Openly Gay Student's Lawsuit

[JHUway]

<p>Privacy Rights?

“This is the first court ruling we’re aware of where a judge has recognized that a student has a right not to have her sexual orientation disclosed to her parents, even if she is out of the closet at school,” said Christine Sun, a lawyer at the American Civil Liberties Union, who brought the case.

<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/02/education/02schools.html?th=&adxnnl=1&emc=th&adxnnlx=1133525597-lF9eOiusn5SrdOT+BDaceQ[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/02/education/02schools.html?th=&adxnnl=1&emc=th&adxnnlx=1133525597-lF9eOiusn5SrdOT+BDaceQ&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[ariesathena]

<p>Confused by what happened. Would a heterosexual student have been so disciplined? Did she attempt to provide a compelling reason for not disclosing this to her parents, such as fear of harm?</p>

<p>Also confused as to why the sexual orientation was disclosed. I think we can all see the problems that the opposite ruling would have: would school officials automatically inform parents every time a child was suspected of being gay?</p>

<p>If parents have a right to see report cards, to refuse consent to field trips, etc., then why is the disclosure bad? </p>

<p>Just for the record, I really don’t agree with the holding - just think that, while the ideal situation is to let children tell their parents on their own time, that there is no constitutionally-protected interest in the same, absent fear of imminent harm by such disclosure. Just don’t think that the school’s place is in outing students to their parents.</p>

[emeraldkity4]

<p>I would have a couple questions
are other student couples suspended from school for PDAs?
Were Ms Nugon and her friend handled in the same way?
If not- I think it was a breach of responsibility for the principal to “out” her. If the principal knew that her parents didn’t “know” about her orientation, and that the daughter did not want them told- a reasonable assumption would have been that to "come out " to them wouldn’t be physically/emotionally safe.
For a principal to behave in such a way- seems lacking in judgment.
The principals role should be to provide a strong academic environment for students- I don’t see how calling a students parents and telling them about her sex life- contributes to that</p>

[Northstarmom]

<p>I agree with emeraldkity4.
The story lacks a lot of important details and doesn’t explain whether she was treated differently than heterosexual couples who act similarly.</p>

[marite]

<p>Well, I would assume that if the principal caught two heterosexual students kissing or one whispering sweet nothings into a cellphone to the other, the principal would not feel the need to disclose the student’s sexual orientation to the parents, right? So, right off the bat, the gay student WAS treated differently, and only because of her sexual orientation.</p>

[Woodwork]

<p>I don’t quite understand the story myself. However, looking at the actions taken after the litigious phone call made by the responsible adult (principal), I’m inclined to think that more than one person had an agenda going here.</p>

<p>As to the kissing and sweet nothings, I was once busted for an over abundance of public passion my junior year in high school (I recall, that amongst many other clever verbal ejaculations of my human rights, indignantly quipping “nobody tells me want to do on my time” (meaning, between classes). But having been collared and suspended for my repeatedly bold and valiant romantic acts I, sadly, did not have the chutzpa to seek financial restitution and now I believe it is probably too late to hop on the kiddy rights money train. </p>

<p>Seems her parents, at least, are happy to be part of the common knowledge that their daughter has a steady and passionate girlfriend.</p>

<p>I was always interested in knowing the people my daughter dated and I expect to be the same way with my son…and I certainly hope, even now, that she would not feel comfortable with letting everyone in her life know, but her mother and me.</p>

[marite]

<p>The principal was within rights to suspend a student for using a PDA if that is the policy and it is consistently enforced. But going one step further and notifying the student’s parents of her sexual orientation? Imagine the scenario: “You will want to know that I suspended your son for using his PDA in school in violation of the Student’s Code of Conduct p. xxx. Oh, and by the way, did you know that your son is heterosexual?” Yeah, right.</p>

[Screenname]

<p>Marite: PDA is also an acronym for Public Display of affection.</p>

<p>What bothers me about the versions of the article I’ve read is that the principal seems to have a vendetta against the students. He has no right to seperate them beyond keeping them within school guidelines.</p>

[Woodwork]

<p>Marite, </p>

<p>My parents, as all parents, were notified when I was suspended. That’s the way it’s done. They also say why you were suspended…it is not a little secret between the suspended student and the principal…I don’t supose that anyone figured I was making out with myself…the girl was involved and known, after all.</p>

[marite]

<p>Screenname: LOL, thanks for setting me straight! (no pun intended).
Okay, from today’s NYT:

Ms. Nguon field suit in September after a year of run-ins with Ben Wolf, the principal of Santiago High School in Garden Grove, CA, over her hugging, kissing and holding hands with her girlfriend. Ms. Nguon was an all-A student, ranked in the top 5 percent of her class, with no prior record of discipline. But last year, after Mr. Wolf said he wanted to separate her from her girlfriend, she transferred to another school. Her grades slipped and her comute grew from a four block walk to a four and a half mile bike ride.

</p>

<p>When I was in high school we had dress codes and behavior codes that would appear antedeluvian to my kids. If kids were to be uniformly suspended for hugging, kissing and holding hands with their girlfriends, half of our high school would be suspended (not all of them of the same sex, either). If the principal objected to the PDA (now that I get the meaning) as opposed to the sexual orientation, there was no call to try to separate the girls. Telling them to stop the overt displays should have been enough.</p>

[Woodwork]

<p>

Ms. Nguon filed suit in September after a year of run-ins with Ben Wolf, the principal of Santiago High School in Garden Grove, Calif., over her hugging, kissing and holding hands with her girlfriend…In its motion to dismiss the case, the district argued that Ms. Nguon had no legally protectable privacy right because she was “openly lesbian” and “constantly” hugging and kissing her girlfriend…The district also said Ms. Nguon had “an issue with authority” and was disciplined because of her defiance, not because of her homosexuality. Both Ms. Nguon and her girlfriend were suspended twice, once for a day and once for a week.

It may be that there will be plenty to be indignant about regarding the Principal’s behavior, but there is certainly nothing in the story that would yet warrant the wringing of hands here and now. Even more, here, on a parent’s forum, it may be of some interest that someone’s child was living their emotional and romantic life publicly in every way but that which would allow their own parents in on what was advertised, proudly, to all and sundry on school grounds.
As the story notes

"Charlene’s parents have been very supportive.”

Given the opportunity, Charlene’s parents seem to have supported their child…perhaps the principal was aware of the compassionate and loving demeanor the parents always possessed.</p>

[mini]

<p>I think Marite’s post #5 cuts to the heart of the matter.</p>

[emeraldkity4]

<p>“I just don’t understand why my girlfriend and I were not allowed to be
affectionate but other couples are,” Nguon said at a news conference
announcing the lawsuit.</p>

<p>It sounds like it wasn’t that she necessarily was being very overt with the affection- or even that the principal called her parents- but that she was treated differently than other students- as I don’t imagine that other couples are told that one of the pair will have to transfer to another school.</p>

[Woodwork]

<p>Could be that the principal is a bigot who slipped through the cracks…on the other hand:

biology teacher Cheryl Garcia defended Principal Ben Wolf on Thursday, saying he treated Nguon and her girlfriend fairly. “We have other lesbian students and teachers here at Santiago,” Garcia said. "(Wolf and his staff) have never been hostile towards anyone. These allegations are absolutely not true… Garcia, a 17-year teacher at Santiago, said Wolf routinely tells all couples, regardless of sexual orientation, to stop when they “get too close…The difference is that they ignored him and continued to do it,” Garcia said of Nguon and her girlfriend. “What she’s doing now is really disrupting the school.”

<a href=“http://ocregister.com/ocr/2005/09/09/sections/local/local/article_668615.php[/url]”>http://ocregister.com/ocr/2005/09/09/sections/local/local/article_668615.php&lt;/a&gt;

Nguon said, "I’m very stubborn and I don’t like it when people try to stomp on my rights… Several parents contacted said they would prefer that public displays of affection by all students, regardless of their sexual orientation, be discouraged at school.”

<a href=“http://ocregister.com/ocr/2005/09/08/sections/local/local/article_667204.php[/url]”>http://ocregister.com/ocr/2005/09/08/sections/local/local/article_667204.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>" </p>

<p>"</p>

[emeraldkity4]

<p>I would agree that PDAs are not appropriate at school-
kiss on teh cheek- handholding- arms around waist- fine- but nothing else.
( so if thats all they do at school- how do they get to simulated sex at dances?)</p>

<p>I can also see a teen being defiant- ( who knew?) but I assume this was researched- and isn’t just a case of trying to paint the educationl system as homophobes.</p>

[interesteddad]

<p>Mini:</p>

<p>Yep. Seems to me that the appropriate response would have centered exclusively on the behavior. It would have been quite easy to contact the parents and discuss the public display of affection with no need whatsoever to identify the partner.</p>

[xiggi]

<p>I am not sure what is more ridiculous … that such a case could find a place in our judicial system -as well as a lunatic judge- or the declarations of the student. </p>

<p>Darn, I feel so bad the poor girl had to flee to her room to cry or had to travel 4.5 miles to another school. Yeah, right!</p>

[marite]

<p>Xiggi:</p>

<p>I do not think it is a huge imposition for the girl to have to travel 4.5 miles to another school. But I do question the actions of the principal. Did he apply the no PDA policy consistently? Did he have to tell her parents (without knowing in advance that they would be supportive, as they turned out to be)? Why did he feel it necessary to separate the two girls? Were they continuing prohibited behavior after being warned off or did he act differently toward them because of their sexual orientation? Inquiring minds would like to know.</p>

[Crash_Blair]

<p>Something like this shouldn’t go on her school record though, sheesh!</p>

[xiggi]

<p>Marite</p>

<p>It is obvious that the girl visibly pushed the envelope -by her own admission- and ended up being suspended. I do not think that the facts that led to the suspension are that important. </p>

<p>This is not a case of discrimination of a gay person. The ridicule of this case is that this person is seeking to protect her rights of privacy in spite of her questionable behavior in a public space. Her expectations of privacy -the key element here- are de facto undermined by her own actions in a PUBLIC space. This is very different from a case where the principal would have disclosed facts or information that are protected by law. The judge who allowed this case to proceed must have his own agenda.</p>

<p>Makes you also wonder about the involvement of ACLU.</p>