<p>I have observed how difficult it is for average students to succeed in a community college environment. It is not a path I would recommend to anyone except the brightest, most motivated older students. Now idad provides a link to stats to prove my point.</p>
<p>The odds are against success when a student try to get a BA or BS through a Community College start. Personally, I think it is a scam of sorts.</p>
<p>My wife, who left Hampshire a long time ago to pursue other, much more worthwhile activities, graduated from a cc with an RN degree. The program she entered was considerably more selective than Stanford, thank you, and rejects from the program entered four-year nursing programs (such as that at the University of Washington) that are considerably less selective. Her first job out - as a traveling hospice nurse (which was her goal) pays more than $50k a year, plus benefits. If she was in New York City or Palo Alto, she could have added another $20-$25k.</p>
<p>The average undergraduate student in the U.S. is 24.8 years old, attends an urban or suburban school either part-time, or full-time at night and on weekends. The problem for many 18-year-old community college students is that they likely shouldn’t be in school at all (that’s true for a large minority at four-year institutions, including the prestigious ones) because they have no clue as to what they might get out of it. But, unfortunately, society has little place for them, except for carrying a gun through a desert.</p>
<p>The biggest deterrent to cc students finishing a four-year degree is that, given that they have to figure out how to live at the same time, they can’t pay for it.</p>
<p>My daughter is a Freshman at a City College and I have to say it’s a lot harder to succeed there than at a residential college. You have to be very savvy and highly motivated in able to matriculate in four years when starting at a CC - an older student has a better chance to succeed there IMO. </p>
<p>She has to arrive at least an hour before classes to find parking. The website is so bad that it dropped a current class she is taking from her schedule when she tried to access info on the class. She clicked on the instructors name to see if the teacher had a link to a website and it dropped her from the class! I was with her at the computer and saw this. She then proceeded to add the class back and needs a code from the teacher before re-enrolling. She tried to explain this to to teacher who said “if you dropped the class, why are you here?” Ugh.</p>
<p>She is in her second week and has had one night of homework only in Math. The fast-track English class she’s taking? The final grade is dependent on a three page esssay (she had to do a 40 page essay in English in HS). </p>
<p>I can’t imagine how this is preparing her for graduation/transfer from a four year college.</p>
<p>Oh, forgot to say the book for the fast track English class was backordered through the bookstore and at the last minute had to pay premium shipping to get it through Amazon in time. Most of the class did not have the book when the class started :-/</p>
<p>I think the community college–going on to four-year college situation is an absolute scandal in our state (WA) and it gets very little attention. So many kids here start at cc and then just drift away from college. I’ve seen this with at least ten of my D’s high school friends. Two of them are quite smart, but not much parental financial help. They are now 21 or 22, living at home, working full-time and I doubt they will go back to college. The only cc students I know who have actually gone on to four-year colleges and graduated are ones with very aware parents with enough money to pay for the education, and all the kids I know who did transfer went to cc for three years in order to graduate from cc with AA degree. </p>
<p>WA has one of the highest rates of cc attendance and one of the lowest of four-year college attendance. It’s particularly bad in the Seattle area because the University of Washington does not take that many cc grads and they have to have a high GPA to get in. Thus, most cc grads have to move to another city to finish college at a state school. I think that whole difficulty in completing a four-year degree contributes to the high cc dropout rate.</p>
<p>An article in our local paper today said that our PA state and community college system is a good one with 58% of the freshman continuing into their second year at the CC’s. At four year state colleges, 81% of the freshman continue on to their sophomore year. That high figure suprised me - they just told us a couple of weeks ago at my son’s private college that 87% of the freshman continue into their sophomore year. </p>
<p>But back to CC’s. I have said before on this board that I do not understand the tendency to lump all Community Colleges together. Do we lump all State Colleges together? Our local CC’s have relationships with the State Colleges. One can start on an education track at our local CC’s and afer completion continue as a full time junior at some of the state colleges. There’s one program that’s connected to Temple University. I know many kids from our High School that start at the CC and do continue on to four year colleges. I think that’s largely due to working with the State Colleges and having the curriculums match up so well. </p>
<p>I would like to see the actual numbers though because even though I know friends of my daughter and adult friends that have done that, (graduated from CC, then move on to 4 year college) perhaps they are the exception rather then the rule.</p>
<p>I am a community college student in California. Our system is awesome for transfers! We have so many choices for colleges that give us preference. I am sure it is not like that in every state but it is definitely motivating to know you can transfer to one of the UC’s. I have been planning to be a transfer student since I was a sophmore in high school. I wouldn’t change a thing.
It is definitely not for everybody as many kids fall behind but if you are truly driven and self motivated you can do it.</p>
<p>“I think the personal experience of Mini’s wife is exception to the rule.”</p>
<p>I think the data, with the average undergraduate in the U.S. being 24.8 years old, says otherwise. Undergrads going to residential colleges at 18 and graduating in four years is the real exception.</p>
<p>But the question, which remains unaddressed, is why she would even want a four-year degree? As I noted, it was the rejects from her program who had to go to the four-year program, and this is not particularly unusual, given that nursing is one of the fastest growing professions in the U.S.</p>
<p>A very sad fact but all the more reason for truly dedicated individuals to take advantage of community college…if you’re serious, state schools are too and it really is tough to come by a determined community college student.</p>
<p>I agree with the observations about the high attrition rate, but I disagree that it’s a scam or scandal. In looking at my kids’ friends and other young people I know of who have gone to CCs in recent years I too have noticed the low success rate. But I look at it this way: There’s lots of different kids out there with different qualities and challenges. To begin with, there’s a high degree of self-selection in students enrolling in CCs - many students who are in CC’s are there because they were unable to qualify for a 4 year school out of high school. Not everyone is cut out to earn a BA or BS. The likelihood that these students will turn that around in 2 years isn’t that good.</p>
<p>If a kid makes it through high school with enough academic qualifications to go directly to a 4 year school, and can afford it, I think that has the best probabilities of success. If a student has the qualifications but can’t afford a 4 year school, it puts a lot more pressure on him or her to self-motivate and focus on the goal, or else run the risk of falling by the wayside. But it’s good to have the option. If a kid doesn’t qualify for a 4 year school out of high school CC gives that student the opportunity to turn it around. Not the best odds, but isn’t it good that the opportunity exists? </p>
<p>There’s no question that on a “bang for buck” basis doing 2 years at a CC then transferring to a 4 year school makes a lot of sense. But its also true that there are a lot of practical (and social) impediments to successfully completing all of the 2 year prerequisites - and even then, after transferring up the change in the caliber of the competing students can be a shock. My wife successfully made the progression from a CC to UC Berkeley back in the day - but she’s an unusually self-motivated and focused individual. I doubt that I would have succeeded. (She also describes the “cold shower” effect of cruising through a CC with straight A’s and then struggling to make B’s and C’s when she started her junior year in Berkeley.) </p>
<p>So even if theres only a 22% success rate in the CC to 4 year program, that 22% represents a lot of kids who might not have any other means of getting a college degree.</p>
<p>Many of these kids are delayed bloomers and it is typically a tough way to go–working and going to school. Many come from lower income households and are first generaton college so I salute them for their perseverance</p>
<p>Well, I wasn’t a late bloomer (many are though) but I am from a low income family and I am first generation. Just a little note of inspiration. Two of my brothers have gone on to law school after being cc transfer students. My sister went to UCSB straight out of high school but that is because she got a full scholarship for sports. I completely disagree that cc is a scam. I think the community college experience like most things in life is what you make it.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s a scam or scandal either. I teach at a cc and I would say most of my students “say” they want a 4 year degree. I’d always said I’d get a PhD but haven’t gotten around to it. I doubt anyone would say that my graduate school scammed me. But for the majority of students at our cc, this will be their terminal degree. They get the education they need and work at a level that suits them and their lifestyles. Our cc is very career oriented so many students go right from school into the desired job. Nothing wrong with that. The cc has many transfer agreements so students wishing to continue have many options. My experience has been that most students attending our cc are international students, career changers and older students. I am constantly amazed at what they are able to accomplish. I do admit that I find the 18 year old kids right out of highschool seem to have the most difficulty - usually it’s a maturity issue. Frankly, I think the 22% figure is excellent.</p>
