Opinion on chances

CalParent · February 4, 2007, 2:12pm

If an adcom committee at Andover or Exeter observed in interviews or received teacher recommendations that showed the following characteristics, do you think they would still seriously consider the student or do you think they would be pretty much ruled out immediately?

1) “Modest to the point of near invisibility …”

2) “failed entrance exams on the first try” … “bright but not outstanding student”

3) “not especially brilliant” … “pretty terrible at mathematics” … “often gets lost in his own equations and gives up” … “not particularly clever in the lab”

4) “such a sluggish student” father recommends he should work resoling shoes.

5) Pained his father with “lackluster academic performance” to the point where father declared “You care for nothing but shooting, dogs, and rat-catching and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family”

6) “Unreasonable, secretive, chronically uncooperative”

system · February 4, 2007, 2:31pm

Is this serious? Why would they consider this student???

Inquiring_mind · February 4, 2007, 2:43pm

I believe these quotes/attributes refer to a famous successful individual

creasemonkey · February 4, 2007, 2:55pm

Charles Darwin

CalParent · February 4, 2007, 4:08pm

Very good number 5 was Darwin.

But before we get to who is who. I am still curious about people’s opinions.

Would any of these people (who were objectively described as in the first post at the top of thread) get into a “top” prep school?

In case I was not clear, each of the 6 quotes refers to a different student. Perhaps you will think some would get in and some would not?

I will throw out my personal opinion to get the ball rolling:

1) “Modest to the point of near invisibility …”

Might do well on the SSAT but would certainly blow the interview and student questionnaire. I don’t know about the other schools but Thacher has a self-eval section and this guy is not looking good on a self-eval.

2) “failed entrance exams on the first try” … “bright but not outstanding student”

This one has no “hooks” (not an athelete or legacy or parents ready to make a big donation). Based on what I have heard on this board “bright” but “not outstanding” with no hooks, is a loser.

3) “not especially brilliant” … “pretty terrible at mathematics” … “often gets lost in his own equations and gives up” … “not particularly clever in the lab”

We can imagine how this one would do on the SSAT.

4) “such a sluggish student” father recommends he should work resoling shoes.

Probably would do well on SSAT (inherently bright kid) but has not found anything that motivates him yet. Probably would have weak grades and recommendations. Might slip into second tier but not bound for top school.

5) Pained his father with “lackluster academic performance” to the point where father declared “You care for nothing but shooting, dogs, and rat-catching and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family”

Not a natural leader. Doesn’t have a clear direction in life or passion (at least at 13 he didn’t). Clearly a reject from the point of view of an AdCom at one of the “most selective” schools.

6) “Unreasonable, secretive, chronically uncooperative”

You can imagine how the teacher recs and interview would go with this one. She is not getting in at a “top school”, may sneak into a “second tier”.

But the above is just my opinion what do you all think?

ChaosTheory · February 4, 2007, 4:10pm

I believe number 2 is Albert Einstein. Correct me if I am incorrect.

D_yer_Maker · February 4, 2007, 4:17pm

…is how would the students described here would fare around a Harkness table and in the kinds of environments at the most well-known U.S. boarding schools?

And maybe we could even try to figure out which schools would be the best fit for such a student (if any of them are a good fit at all) because, heaven forbid, we wouldn’t want to squelch any amazing achievements, though if there’s a chance we could improve on what history wrought, why not give it a shot?

CalParent · February 4, 2007, 4:19pm

We will get to who is who in a little bit.

What about the original question. Which (if any) of these six would get into a top tier “most selective” prep school?

What do you think Chaos?

What about everyone else, what do you think?

CalParent · February 4, 2007, 4:21pm

“try to figure out which schools would be the best fit for such a student”

that sounds like a good idea.

What do you think?

ChaosTheory · February 4, 2007, 4:24pm

Well, taking Charles Darwin as an example, here we have six people whose achievements come relatively later in life. As a child, Darwin had to work in a factory to support his family, which had been imprisoned in debtor’s jail. I believe that if given the opportunity to live in the modern world, these children would flourish, but at the time, they had other things to worry about. Would these children have known their future and made a decision to pursue something definite in life? Perhaps. But, It is hard to evaluate chances when many of these people lived in different time periods and had special restrictions which may have hindered their academic progress.

CalParent · February 4, 2007, 4:30pm

Are we talking about the same Darwin? I am not a Darwin expert, so I could have this wrong.

Here is an excerpt from wikipedia:

"He was the fifth of six children of wealthy society doctor …Darwin spent the summer of 1825 as an apprentice doctor, helping his father treat the poor of Shropshire. In the autumn, he went to the University of Edinburgh to study medicine, …In 1827, his father, unhappy at his younger son’s lack of progress, shrewdly enrolled him in a Bachelor of Arts course at Christ’s College, University of Cambridge to qualify as a clergyman, expecting him to get a good income as an Anglican parson. However, Darwin preferred riding and shooting to studying … "

Doesn’t sound like someone with limited opportunities in life. But was still seen (at least early in his life) as someone with “lackluster academic performance”

D_yer_Maker · February 4, 2007, 4:31pm

1, 2 and 5 could have files that recover or explain these items.

1: How many times have I read viewbook testimonials where students or parents or advisors boast how the school brought out the best in some previously strong introvert?

2: Bombed entrance exam on the FIRST try…yet bright. I wonder why this person’s not an outstanding student but is bright. If the test is retaken and there are other indicators that provide comfort to an AdCom…the factors that make a bright student seem to be not so outstanding might be the exact sorts of factors that make a boarding school the way to go…and a good applicant.

5) The ho-hum academic performance that ticked off this applicant’s dad suggest underachievement which – for reasons given at 2, above – could end up being a solid admit if the BS environment resolves the factors that have led to underachievement. But here there’s also the highly colorful background. This one’s hooked! He cares a lot about shooting, dogs and rat-catching? Man, I would at least look very much forward to the interview!

As for 3, 4 and 6:

3) There’s no glimmer of hope in what we’ve got here. I think I worked to find the silver linings with the other ones above. It’s just not happening for me with #3.

4) See #3.

6) If I admitted this one, I’d be sweating bullets until the day came when he finally climbed to the top of the library with the sniper rifle.

D_yer_Maker · February 4, 2007, 4:35pm

…we connect names to numbers. Would we have wanted Einstein to attend boarding school? Which one would have been the best fit?

Let’s hit those questions later on, when we have a more complete profile. I think it’s impossible to do more than make our admissions decisions (and even that exercise is pretty near impossible with such cryptic information).

CalParent · February 4, 2007, 4:37pm

Chaos -

I agree that different periods of time have dramatically different social conditions and that has a huge impact on on the average person’s life opportunities.

However, as it happens I don’t think that any of the particular folks that we are using as examples had “special restrictions which may have hindered their academic progress”, or at least no more so than the average person today. As far as I know none of them had to take factory jobs to support their families.

By the way, in your mind does “flourish” equate with “able to get into top prep school”?

I am not trying to pick on you, I am just trying to understand the attitudes of folks on the board.

D_yer_Maker · February 4, 2007, 5:36pm

BTW…

<h1>1: Could be about 1/3 to 1/2 of the world’s population, but maybe a small school environment where this person couldn’t slip through the cracks or a Harkness table would work best.</h1>

<h1>2: I wouldn’t mess with her(?) path to where she is.</h1>

<h1>3: This person is – I believe – one of the personalities that inspired the essay question for the Jan. 2006 SAT test (which asked whether great inventions were the result of brilliance or hard work). I know who it is…a key figure in Richard Rhodes’ “The Making Of The Atomic Bomb” (but that doesn’t give away the answer). Still, I can’t decide which – if any – BS would be a good fit.</h1>

If I’m not mistaken about the identity of #4, he would be impressed with the whale at Exeter but would probably attend St. George’s for its Geronimo program: <a href=“http://www.stgeorges.edu/geronimo/ship/[/url]”>http://www.stgeorges.edu/geronimo/ship/</a>.

<h1>5: DEFINITELY the same choice as #4. No doubts.</h1>

<h1>6…I’m thinking Westover – where she would be able to thrive without jealous (catty?) males who snipe at her for her brilliance.</h1>

ChaosTheory · February 4, 2007, 6:05pm

Ah, sorry, I was talking about Dickens. Whoops. :o I will post my answer to you, CalParent, in a little bit.

D_yer_Maker · February 4, 2007, 6:22pm

Darwin’s right…just not there.

CalParent · February 5, 2007, 7:24pm

1) “Modest to the point of near invisibility …”

J Willard Gibbs. Founder of modern thermodynamics.

2) “failed entrance exams on the first try” … “bright but not outstanding student”

Einstein. By the way in his twenties he applied and was rejected for jobs as both a university lecturer and high school teacher.

3) “not especially brilliant” … “pretty terrible at mathematics” … “often gets lost in his own equations and gives up” … “not particularly clever in the lab”

Rutherford. Noble Prize winner.

4) “such a sluggish student” father recommends he should work resoling shoes.

Linnaeus. Has current system of biological classification named after him.

5) Pained his father with “lackluster academic performance” to the point where father declared “You care for nothing but shooting, dogs, and rat-catching and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family”

Darwin

6) “Unreasonable, secretive, chronically uncooperative”

Rosalind Franklin. Other than Watson and Crick the person who probably contributed the most to the discovery of the structure of DNA.

D_yer_Maker · February 5, 2007, 8:16pm

I had no idea about #1. And I suspected Einstein for #2, but decided that it was actually Condoleezza Rice. The rest I figured out – with an assist from Google.

NOW…

…KNOWING ALL YOU KNOW ABOUT THESE PEOPLE (or what you can learn about them from Wikipedia or Google or actually reliable sources)

1) Which ones would have benefited from attending an American boarding school?; and

2) If so, which one would you pick?

My selections (for #3 through #6) are posted above. I’m going to ponder #1 and #2 now that I know who they are.

Opinion on chances

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