I already know UNC takes very few OOS students. Very few. Like almost none. I get that. Still, I’m trying to decide whether to support my son applying or not. Until now, I had it completely written off-- so much so that when we went to the Carolinas to visit schools, I didn’t even take him to see it (and we saw Duke!) But now, it looks like the UNC supplementals are in keeping with several he is already sending out and it wouldn’t be all that difficult to apply. He is what I would call a ‘strong student’ but doesn’t have these crazy-high test scores (earned a 30 ACT), he is from Maine which is not heavily represented at UNC (looks to me like most OOS students there are from CA, TX, FL, GA, IL, NY, PA, VA). He has taken a rigorous schedule and is continuing that rigor this year (AP Stats, AP Lit, AP Physics C). He has owned his own BBQ business-- which has grown and he has become quite the local celebrity chef-- since the age of 12 (his response to the pandemic) and wrote a compelling essay about that experience in his common app… In other words, he’s rather well-rounded and a little unique. I’m not asking whether he’ll get in (he likely will not) but are we just crazy for even thinking about sending an EA app? Would we just be throwing $85 away?
He can apply if he wants to. As you noted, it likely is a reach school for him and especially as an OOS student. As long as he has his sure thing applications sent also, and has other more realistic colleges for admission, I don’t see anything g wrong with applying to a reach school.
If you can comfortably afford the application fee, and if the NPC shows that you can afford the school….I think it’s fine to apply.
You are right in that the school is a reach. Are you ok with applying to reach schools? Make sure he has likely schools on his list.
Agree…as long as the application fee is comfortably affordable it is fine to apply to a mix of reach, match, and safety schools. This way he never will have to wonder “what if.”
Does your son have any intended major or desired career ?
Why does he want to attend UNC–or any other highly selective school ?
What are your son’s preferences ?
(OP: Regarding your question: You have received excellent advice above so I have nothing to add beyond ways to focus his application.)
Is your son applying to Duke? The acceptance rate is about 6%. UNC (OOS) in 2022 - acceptance rate was 8.2%.
They are both big reaches. There is nothing wrong with applying (as noted above) as long as there are likely schools as well (also noted above).
So my two cents is that while a 30 is on the low side of the competitive range for UNC, it is not entirely out of it. Moreover, take this for what it is worth, but UNC in my circles has a reputation of being more grade driven than test driven, and I think the data in their CDS seems to support that reputation:
So I am not one to say kids should always apply to a bunch of unrealistic aspirational colleges, as I think that can have not only monetary but also psychological costs. But IF this kid has really high grades–well, to me UNC is not necessarily unrealistic.
To paraphrase a popular CC adage, “You’ll never know unless you apply.”
I agree with others, if you can comfortably afford the application fee and the OOS tuition, fees & travel if he gets in, then apply. There may be something in his application that stands out to UNC admissions. Just know that there are no magic scholarships to UNC. The top awards are given to a few of the very top students - so if it’s not a school you can afford, don’t cross your fingers for any merit money.
They actually fill 18% of their freshman class with OOS students. That percentage is not very different from many other public schools. But yes, it’s very competitive for OOS applicants.
I’m not sure that’s a strong reason to apply. If he really likes it and thinks it’ll be a good fit, then give it a shot (with the understanding that it’s going to be a reach). But if it’s not high on his desirability scale, I wouldn’t bother.
He is thinking business and is particularly interested that UNC has a consulting concentration and that Kenan-Flagler has such a tremendous reputation. He likes the idea of a big school in a warm place with a strong sports culture. He is giving up playing baseball (had some very nice D3 schools interested in him: Villanova, U Chicago, MIT, and even “baby” D1 Davidson) in order to have that “big campus experience.” But he is driven and wants to go somewhere he feels like he can get a stellar education. He is also applying to UGA, and is aware that too is a reach but UNC even more so. His other reaches are Wake Forest and U Miami. His targets are SMU, Univ of San Diego, Univ of S Carolina, U of Minnesota and his safeties are ASU, UNC Charlotte and Univ of Alabama.
He’ll have very close to a 4.0 unweighted, but an aggressive schedule with AP’s. His senior schedule is: AP Physics C, AP Stats, AP Lit, Economics, Spanish 3, and Guitar.
That’s not his reason for applying-- he was VERY interested in UNC but I along with his college counselor basically told him it was impossible. It’s still basically impossible but unlike U Michigan (another one he was super interested in) UNC’s supplemental essays are aligned with others he has written so it’s not a burden the way it would be to apply to U Michigan which has supplementals that have no overlap with any he has written (and he has written 13 supplementals!)
Oh, we are aware that there will be no money at the end of the rainbow!
I agree with others that no reason to not put in an app. But KF requires a secondary admission process after first or second year, and that process is holistic…meaning one can have a very high GPA and control everything they can control and still not be accepted. That is a risk, and he should have a plan B at UNC should he not gain admission to KF. Undergraduate Business for High School Students | UNC Kenan-Flagler Business School
I notice IU Kelley isn’t on the list…not sure if he meets the direct admit criteria there (3.8 GPA weighted or unweighted, must be on the transcript and a 30 ACT, which he has.) Would that school appeal at all?
He’s actually NOT applying to Duke. Although beautiful and prestigious, it did not appeal to him when we visited. The students seemed very stressed out and it was only the first day back after a break!
I appreciate the suggestion, but he is adamantly opposed to the midwest, outside of MN. We have extended family there and he has spent time in Minneapolis and really likes the vibe. But seriously, thanks for the suggestion-- I love that tuition number!
Just to add on to this, the business-related back up for not gaining admission to KF is an economics degree (so would have to like econ). My daughter is a KF grad and has friends who were econ majors who did just as well with job prospects after graduation - the caveat being that they don’t have the networking and intern placement services that the KF students have - but my daughter has worked side-by-side with UNC econ grads in her finance career. Either way, a degree from UNC is a good piece of paper to have. Also note that there is an additional tuition upcharge if admitted to KF.
IME many majors can prepare a student for business careers in banking, consulting, etc. Humanities and STEM are well represented…math, English, stats, for example. My D was a neuroscience major (not at UNC) and works as an investment banker.
Some things to check at any school that requires secondary admission to a business school is if a student in other colleges can get a minor in business, and whether or not students from other schools can go to the business career fairs (for schools that might hold those separately.)
Yes, of course. But specific to UNC/KF, some applicants express concern with what happens if they don’t get admitted to KF (e.g. is there a business-related major outside of KF), so I was sharing that perspective. My KF daughter wasn’t a finance major either but now works in CIB.
It is interesting that Carolina now considers rigor of secondary school and GPA as “very important” admissions factors; for many years, and until recently, standardized test scores were considered a “very important” admissions factor, and GPA and rigor of secondary school were less important. I suppose that it is a response to Students for Fair Admissions, Inc. v. UNC.