<p>How do you all personally define a “mistake”? I don’t simply mean making a typo or a grammatical error, but ethical and moral breaches (and perhaps even breaches of the law). Is what John Edwards did a mistake when he cheated on his wife? Is a student plagiarizing a paper a mistake?</p>
<p>We all make mistakes, right? But where do you draw the line on what a mistake is, and what is simply something unforgivable?</p>
<p>From my perspective, a mistake is unintentional, e.g., forgetting something. </p>
<p>A conscious decision such as cheating, lying, or stealing is not a mistake - it’s an error in judgement, a sin, a crime, or all three, depending on the offense and the point of view.</p>
<p>Semantics aren’t important and a black and white line isn’t important either. I think we can and do judge wrongful behavior in terms of its intentionality, the severity of the outcome, the extent to which the actor had responsibility and control over it, and could foresee its impact. </p>
<p>Sure, we all engage in mistakes, accidents, wrongful behavior and things we regret. But all such actions are not one and the same. </p>
<p>I do want to add, however, that very few things, in my books, are ‘unforgivable’.</p>
<p>Ignorance does not get an excuse when making a mistake, whether it results in plagiarizing a paper when the student doesn’t know how to correctly cite a work, or when you aren’t sure what the speed limit is on a rural road.</p>
<p>However, I do feel intent counts for something- if to the best of your ability- you thought you were proceeding within allowed guidelines, that is much different than when you were aware of what was allowed- but ignored it & decided it didn’t apply to you.
( oh where have we read about that lately? :rolleyes: )</p>
<p>*From my perspective, a mistake is unintentional, e.g., forgetting something. </p>
<p>A conscious decision such as cheating, lying, or stealing is not a mistake - it’s an error in judgement, a sin, a crime, or all three, depending on the offense and the point of view.*</p>
<p>I agree…and, a mistake can also result from being given wrong info. </p>
<p>I would also add… if the accident is the result of irresponsible behavior (such as driving recklessly), then it’s not an “accident.” It’s the result of a conscious decision.</p>
<p>I remember telling my kids…If you accidentally break something, then that’s just a human mistake, but if you throw a ball in the house (which is against the rules) and something gets broken, then that is not an accident or mistake.</p>
<p>Should we include “bad judgment” in the mix?</p>
<p>People sometimes use bad judgment because they don’t always have the discernment or foresight to think thru the possible consequences. Are the negative consequences “mistakes”?</p>
<p>How one answers depends on how one frames the question. We all err and that leads to religious concepts of confession, repentance and forgiveness (both by people and by the religion’s God). </p>
<p>A rigorous, generally non-religious way of looking at mistakes is done in law. What Edwards did was an intentional act. It was willful. Causing a pregnancy may not have been his actual will at the moment, but he willfully engaged in the affair and willfully took on the risks that she might get pregnant. He may also have been negligent in contraception but that’s only relevant if you want to discuss that particular part of a pattern of willful conduct. </p>
<p>The usual steps are negligence, gross negligence and intentional or willful acts. A negligent act can be an “oops, I spilled the coffee because I wasn’t paying enough attention.” (Note that spilling coffee because you’re startled is likely not negligent and the person who startled you may have been negligent in causing you to spill.)</p>
<p>Gross negligence is bad negligence, meaning you did something a reasonable person in that situation would know not to do - or you did it really badly. So you’re trained to drive a forklift and you know it’s dangerous but you answer your phone and run the forklift into the office. That’s gross negligence; the driver knew not to answer the phone but tried to do both anyway and the results are kind of gross.</p>
<p>You can actually imply willfulness because there are situations where a person should know and you can assume he did - even if he denies it because people lie. </p>
<p>A “mistake” to me means negligence, meaning an “oops” level, not an intentional or willful act but an error, not something done so poorly that you can say the person did it anyway. </p>
<p>Oddly, in religion, people find ways to excuse willful and intentional acts as much or more than they do negligent acts. I find this odd but predictable because people aren’t taught the legal analytic structure. In a religious sense, I’d say, “John Edwards acted with intent. He then lied repeatedly about what he did, which is also intentional. He has to confess but I wouldn’t trust his repentance much at all because I’d think it likely he is acting repentant.” Remember that Jacob offered Esau all he had to make up for stealing Esau’s place in birthright. All he had was equal to what he took, which speaks directly to the ancient notion of equating repentance to the act and punishment to the crime.* I have no idea what Edward could do to convince me he’s worth much of anything.</p>
<p>*Two quick notes if anyone is interested. First, you see some really absurd to our eyes demonstrations of this. For example, Babylonian law said (which may of course be different from what was actually done) that if a house fell and killed the owner’s son then the son of the house builder would be killed. Second, eye for an eye is actually a manifestation of mercy not of mandatory vengeance; one could always decline vengeance but eye for eye limited vengeance so one would not be like Lamech, a descendant of Cain, who boasted that he killed young men for insulting him. That was disproportionate and so the limit was merciful.</p>
<p>Dictionary definition of mistake: a wrong action or statement proceeding from faulty judgment, inadequate knowledge or inattention. </p>
<p>I would consider John Edwards’s action a mistake from faulty judgment. I think that he could honestly say–“The biggest mistake I ever made in my life was not being faithful to my wife.”</p>
<p>[Off topic: Why is Elizabeth Edwards deciding that now is the time to divorce?]</p>
<p>To clarify, in case any one needs clarification, the examples I gave are just simply examples. I wasn’t able to think of anything else at the moment. </p>
<p>Following ellen’s definition, is spreading rumors about someone and running your mouth off about something you know nothing about a mistake?</p>
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<p>Perhaps she thought she could forgive and get over this, but has since concluded that she cannot.</p>
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<p>Here’s one analysis: Spreading rumors is equated in Talmudic Law with being a thief, because you are stealing someone’s name and reputation by “bad words” or gossip. So there’s no such thing as “idle gossip” in that ethical treatise; rather, gossip compares to stealing – so right up there on the Top 10 list. Perhaps it’s the basis of our libel/slander laws today? Oh wait, I’m not sure what I’m talking about, being Not a Lawyer (but admiring them).</p>
<p>Running your mouth off about something you know nothing about is a social mistake because nobody will listen to you much. I guess. If you talk incorrectly about the periodic tables in chemistry at work such that someone blows up your building… oh wait, I don’t know what I’m talking about there.</p>
<p>I remember in a (maybe the first) West Wing episode, Sam tells Toby that he “accidentally slept with a prostitute.” Toby said, “Did you trip?”</p>
<p>:-)</p>
<p>What really gets me is when someone says, “I’m sorry, I made a mistake.”, when it was something they did (like cheating on a spouse) intentionally. Maybe it’s semantics, but to me it sounds like avoiding responsibility. To me a mistake is an error. Like you think something is right or correct, but it turns out to be wrong. Not that you KNOW something is wrong and that you shouldn’t do it, but you do it anyway. How is that a “mistake”?</p>
<p>To me a mistake is doing something you should not have done. To them, a mistake is getting caught.</p>
<p>*Why is Elizabeth Edwards deciding that now is the time to divorce? *</p>
<p>Maybe she realizes it’s a way to get her money separated, so that her kids can inherit her share when she dies.</p>
<p>Maybe she fears that if she doesn’t divorce him, then he’d get EVERYTHING when she dies, and if he were to remarry, then the new wife might get her kids’ share. This way, she’s also preventing the love child from getting any of “her half.”</p>
<p>I can’t say that spreading rumors or being a blowhard is a mistake because all society is based on information sharing and, in the abstract, a rumor can be valuable information. The Talmud points out the downside and discusses when you should be silent. As for spouting off, that’s part of community and conversation, part of having an opinion. The mistake would be in not listening or being open to new information or altering your opinion when facts conflict with it.</p>
<p>As usual I find Lergnom’s posts interesting because they deepen my understanding.</p>
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<p>Lergnom, is the difference “rumors” in the form of commercial information (e.g., stock tips, real estate trends, etc…) versus personal behavior?</p>
<p>For example: If the rumor is that a mini-mall is going up on 101 Maple Street and you were moving to that community, about to buy a house on 102 Maple Street, then I agree that rumor might be valuable information. It might adjust how much you offer on the property, by simply clueing you in to know what most other residents of that area already know.</p>
<p>But if the rumor is that the family moving in next door has a dad on parole, and it’s untrue…then it robs them of their good reputation before you even meet them the first time. Or if the rumor is that X is having an affair with Y, I can’t see how knowing that has value to anyone except X’s mate’s lawyer as divorce proceedings move forward.</p>
<p>And to return to the OP’s original thread title, how do I personally define a mistake?</p>
<p>I think often about 5 areas that I was taught define ethical human behavior, regardless of faith: murder, adultery, stealing, blaspheming and dishonoring a parent. (I didn’t make up those 5 categories, BTW. They’re the Noahide Covenant. That is – in short form: what is expected of any decent human being, regardless of chosen faith.)</p>
<p>If someone transgresses in those 5 categories, I am deeply troubled when someone calls their action “a mistake.” The impacts on others are profound. </p>
<p>To give examples, under that system, if someone commits a murder, sleeps with my partner, steals from my store or home, does violence in the name of a deity, or fails to provide necessary food/clothing/shelter for a parent, it’s unforgiveable so don’t ask me to. </p>
<p>All other categories of human behavior, for me, I could come to forgive, depending on circumstances. </p>
<p>Reading it here, it sounds rigid, but it leaves open for forgiveness much more than it closes off in those 5 important categories.</p>
<p>“or fails to provide necessary food/clothing/shelter for a parent”</p>
<p>I’d add your child to that phrase and then agree that paying3 has nailed it!</p>
<p>Adding to what paying3tuitions posted, I have heard the supporters and sometimes the criminal state that “he made some mistakes” or even worse “he made some bad choices”. To me that attempts to tirvialize crimes like muder, rape and such. And I hear it all the time. The girl recntly found murderd near C’Ville made mistake. Her killer did not. He’s a vicious criminal who deserves a very high penalty.</p>
<p>So, why do some people who make poor decisions act as those they are perfect and other people around them that make bad decisions are defective, bad human beings?</p>