I can’t think of any viable defenses for listing a degree one didn’t actually earn on Linked-In when it could be so easily verified by anyone as the reporters who made inquiries shown when they did and Harvard confirmed that while he was in the program, he left after ~2 years without PhD.
Especially in light of some recent stories of employees…including senior execs who ended up getting fired after being found to have lied about earning degrees they didn’t actually earn.
I can’t believe there are actually people…parents no less who are actually defending the very act of lying about one’s credentials on a resume/CV/Linked-In as Damore has demonstrably done.
And forgetting that alone is not only sufficient grounds for termination from employment alone, but also calls his personal credibility and thus, his memo into further serious question.
Moreso when his defenders initially cited the fact he had that very unearned degree as one basis for giving him strong scientific/intellectual cred.
And it was a hole he dug all by his lonesome. Can’t blame anyone else for that but himself…
Ironic considering some of those very parents would in other contexts, be citing cases like his to tell their own/other students to avoid doing the same.
^That looks like an internal classification that has nothing to do with real world employment credentials. You either have a PhD diploma or you don’t. You either passed the bar or you are not an attorney even if you have a JD. And so on. This is how the corporate world rolls.
I have watched a couple of his interviews and he seems to be constantly saying “that’s not what I meant, I love google and was only trying to help.” But when it comes to anti-discrimination laws or anti-harassment policies within a corporation I am not sure what he “intended” to mean is what governs. If he creates an environment hostile to women by distributing that memo, that is what Google is going to focus on. How are they supposed to know what he really meant?
I think Google may have done him a favor in asking him to move on. It presents a real problem for him if he stays as I cannot imagine that too many women would want to work for this guy. His opportunities for upward mobility are severely limited.
I don’t know but when I watched the interviews part of me thinks this is just a very clueless guy who might be very intellectually talented in certain areas, but has absolutely no clue when it comes to social interaction or politics within an organization. If that is the case then it’s just a shame that his education in these areas has to come at such a high cost.
My company currently has 2 ABD in absentia students who are finishing their phds in parallel with their work for the company. The term may not apply in some fields, but that does not make it meaningless or nonexistent.
Your company is an outlier. Most corporations would not let someone finish a graduate degree on company’s time even if they pay the tuition (work during the day, go to classes at night). And listing a PhD on one’s LinkedIn profile is a huge no no until the person gets the actual diploma. In some programs, the students are specifically instructed to list their degree status as a “candidate” until that final clearance.
^At no point have i tried to excuse or defend his claim to have a phd. I really regret even bringing up the abd possibility because it seems to be quite a sore point for some people.
@cobrat I realize that you are passionate about this issue, but don’t twist my meaning. I am not defending lying. My point is that we do not have all the information regarding this case, so I will reserve judgement.
I agree with @HarvestMoon1 . Like many techies, Damore is probably a skilled coder, but lacks social skills, which is why he did not anticipate this fallout.
I agree, its not a credential, it’s an education status. Taking student before they defend is really to our benefit, because students are very happy to start making better money sooner, and then they are more likely to stick around after finishing just due to inertia and sunk cost. Its a great way to lock in new talent.
:Listing oneself on an ABD is meant as a signal one has usually passed all grad classes, comps and core critical skills(i.e. foreign languages, quant skills, etc), and submitted a dissertation proposal and have it approved by his/her advisor and committee. In short, one is at an advanced stage of a PhD program in which one is conducting research/writing to complete and submit one’s dissertation. It also addresses any time time-gaps.
It also signifies one is usually nearing the end of their PhD program…very different from someone who leaves with a consolation masters as a result of failing one’s comps or in some cases…before reaching the comp stage of the program if one left in as little as ~2 years in some programs in which comps are usually taken in the 3-4 year of one’s program.
One question even non-academic employers would ask if someone listed ABD is to ask them what’s the topic and title of their dissertation and sometimes verify it with the individual’s advisor/academic department.
Comparing it to other professional degrees like JD, MBA, or MD is like comparing apples and durians as none of those programs have multiple stages nor do any of them require a research-oriented dissertation contributing original research or an original new interpretation on previously done research.
If anything, they’re usually completed after completing required courses in 3-4 years and in a few cases, completing professional internships(i.e. medical rotations during med school).
Relating this back to Damore, unless his program is highly unusual, it’s unlikely he even completed the comps stage considering he left after ~2 years.
Lying on a resume or Linked page goes to character in my opinion. I have seen resumes that indicate someone is still in a doctoral program. He should have had that model to use, if he didn’t intend to deceive.
I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. I can believe he is just clueless. However, his actions since the firing are troubling to me. His choice of venues for interviews may also be clueless. Eventually, though, I’m going to give up trying to think up excuses for him.
It also seems possible to me that he is really being taken advantage of by groups who’ve just been waiting for someone like him to come along. Or that the whole thing was planned in advance.
It always distresses me when young people make what I would consider to be very bad choices, and it plays out in the international news.
The problem is he listed he actually had had a PhD from Harvard when he not only never earned it, but that Harvard confirmed to a reporter he left after ~2 years.
And that would mean that even listing himself as ABD would have been as bad as it’s unlikely he completed his comps/core skill exams and had his dissertation proposal submitted and approved for him to enter the dissertation stage of his program.
It was only after inquiries were made about him and his credentials that he amended his Linked-In to reflect the degree he actually earned…an MS which is likely a “consolation masters” for leaving considering there’s no stand-alone MS program offered in that department.
There would have been no issue if he had listed the degree he actually earned in the first place.
It was a hole he dug all by his lonesome and he has no one to blame but himself for it.
^. Good. Ironic (?) that the former employee’s name is “white”. These extremists have earned the right to experience feeling the hate they spew. Not imagining he has too many like-minded cronies in Berkeley. Well, hopefully not.
Considering the large numbers of online folks denouncing Damore’s firing as “violation of his free speech” and “silencing which goes against the First Amendment”…including by some here on this thread…wouldn’t be surprised if they make the same specious arguments.
And in so doing, forget that the First Amendment only applies to government actions…not those of private individual citizens, business like Google or that restaurant, or yes…private universities.
Dude’s memo was an offensive sexist rant. Yes, I read it. The whole insufferable thing.
Companies that employ ranting sexists run the liability of sexual discrimination cases.
You fire people who are liabilities to your company and its reputation.
At work, you keep your mouth shut about religion, politics, and any potentially inflammatory opinion you have about race/gender/sexual identity. This is common sense. If you’re too stupid to do that…out you go. It’s not your company. Your potentially offensive opinion is not necessary or welcome.