current version --if you can stand it. Witness how mental quickness, ability to react and think, or basis erudition has … evolved. If that does not give you an idea, the next time you purchase something, see how the cashier scrambles to give the correct change without the “machine” telling him or her what it is. And make no mistake, our basic system of education is designed to deliver the masses of WalMart workers of the future, safe and except a few exceptions that need little hekp from our educators. </p>

<p>Our students do not get the education they deserve. Nor do the parents get a fraction of what they pay for. That is the price we are paying for having abdicating our public system of education to the service providers and the mercenary politicians they are buying.</p>

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<p>Amen. If there’s a problem that’s a big part of it.</p>

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[quote]

America doesn’t have a K-12 education system. It has thousands of them.</p>

<p>Amen. If there’s a problem that’s a big part of it.
[\quote]</p>

<p>Why do you think that? Do you think it would be better if US students had a uniformly problematic education?</p>

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<p>Making change is a function best-suited to the computer Better to have cashier concentrate on making customer feel appreciated. Human banter.</p>

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<p>True, but also quite irrelevant to the example that is about the inability to do basic math. And, fwiw, there are plenty of similar ones, such as the inability to convert or understand a metric system. The inability to read blueprints in construction. </p>

<p>Barrons, since you are a member of the older generation, I am sure you have witnessed the erosion of the basic and thinking skills of “my” generation who is lost without a smartphone or other device attached to our hand. Remember we cannot find our way to anything without turn by turn directions and a GPS! :)</p>

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<p>@Bay, obviously I think it would be ideal if every school district had what the good ones have.</p>

<p>As it is education quality is very uneven…sometimes due to socioeconomic factors (some schools have great facilities and laptops for all, some school do without adequate heat and old books), sometimes due to differences in curricular priorities (I’m thinking of areas that have decided not to teach evolution, for example).</p>

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<p>As it is education quality is very uneven…sometimes due to socioeconomic factors (some schools have great (I’m thinking of areas that have decided not to teach evolution, for example).</p>

<p>Yeah, like that’s a good idea. :rolleyes:</p>

<p>But would a national curriculum be better?
Our state turned down federal monies in years past, because we wanted to have accurate sex ED in schools, not to teach students that " just say no" is the only game in town.</p>

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<p>Our schools will never have uniform resources or curricula unless we nationalize education. We’d have to decide that was a good thing, first… </p>

<p>I’d rather spend our energy focussing on improving teacher quality.</p>