<p>If only the stupid government hadn’t mandated catalytic converters and pushed to eliminate leaded gas we’d all be better off.</p>
<p>BCEagle: Oh boy do I know about those low flush toilets…the ones where you have to flush 2 or 3 times…</p>
<p>Here is one of my favorite laugh out loud anecdotes… Someone in Carmel CA goes to the planning office to request a permit to add an additional 1/2 bath to an existing 2/1 cottage. The planning department refuses…due to water use restrictions. Now the customer points out that water use could potentially increase if one added another bedroom, since then one might have more ppl living at the residence. Simply adding a toilet and sink does not increase living space so in all likelihood would not increase actual water usage. The customer promised that if she was allowed to install a 2nd toilet she would not produce twice as much ‘product’ …she’d still have the same ‘output’ and thus the same water usage. But, logic does not apply…she did not get the permit.</p>
<p>When is the last time to buy the old fashioned light bulbs?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Really? Because in general halogen bulbs burn hotter than incandescents. In addition to sometimes creating discomfort and raising summertime cooling costs, this can also be a fire hazard in some circumstances, e.g., if a child or a pet knocks over a halogen lamp, or if someone unthinkingly places paper on a torchere-style lamp (which is why those lamps are banned by many colleges).</p>
<p>We had a few halogens for a while but got rid of them. Too hot, not as energy-efficient as CFLs, higher upfront cost than conventional incandescents. </p>
<p>I added a bunch of CFLs but I don’t like them, either; they don’t last nearly as long as advertised, and they’re inconvenient to dispose of properly. I’ve got a collection of burnt-out CFLs in my basement; who has time to make a special trip to dispose of them? Also had one shatter, and the clean-up was complicated. As for the burn-out issue, now some people are saying they burn out faster if you turn them on and off frequently. Well, what the . . . ??? After years of trying to be energy-conscious consumers, we’re well trained to turn off the light behind us when leaving a room. The rule is one light at a time per person; if no one is there, the light doesn’t need to be on. So we’re turning lights on and off all the time, the CFLs are lasting only marginally longer than incandescents, and the dead CFLs are piling up in the basement. (Gee, maybe I’d better get rid of them soon; I don’t want to build a super-toxic mercury bomb down there).</p>
<p>Now I’m gradually switching over to LEDs which is a huge upfront cost, but they burn cool, the light quality is good, they’re supposed to be super-efficient, and so far, anyway, I haven’t had any burn out. I just hope the price of LEDs comes down sooner rather than later. I’d hate to put them in at $10 per bulb as the incandescents and CFLs burn out, only to see the price drop to $1 per unit after I’ve completed the transition, and I’ve still got 7 or 8 years of life left on each bulb.</p>
<p>Could they request building an addition to get to 3/2 from 2/1 and then not build the additional bedroom? How about putting an additional toilet in the existing bathroom with a dividing wall? I would really hate having limitations on my home like this - fortunately we’re in a state where water really isn’t a problem - except for when we get too much of it.</p>
<p>We’ve had to change a bit on lighting fixtures too. The cheapest, usable LED bulb is typically $10 for 40 Watts. If you’re replacing a single-bulb 100 Watt stand, then you’re not going to get enough light - so we’ve gone to multi-bulb lamps to provide enough replacement light. In general, two 40s will do fine to replace a 100.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>According to Wikipedia,
[Phase-out</a> of incandescent light bulbs](<a href=“Phase-out of incandescent light bulbs - Wikipedia”>Phase-out of incandescent light bulbs - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>However, as someone pointed out earlier, this isn’t about incandescents per se, but about energy efficiency. If the industry can come up with a more energy-efficient incandescent bulb, we’ll be able to buy them.</p>
<p>Mercury COMPOUNDS are lethal. Mercury VAPOR is lethal. Mercury that is ingested or passes dermally, though the skin, are not very lethal.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[dental</a> amalgams and mercury](<a href=“http://www.poison.org/current/dental%20amalgams%20and%20mercury.htm]dental”>Do Fillings Cause Mercury Poisoning? | Poison Control)</p>
<p>From OSHA:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>also:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[Safety</a> and Health Topics | Mercury](<a href=“http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/mercury/index.html]Safety”>http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/mercury/index.html)</p>
<p>From the CDC white paper on the hazards of mercury:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp46-c2.pdf[/url]”>ATSDR - Page Not Found or Temporarily Unavailable;
<p>Finally, from wikipedia (I know…):</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not sure if everyone else has noticed it, but I have a few multi-light fixtures, and it seems as though it’s always the same CFL that burns out. I’m pretty sure I’ve had the same in the left socket for about three years no with no problems, while I’ve gone through two in the other one.</p>
<p>Also, everyone should check in with their local utility provider. Often times they provide CFLs for reduced or no cost.</p>
<p>I know^^. More than you’d ever want to know!</p>
<p>However, I stand by what I said: Mercury vapor is very toxic, but the LD50 associated with dermal absorption is pretty low. That’s one reason why so many of us who played with mercury back in high school chemsitry are still alive and kicking…</p>
<p>Now dimethyl mercury - THAT’S a killer!! But that’s also a whole different story.</p>
<p>I tried some of the energy efficient incandescents a few years ago and wasn’t really impressed with their performance. I think that I bought three of them. One blew. And the other two ran hot - I think that the improved efficiency was due to them burning hotter. I was pretty happy to replace it with an LED even though the LED was three times as much.</p>
<p>Something that I’d love to see is LED panel lighting where you have a panel, maybe 1 foot x 1 foot which is a lighting surface. It wouldn’t have to be that bright at any one point and would put out a nice diffuse light. It doesn’t seem like there is much demand for something like this at this time.</p>
<p>
I’ve seen some similar panels for sale as utility type lights.</p>
<p>I have a handheld LED rechargeable light that’s a 3 x 12 matrix of LEDs that I use for working on the car and other things. It’s great! The drop lights with an incandescent bulb had the problem of the bulb (even the ‘rough use’ ones) breaking the filament when the drop light dropped, plus having the cord could be a pain. There’s no way I’d ever use a CFL in that application due to the bulb breaking. This cordless rechargeable one with lithium ion batteries lasts about forever on a single charge and sheds a nice white light to light up the work area. It’s also very lightweight.</p>
<p>Mercury is a liquid that evaporates. Sit long enough and you can inhale it. I’m done on that. And I’ve researched it too. Face it. The government is giving you haz-mat guidelines for light bulbs. There is something so basically wrong with that scenario.
Incandescent light is just more pleasant in the home and easier on the eyes than any other type in my opinion. And you can use the dimmer switches I have all over my house.
However, there is NO reason (as far as I know) that they can’t make incandescent bulbs that last forever and are energy efficient. Tom Edison’s bulb lasted forever so I’m pretty sure longevity shouldn’t be an issue. I’m very sure the economics of making a buck is an issue. But I shouldn’t be forced to use a toxic product in my house.</p>
<p>The idea and attitude towards toxic materials definitely changes over time and societal experience. We used asbestos EVERYTHING when I was in college chem labs because they were inflammable and chemically inert. No concern whatsoever. Which was correct. Actually asbestos is only bad if inhaled so breaking it up to remove it is worse than leaving it there in a ceiling for fireproofing in many people’s opinions. Same with lead paint–if you don’t eat it, you’ll be okay. So the dust removing it is a worse health hazard.
Mercury concerns are old–from the “mad Hatter” tales of people using mercury in the felting process (1800’s) who went insane, to the early 70’s when mercury poisoning in the fish we eat became a concern (and still is today).
My concern for anything doesn’t relate to me really. I’m pretty sure (okay, sort of sure) I can live through most of society’s mistakes on what is safe. But my kids will have many, many more years in a toxic environment (microwaves, radiation, noise and I don’t know what else) that they have been exposed to since birth.
It seems we clean up the air and water and do great things then turn around and do something stupid again.</p>
<p>
You’re missing one key part of the equation - light output. If you make the light output very low then the bulb will last much longer since the filament doesn’t burn up as readily. My 25W bulb I use for reading in bed lasts until I accidentally knock the lamp over and break it that way. Increasing the light output means more current through the filament and thus more heat and more power used. If they can make an incandescent that uses 25w but has the light output of a 75w or 100w bulb then it’d be great. I seriously doubt that it hasn’t been tried. My guess is that it’s not feasible at this point.</p>
<p>My LED lights use half the power of the CFL bulbs so power use/savings is all relative. The government mandated to the available technology (CFL bulbs) and at some point could always mandate to the newer available technology (LEDs or ???).</p>
<p>And regarding mandates - the other thing I needed to do was in the laundry room either put in low power bulbs (CFL or LED) or I could put in incandescent as long as I also put in an occupancy sensor to automatically shut off the lights when the room is unoccupied. That’s what I ended up doing. I tried a CFL in there but it took too long to warm up to providing the full light output (they take a minute or two - unlike incandescent or LED) and then they’d eventually start audibly buzzing every now and then. I removed them and took them back to Home Depot.</p>
<p>btw - the county rules on this don’t state a maximum number of bulbs - just that each bulb must meet the low energy requirements. This of course, makes no sense - since 4 CFLs that consumed 37w each were allowed but a single incandescent that consumed 100w was not allowed.</p>
<p>And - the rules are only for kitchens and laundry rooms (kitchen rules are different - all must be low power) - not any of the rest of the house. Apparently whoever thought those rooms would be the most likely to have the lights left on must not have had kids or they’d realize it was really the bedroom, bathroom, hallway lights that are left on the most.</p>
<p>I am stockpiling enough oldschool bulbs to last my projected lifetime. I figure in the future they will be worth even more than unrestricted flow showerheads.</p>
<p>GladGradDad–I am SO jealous…you can read with a 25w bulb? Only in my dreams :)</p>
<p>The thing I hate about CFLs is their warm up time. H put them in the garage. They are horrible, and it seems worse in winter (because it’s colder or darker?) Either way I don’t want to have to pre-warm my lights.</p>
<p>He put a bunch in the barn too. No one can see until we’re half done feeding. 2 a.m. deliveries when it’s -15 is not really when I want to wait for light…</p>
<p>The kitchen is where I want the very most light. Glad I don’t live in a nanny state. Seems really counter productive to limit the w but not the # of bulbs. Gov’t at its finest.</p>
<p>We have a big stockpile of conventional and you all have reminded me to go make it bigger.</p>
<p>scout59, thanks for the informative post. That explains why I wasn’t hurt when when I bit into a thermometer when I was a kid and the mercury came out. I had fun rolling around the little balls of mercury.</p>
<p>I’m curious if anyone else occasionally eats peach pits. Even Snopes says it’s not a good idea, but some of them really have a great flavor that I have eaten them on occasion for decades.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I really can’t see many people building candelabras of 25 W light bulbs for use in every room. As pointed out previously, the law mandated efficiency ratings, not the type of light bulbs. This is quite similar to efficiency standards for gas consumption by cars, and energy consumption of air conditioners. Do you think those are overbearing as well?</p>
<p>You still have choices even w/o CFLs. Buy a lifetime supply of incandescent bulbs now. Or buy three-way bulbs. Or buy halogens. Or buy LEDs.</p>
<p>I’ll put up with CFLs, save energy, and wait for LEDs to become affordable, realizing that these issues are, realistically, little more than petty, first-world problems.</p>