Chance Rising Senior w/ Biology/ Statistics Interest for EA & RD [TN resident, 3.93 GPA, 1470 SAT, <50k Tuition]

Chance Me / Match Me
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1

Hello! I am trying to narrow down my college list and make sure it is reasonable. The schools I have are:
Duke
Vanderbilt
Emory
UNC-Chapel Hill
University of South Carolina- BS/MD Program
UVA
UTK
UF
UIUC
UMich
UW
BU
Cornell

Major
I am planning to eventually go to medical school, and I currently am thinking about being a statistics and biology major but I’m not sure which one I should apply as. I also want to continue music in college and don’t know whether I should do a minor or major (for money purposes like scholarships)

Tuition
Also, a big thing for my parents is that tuition is <50k. However, a main issue, that prevented me from ED to Duke, Vandy, or Emory was that currently no aid was being offered due to international assets.

Here are my stats:

Demographics:

  • US Citizen in Southeast
  • Large Public High School (575 in graduating class)

GPA, Test Scores, and Rank
GPA: Weighted- 4.42 | Unweighted- 3.93
SAT: 1470 {780 math & 690 r&w} currently- expected 1500+ by the time of applications (hopefully)
15 APs upon graduation
No Class rank

EC:
Currently a research assistant at a local college about alcohol consumption in schizophrenia patients when on nicotine. (11,12)
Editor-In-Cheif of School newspaper (12), CoEditor-In- Chief (11), Photography Editor (10)
Local Emergency Department Shadowing (9,10,11,12)
Varsity Tennis Team Player, Captain (11,12)
American Red Cross Intern for Volunteer Engagement (11,12)
Co-Founder & Vice-President of Women in STEM Club at school (11,12)
Class President (10,11,12)
Concertmaster of Youth Orchestra since the age of 11 (Age of 8- Present)
Attended Tennesee Governor’s School for Science and Engineering ( roughly 10% acceptance rate) (11)
Tutor for elementary kids (11,12)
1st violinist of college orchestra (11,12)
Vice President of Civenettes Club- Club that fundraiser to host winter formal for our school (9,10,11,12)

Awards:
-Bristol Music Scholarship Competition

  • 1st overall prize (11)
    -All-East Conference (9,10)
  • 1st violin, 4th chair (9)
  • 2nd violin, 3rd chair (10)
    -All-State Conference (9,10)
  • 1st violin, 10th chair (9)
  • 2nd violin, 2nd chair
    -Rotary Girl’s Tennis Tournament: Draw B (11)
  • Number three doubles runner-up
    -District Runner-Up Division I Girls Tennis Class AA (9)
    -District Champion Division I Girls Tennis Class AA(10)
    -Regional Champion Division I Girls Tennis Class AA (10)
    -State Champion Division I Girls Tennis Class AA (10)
    -District Runner-up Division I Girls Tennis Class AA (11)

Recommendations
AP Calc BC Teacher (9/10)- I think he really liked me and has complimented my work ethic multiple times and have been told by my peers that he definitely likes me!
AP Seminar/ AP Lang Teacher (7-8/10)- I had a lot of deep convos with her and she seemed to like my work ethic as well as my writing style. I’ve just heard she doesn’t write the best recs, but they’re still pretty good
Counselor (8/10)- My counselor changed my junior year, but we’ve established a strong connection and I talk to her a lot! She’s always open to my questions and personally asked me to help with freshman orientation, so I’m hoping she can write a pretty personal rec despite being in such a large school!

Thank you for your help!

2

For med school and your majors, the where won’t matter. But budget as noted will.

What is your home state ?

Are you open to other schools ?

While Vandy and Emory make sense as a Hail Mary - meaning a small chance you get enough merit, Cornell makes zero sense if you don’t qualify for need aid - as they don’t give merit.

I ask your state because UVA is an even bigger Hail Mary than Emory and Vandy if you don’t have need and are out of state.

Need you to be more specific than SE and I assure you no one can identify you from knowing your state but could more specific guidance.

Right off the top, I can tell your list is not efficient. It’s a fine list but includes schools like Michigan and Washington that won’t work budget wise, in addition to Cornell.

3

Are you applying to your state schools? They should be on your list.

This list has a lot of big reaches (doesn’t mean you won’t get accepted) and many might not be affordable.

4

I’m from Tennessee in a rural city! I’m open to any school that will 1. Offer me money & 2. Give me the academic rigor I wish for! Thank you for your input, I will reconsider some of the schools on my list. If you have any school in specific you’d like to recommend I’d appreciate it a lot.

5

My state school is University of Tennessee Knoxville

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You are a very accomplished student and musician. There are schools that will be thrilled to have you.
You have a good chance at merit aid at certain schools.
If that 50K is all in (ie must cover tuition, housing, food, etc) you are going to need to run the numbers on all your schools first. If they are out of budget, they need to come off the list. Applying to schools you can not afford is pointless.
Med schools care about your college GPA and your MCAT scores. They also like you to be near the top of your college class. Going to a school where you get merit and maybe into an honors college may be advisable. The name of the college where you get your degree matters much less to med schools than it may to you or your parents.

Of the schools on your list, their total cost of attendance (based on a google search)

Duke, Cornell, Boston University, Emory around 90K

Vanderbilt, UVA out of state, UMich out of state about 80K

UNC, USouth Carolina, UIUC all out of state around 60K

UW (unsure which school you mean)

The only ones on the list that are affordable without a merit scholarship are UF and UTK
UF out of state 46K

UTK in state 35K

You need to expand your list. Does your school have a guidance counselor?

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Many people around me have told me to just apply to the places that I want to apply to, in addition to the budget-friendly ones, just to see if anything will be given but I’m not completely sure if that’s the smart thing to do? I know that at the end of the day, if I cannot get enough money for the places I want to go and my parents are unwilling to pay, I can always go to UTK (my state school) for “cheap”

My school does have a guidance counselor, but our school as a whole is very academically unmotivated so when I approach with questions outside the basic “can you change my schedule?” I can never get a good answer back.

8

I would remove the schools that do not look affordable because they do not give merit or the NPC is too high. Keep in mind that some of the schools on your list (ie Emory) do have merit, but it is highly, highly competitive. Other schools such as Cornell do not have merit- if the NPC shows a number that is too high, I would not apply.

I would add schools where you may get some merit: College of Charleston and UDel are 2 that come to mind. The SUNY schools might also come in at your price point. SUNY Geneseo and Binghamton come to mind and they give OOS merit.

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9

OK - thanks.

So first off - any school out there, especially your flagships, will have all the rigor you could want and more - whether through Honors, special seminars, and more. The entire - well a UVA or Michigan can get me rigor that another state school can’t is - frankly, not true. For example, you have more NMFs at Alabama than any public school and maybe any school - and nearly 2K kids from Texas, 1500 from Illiniois, and over 1K from other states including CA. Yes, smart kids like you are getting bought in - choosing over other schools you note. And it’s one example of many. Yes, there may be lesser kids there too - but not in the areas you’ll be.

So your least expensive schools will be UTK / UTC - and others but assuming you’d only consider UTK and then outside you have Alabama, with its McCullough Pre Med program, UAH, and Mississippi State is strong in STEM. All are $20K or less (at least the out of states). UAB is a major teaching hospital - if you like an urban school.

You have a budget - but then you put schools that can’t get you to budget - as you are full pay.

So lets look at your list and I’m assuming full pay as noted:

Duke - very little merit aid offered - so it’s a Hail Mary - ok to have one or two but assume you’re not going.

Vandy - a bit easier to get merit than Duke - but still difficult.

Emory - same

BU - highly unlikely to hit cost - but I suppose another hail mary.

Cornell - remove it - no merit aid. If you have a $200K budget, your folks aren’t going to want to stretch to $375K.

UVA - even harder - you’d need the Jefferson - so honestly, why bother - it’s $80K otherwise. Michigan is as well and UNC is above budget. UIUC and UW, while more likely admission wise, if your budget is true - you’re not going.

Now - if you want Hail Marys, a W&L might be worth it - smaller than your list - and perhaps an SMU Presidential - but again, these go in the category of maybe I apply for a few, knowing even if I get in, I can’t go.

So I get the sense you believe that they are “better” than the UTs and Alabama - not necessarily for your needs. But you can supplement them with other “ranked” schools that at least can or will hit $50K. You have UF ($45K) - how bout FSU - which will be under $40K and as low as $25K if you get an out of state waiver - and they have a living learning community that works. Purdue is $40K ish, UGA will meet budget, as will UMN with merit. Ohio State is another top 50 likely to hit budget. Stony Brook too although it might be too regional for you.

Lower ranked but arguably the top ranked Honors College which you’d be a candidate for - U of SC - also under budget. And while College of Charleston may be iffy budget wise, it’d be an easy budget fit if you were named a Fellow - another hail mary but you have the stats and background - and then you have opportunities others don’t - and MUSC is down the street for shadowing.

Here’s the thing - you are clearly rank focused - but did you know a year ago the ranks were different? Why? US News changed the methodology - so now schools like Wake, Tulane, Villanova - all previously top schools - plummeted. Vandy had a pancic attack and WUSTL is no longer a top 20. Are the schools any worse? Nope - rankings are to sell magazines, etc. Please don’t base your list on these. For all intents and purposes, UF is no different than Oklahoma, Oregon, or Colorado, etc. - large flagships with a ton of smart kids - yes, maybe on average more but still a ton.

And you have a budget - any time you have a budget, you have to work within that. So I’m a full pay dad (from TN) but my daughter was given a budget. She could apply to schools - like Vandy - that could hit target. But not schools that couldn’t - so Cornell was out. Her list was efficient. You need yours to be. Nothing worse than getting in somewhere you have zero chance to attend. And med school will care about your grades and MCAT, amongst other, not UVA or UTK.

So you can save money at a Bama, Ms State, UAH, UAB, UTK, UTC and more. You can come well under budget at schools I mentioned plus others lower ranked like Kansas, Iowa State, and more that are truly the equivalent.

If a bit smaller is better for you, you can look to a Miami of Ohio type school or Mercer / Denver types that likely would come under budget. Maybe a Brandeis would give you enough aid or a Rochester - maybe but still a reach that they will. Or a Trinity in San Antonio, etc.

So in short - your list is a nice list - but it’s not a nice list for the budget you described - so that’s what you need to fix. Lots of substitutional schools may get you there.

And any will get you to med school - and any big flagship will offer more than enough rigor - if you seek it out.

But budget first - and that’s a step you missed even though you called out your #.

Best of luck

PS - the more you save now, the less med school loans you have - and loans are a very bad thing. Sometimes necessary, especially in grad school, but always bad so the more you save now so you can borrow less later is a really good thing.

Program Description – McCollough Scholars (ua.edu)

Health Professions Learning Community - College of Health and Human Sciences (fsu.edu)

College of Charleston | Charleston Fellows

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Well you have 20 common app slots. If you like wasting time (apps) or just want to see, can I get into UVA, then it’s great.

If you get into UVA and then really want to go and you can’t…then it stinks.

In general, I’d say it’s a bad idea and you’re better to fill your slots with achievable results. But some kids just want to see.

Here’s the other thing - mine as an example - applied to 21. Some we could not visit until after acceptance - Miami of Ohio was a hard no after we visited - too rural. James Madison a hard no - because a highway split it. U of SC she loved but not as much as College of Charleston - where she’s a fellow and plenty of rigor - but #16 of 17 she got into.

So she turned down SC Honors, UGA Honors, UF, Wash & Lee and others…for one it made budget with fellow (W&L, UMD, American and others didn’t) and #2 it was the right fit.

So you don’t just want names - but you also want to be comfortable. It’s best to visit before you apply but if not, you can visit local schools. Do you like urban, suburban, rural, small, etc.

My daughter didn’t know at the time of applying Miami was too rural although we visited Elon which I loved but she thought was too rural. On the other hand, some schools were just too big - UGA’s campus was enormous - vs. a smaller one - which turned out to be her preference.

What’s your preference? For example, UF is quite large. FSU is smaller, etc. U of SC is smaller. Does that matter?

These are other important things -but first and foremost is budget - and I wholly disagree with the advice you were given - but at the same time, I know some students want to take their shot. But if it’s more essays and you have zero chance of going, do you want to do that??

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11

If your username is a reflection of your real name, I would urge you to change it.

12

For this combination of interests, also consider a major in data science with biology as your chosen “applied domain.”

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Thank you so much for your amazing advice. This helped incredibly; my parents and I have debated this for a while because quite frankly we can afford it, it’s just that my parents don’t want to pay 80-90k (reasonably). This is where the 50k budget came into play. They couldn’t decide if it was worth paying the extra $$$ for private schools or just sending me to my state school for undergrad and somewhere else for med is smarter so they said if I can get in somewhere with around 50k tuition they’d be willing to pay. I don’t necessarily hate UTK but the main turn-off for me is that too many people from my high school go there, and I currently do not like my high school experience so I don’t want college to be the same.

And to be completely honest, I just want to leave TN and move to a big city with a lot of diversity. Where I live, there are barely any Asians so I struggle with finding people to relate to & “fit in” with.

14

Yes, I realized and changed it! Thank you for looking out.

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There are more than 27k undergrads. Even if every single person you’ve ever gone to high school with attends, there’s probably at least 25k undergrads you’ve never met before in your entire life (assuming you went to a high school of 2k…if you attend a rural school I’m guessing it was smaller). Essentially, UTK won’t be like high school 2.0.

Okay, now we’re getting somewhere. You want to go out-of-state, be in a city, and have a higher percentage of Asians. Approximately what percentage of Asians would make you feel more comfortable? Also, to provide better suggestions of schools:

  • What size school do you prefer?
  • What size classes do you prefer?
  • Are there regions of the U.S. that you prefer (or prefer to avoid)?
  • How do you feel about significant enthusiasm for intercollegiate sports?
  • How do you feel about Greek life (fraternities/sororities)?
  • Is there anything else that will play a factor in your college selection? If so, what?
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Purdue - not the big city but a large Asian population. The school itself is a city.

Stony Brook another but many say it’s a suitcase school. So is Bing which would be less suitcase. Rutgers too and Brandeis as a small school sub as I noted.

At most flagships, you will likely find a larger Asians cohort than high school but admittedly still small as an overall percentage.

But not single digits like at some hs. UTK, as an example, has more than 1k Asian students.

There are affordable privates with your #s but not the high level ones. Lesser known LACs and privates. Brandeis is on the top % list. Others with big merit might be like Wooster - 78 of1876 Asian or Rhodes 169 of 1931 etc.

Lots of options ($20-50k) you want them to be in your parents comfort zone and then yours too.

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I would like if the Asian percentage is the 2nd or 3rd greatest percentage. I would like a school with at least 7k undergraduate students but don’t care if it’s bigger than that. I don’t care about the region as long as the school offers everything I wish for. I love college sports to watch, but they aren’t a make-it-or-break-it situation. And I don’t plan to join Greek life, but don’t mind if the school has it. I don’t have any other factors in my selection other than a bigger city, that can get me a good education, preferably outside of TN, and give me money (aid/merit, whatever it may be).

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Below are my guesses as to what your chances might be at the schools on your current list.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • UTK

Likely (60-79%)

  • UIUC

Toss-Up (40-59%)

Lower Probability (20-39%)

  • U. of Florida

Low Probability (less than 20%)

  • BU

  • Cornell

  • Duke

  • Vanderbilt

  • Emory

  • UMich

  • UNC-Chapel Hill

  • U. of South Carolina BS/MD

  • UVA

Below are some additional schools that you may want to consider, sorted by my guesses as to what your chances for admission might be. They’re mainly likely and extremely likely admits because you are such a strong candidate. At the Texas publics listed here there is often a waiver of out-of-state fees for students who receive even a modest (like $1k/year) merit scholarship.

Extremely Likely

  • DePaul (IL): About 14k undergrads in Chicago, 12% Asian (3rd highest)

  • Loyola Chicago (IL): About 12k undergrads, 13% Asian (3rd highest)

  • Saint Louis (MO): About 11k undergrads, 10% Asian (3rd highest, 2nd highest is race unknown)

  • U. at Buffalo (NY): About 21k undergrads, 17% Asian (2nd highest)

  • U. of Houston (TX): About 38k undergrads, 24% Asian (2nd highest)

  • U. of Minnesota – Twin Cities: About 39k undergrads, 12% Asian (2nd highest)

  • U. of Texas-Dallas: About 22k undergrads, 41% Asian (highest), and has a reputation as having more of an academic vibe. It pulls in a lot of very strong students via its National Merit Finalists scholarships.

Likely

  • U. of Pittsburgh (PA ): About 24k undergrads, 13% Asian (2nd highest). Submitting an application here early (like August) will improve your odds for merit aid.

Toss-Up

  • U. of Wisconsin – Madison: About 36k undergrads, 10% Asian (3rd highest)

Lower Probability

Low Probability

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19

Last two would be unlikely budget. But great schools.

The SUNYs - Bing, Buff, & SB all win I think!!

You know what we’re missing. Reach. High reach. Right at $50k. Ga Tech. And in city.

Since you have a BS/MD. VCU also hits the city target with Asian over 10% (14%) of the population and the third biggest ethnicity. Even without BS MD you’d get under budget with merit !!

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Thank you so much! This helped a lot.

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