<p>Last year we had some plumbing work done (simple stuff) and the plumber we used for a decade or more decided to cash in and milked a 1-visit 1.5 hour project, max 2 hour to 2-visit 5 hour labor hours. So he was voted off the island. </p>
<p>This year I called another plumber from a major firm located in my city that advertises ‘flat rate’. The rate was flat alright, nearly twice that of the exact same repair 3 years ago. He did a great job, granted, but I did not see his ‘price list’ to see what typical 1/2 to 1 hour repairs are billed for…</p>
<p>So, what’s the collective’s opinion on such practices? I get the feeling that in either case they’re squeezed by the downturn in the housing industry and are milking repairs for all they’re worth, much like car dealers as profits on new car sales go down…</p>
<p>PS: As Civil Engineer and Human Factors Engineer (annoying guy with clipboard and stopwatch) I kind of know if someone is milking the clock in a repair or if they’re simply having a hard time. Removing a non-stuck faucet does NOT take 1 1/2 hour…</p>
<p>I’d be a little hesitant about flat rate repair work. The service company isn’t in business to lose money, flat rate work has to be to the repair company’s advantage or they wouldn’t be charging that way. </p>
<p>It’d be kinda funny too when the flat rate guy shows up for a service call on a not working appliance, looks behind appliance and finds plug loose in outlet, plugs it all the way in and says: “that will be $250!”</p>
<p>It depends on what it’s for. If you’re talking about appliance repairs or even many others where the extent of work isn’t pre-determined like many plumbing, carpentry, electrical repairs, there’s no way they can reasonably give a flat rate price until they know the extent of the work and materials cost so if they try to do it flat rate beforehand they’re going to have to typically ballpark it high so they don’t lose. Something more fixed like a toilet replacement, garbage disposal install, dishwasher replacement, and the like should be able to be pretty accurately bid since the time is fairly well known.</p>
<p>However, I was doing a remodel and needed certain plumbing done and got a flat rate price for the specific plumbing. This worked out well for me and eliminated any angst I might have had since it took quite a lot of work and time for all the plumbing to get done. On the flip side I had some electrical work done on an hourly rate by what turned out to be a slow, plodding, and incompetent electrician - incompetent in that I had to redo some of his work myself to do it right. He ended up being expensive and I canned him and ended up doing the majority of electrical work myself. </p>
<p>There’s no simple answer. The least expensive answer is to do the work yourself which is what I do for most things but for this you need to be able and willing to do the work.</p>
<p>
Given supply and demand it s/b just the opposite - now’s the time to get construction type of work done since so many contractors have little work to do. You should be able to get a good deal.</p>
<p>^^^ lizard, we had a flat-rate electrician come out to figure out why the socket for the microwave wasn’t working. Was going to tell me the rate once he figured out what was involved. Wound up being ’ no charge’ when he figured out that someone had accidently flipped a switch that’s hidden behind the toaster oven. </p>
<p>When I have landscaping work done that I need to hire out, the landscaper I use bills me on a T+M (time + materials) basis, and so far it has worked out well.</p>
<p>For a medium to large plumbing job, I would want an estimate with a fixed price. If I didn’t like the price I would get another estimate.</p>
<p>For small jobs I would go T+M. I love my plumber, he doesn’t do the “$80 just to come out” routine with me, although that might be because I give him a lot of business. I have a couple of electricians who have done enough work for me that I have trust they aren’t going to milk a job or rip me off.</p>
<p>Ask around for other recommendations or try Angie’s List, there are good tradespeople out there.</p>
<p>I love our plumber too & trust him. He’s probably not the lowest priced guy out there but he will re-do if there are any problems with anything he does (which is fortunately very rare). We are confident about letting him get the key to our house from the neighbor to do repairs in our absence. He always charges a price we feel is fair and gets the job done promptly. That’s what matters to us. He charges something for labor and something for parts, breaking it out. He has good workers and sometimes they bring assistants as welll.</p>
<p>Have never tried using anyone “flat rate,” and would wonder about that since they can’t know what needs repairing and it could be VERY high if the repair is just a minor thing. If that happens, my regular plumber generally won’t charge at all or just a very nominal amount for their time & trouble (generally waived).</p>
<p>Our mechanic is the same way–we like him & have used him for years. He is honest and reliable, stands behind his work so that if something fails shortly after he fixed it, he will do it again & get a refund from the manufacturer for a defective part & comp the labor.</p>
<p>At this point in our lives, H is too tired to be doing all the maintenance, tho he does know how to do it. We prefer to just hire folks we trust and are competent, as long as they aren’t “soaking” us with their prices. So far, so good.</p>
<p>Some of my relatives ALWAYS go for the low bid and are sometimes dismayed at the poor quality of work they receive. I think our way lets us sleep better at night and not have to micromanage or oversee the work. I don’t mind paying a reasonable premium for quality and reliability.</p>
<p>It was a very straightforward sump pump replacement installation - our house eats one every 3 years so this is pump #4, and all 3 previous times it was an hour of labor - but the guy who did the last 2 installs pulled the trick on us last year (*) so we decided to use someone else on a ‘trial’ basis. </p>
<p>(*) the trick the last guy pulled on us was 3 plus hours labor (no joke) to replace an under-the-sink instant water heater plus 1 1/2 hour (2nd visit) to replace a shower valve. </p>
<p>Not to offend any plumbers out there but I have a hard time believing that they do not charge based on house value, rather on what the job involves…</p>
<p>I would have said exactly the same about our last plumber, too. Used him for 10 years and sent more work his way. But a year ago he decided to try his slow-down technique… Part of the reason we went ‘flat rate’ was because we wanted to try someone else. Scratch that idea too…</p>
<p>How very unfortunate. We hope our plumber doesn’t start a slow-down technique. My best source for plumbers is other satisfied customers. Ever try talking to your former plumber to see why he changed?</p>
<p>Our mechanic started doing that PLUS he couldn’t figure out how to fix our car so we referred us to another mechanic, whom we’ve stayed with. The new mechanic still isn’t cheap but at least when he repairs the car, it is actually fixed! He can also usually fix it the day we bring it in rather than holding it for a week (tho he has had to hold it for a week for major , expensive repairs).</p>
<p>I don’t understand.
If its so simple, why don’t you do this work?</p>
<p>This plumber is probably trying to survive in this economy.
If he is, it is in his best interest to charge as much as he can get away with. Charging less only means that he doesn’t get as much and there is no guarantee that there will be repeat business. He may even believe that the previous service calls were too small, that you believe that previous charges too much. </p>
<p>There is a lot of inventory to be carried on his truck, the last plumber said he easily carried $10K. Ever tried to buy a faucet stem?</p>
<p>Small businesses in our state are being eaten alive by health insurance premiums that by law they CANNOT pass on to their employees, worker’s comp, disabililty insurance, liability insurance and other overhead. I need for them to stay viable because I really do NOT want to dabble in home repairs – I want them to do a good job so we can be done with it and do other things with our time. I will pay them as professionals, happily. I don’t compare their bills from visit to visit, as I do understand that overhead does unfortunately rise, as does the cost of gas, parts and hiring competent help.</p>
<p>Some things are simple or complex and I’ll do them - I paint better than most house painters I’ve ever encountered… Drywall, framing, basic carpentry, any landscaping including retaining walls, A/V wiring… Some things I do not want to deal with - plumbing is always outsourced, as is carpeting, and electrical work is usually done by a qualified BSEE + licensed electrician friend (now there’s a combo). Brickwork I can do but it ain’t as good (good enough for landscaping work but not house exterior)</p>
<p>I can understand charging a fair wage, but knowing what I know about time/motion studies (think guy with the clipboard and stopwatch…) and engineering it was not difficult to see the guy was stalling - big time -.</p>
<p>He was not the first or last plumber to do this. He came into the picture exactly because the outfit I used in the past did the exact same thing (using a Sawzall to remove a faucet? come on people :-)). </p>
<p>I’ve had three houses built, one from a tract builder, a semi-custom, and a fully custom 6,000 sq ft house which I designed along with an architect. I understand what it means to pay good wages and get good results, but somewhere along the line there is a big disconnect between cost of service, price charged for the service, and quality of the service. </p>
<p>The places I’m talking about are all home service outfits, not new construction plumbers or other tradesmen, so they are probably not affected as much by the slowdown in housing.</p>
<p>I’m out to get a pipe auger. Kitchen sink is clogged somewhere near but after the trap. I got one somewhere either here or there or neighbors. It’s a $10-$15 item that you use once every 15 years else its a $100 plumber. </p>
<p>For non-emergency work, I expect a craftsman (plumber, carpenter, electrician and the like) to take a look at the work and give me a flat rate estimate for what she believes the job is, and what it will take to fix. There is always the understanding that the estimate may change depending on what she sees when she opens up whatever it is. Then I expect to be consulted about how to proceed and for how much. Same as with my car - I don’t pay my mechanic by the hour; I pay by the repair.</p>
<p>I don’t do T&M anymore, for precisely the reasons outlined here. I don’t know a darned thing about plumbing, electrical, carpentry, so I won’t try to fix things myself, but I can tell a simple from a complex job.</p>
<p>Look in the sump and figure out what model pump you have, and then google it a search around a little to find what it costs online. Often items are sold for double what you could buy them for.</p>
<p>If the electrical connection on the sump pump simply plugs into a socket, then the replacement of the pump should be easy and straightforward…relatively. Usually there is some way to disconnect the pump from the piping above it…either a rubber sleeve with screw clamps to loosen it, or the check valve assemble with threaded junctions. You simply disconnect the pump and the first foot or so of piping from the piping above it, move the cover from the sump pit, and then replace it.</p>
<p>I installed a sump pump myself including jackhammering the floor and cementing the pit, along with the pvc pipe, pump, and check valve. You just have to decide what value to put on your own time.</p>
<p>I would think a sump pump replacement would take one hour of plumbers time at most, plus whatever he charges for the pump. If he has to work in a 3 foot crawl space, that would cost more. </p>
<p>
One of my great gripes with service people is that they seldom have any inventory on their trucks, and always end up having to come back with the proper parts. Its not impressive.</p>
<p>Once when the snake didn’t work, they found soil in the pipe and a broken pipe. That involved using a camera & scope, excavation & considerable repair. It was more than the regular plumbing bill with the “rooter” folks and the plumber, but no regrets. Better them doing it than us!</p>
<p>The price was for replacement of an existing pump with a customer-supplied pump and check valve… Labor only. Of course, it could be revenge for not buying his pump or check valve :-).</p>
<p>As I said, my suspicion is that the steep charge (and other plumber antics) may have been a function of a 99%'er customer living in a 1% home and neighborhood (long story)… Maybe if I put a big sign in front of my yard “WARNING: YOU ARE NOW ENTERING 99%” I may get lower estimates… </p>
<p>Incidentally, I have heard what some of my (1%) neighbors have paid for repairs (or have been tricked into paying for repairs) or new projects and the more I think of it the more I am convinced… There is absolutely no reason an outdoor stone patio and fireplace (the latest craze when 5 figure bonuses start rolling in) to cost $20k+ but people around here seem to have an infinite amount of money…</p>
<p>(note: we’re talking about a neighborhood of 6000+ sq ft homes where it is quite the norm to pay someone to hang your Christmas lights… and where maybe 20% of the people do their own yard work)</p>