<p>The true opposite of the tiger mother is the panda mother.</p>
<p>[Loving</a> pooch nurses baby pandas in China: report](<a href=“http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.ba9b1ae78a4df2dd3fdecd00bff04c28.1c1]Loving”>http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.ba9b1ae78a4df2dd3fdecd00bff04c28.1c1)</p>
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<p>I am taking a gender studies class right now, and double standard issues such as this is something we just covered. I think what you posted here is right on the money. In one of the court cases we studied, back when custody preference was presumed to be with the primary caretaker unless they were shown to be an unfit parent (rather than the “best interest of the child” paradigm), one of the fathers got custody just because he occasionally made a meal or brushed his daughter’s hair despite being NOWHERE NEAR the primary caretaker, because when a woman takes a man’s gender role it’s a big problem (unless she maintains her womens role as well and remains some variety of supermom), and when a man does the bare minimum as a caretaker he gets cheered on for being a great dad. We like to pretend we’re on an even playing field here just because we are just finally starting to talk seriously about equal expectations, and a lot of families are even implementing it, but the societal undertones have not caught up yet.</p>
<p>Not to mention the fact that, personally, it seems to me like when a woman is a bad mom she is a bad person, and when a man is a bad dad he’s just… well, a man. The connection with self-worth and parenting is not nearly as fierce for men as it is for women and it’s just bizarre. </p>
<p>Being a bad parent once the kids are already there is inexcusable, but short of the way this woman talks about her choices I don’t see anything that she’s done that men haven’t been doing after divorce for decades without outrage of the masses.</p>
<p>Excellent posts EPTR and horsfeathers.</p>
<p>Part of the reaction is that this particular mother does not come across very sympathetically. She portrays what happened exactly as EPTR described her</p>
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<p>She acts as if she has done some soul searching and come to a deep understanding of some sort of higher calling that awaits her. She thinks the point is what a great parent she is in the limited time she spends with her kids rather than acknowledging all the hours she isn’t there and instead doing what she wants to do.</p>
<p>I’m all for soul searching, I love to see people wrestle with the really big questions, “What gives my life meaning?”, “How can I make a contribution?”, “Who am I?”, “Why are we here?”. But this needs to be done before kids are in the picture, not after they are here.</p>
<p>She also came right out and said that she never wanted to be a mother. It is hard to hear anyone say that. I can understand someone saying I was young, I made a mistake, it wasn’t what I thought it would be, but she just says it is something that she had never wanted without any explanation as to why she did it. From the interview anyway she is hard to understand.</p>
<p>But EPTR and horsfeathers (and Emmaheevul07) are right, men do this and face far less judgment after the fact. It’s good to remind ourselves of that, there is still a double standard. Maybe the author was really desperate, maybe she felt trapped and didn’t see any other way out. I actually might get a copy of the book to see. Maybe then I’ll understand what happened.</p>
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<p>It’s a blatant double standard. But, that doesn’t mitigate the pain or sense of rejection a child must feel when reading how his/her mother doesn’t care enough about them to stick around and do the tough/inconvenient/messy aspects of parenting. Because that’s ultimately what it comes down to: mom only wants to do the “fun” parts…:rolleyes:</p>
<p>^I didn’t really get that sense so much as mom really wanted to have her career and didn’t know how to balance that with the intense expectations society has of “proper motherhood.” Unfortunately she became overwhelmed and shook the entire institution, which was not what anyone would have hoped for, but I am not prepared to demonize her for it unless I am prepared to take on the hordes of men that have done the same thing. Which, I think, is a bit above my pay grade. :P</p>
<p>I am hoping the conversations she had with her kids were better thought out and better worded than this article (which someone ELSE wrote, which is something we should be bearing in mind here). Not even direct quotes are particularly meaningful when you’re not present for the entire conversation, without actually reading the book the woman wrote herself I’d be wary of passing too harsh a judgment about how she talks within earshot of her kids.</p>
<p>I have a neighbor who has frequently said to me IN FRONT OF HER KIDS that she wishes she never had kids because they’re too much work and she’s too selfish a person to be a mom. The sad thing is her kids & H are wonderful people–class presidents, great students and very nice folks. She has said this since they were very little and now that one has started college and the years in between. It makes me very sad that she says this openly in front of her kids–maybe she’s DougBetsey’s mom’s twin? I tell her I love being a mom – even tho I don’t always perfect the role, I mostly enjoy it and wouldn’t trade my kids for the world!</p>
<p>Personally, I don’t have double standards regarding men and women about this topic. I also think that the men who leave their children behind are selfish and immature. I just haven’t yet heard of a book about a man bragging about it. </p>
<p>I think parents who abuse their kids, leave their kids or choose to play part-time parent because it is more convenient for them are all selfish and immature drains on society. As a society, we cannot dictate who will and won’t have children. This would lead to many other issues that it would need it own thread, but I really think a lot of problems in society stems from selfish and immature choices and not taking your role as a parent is a prime example and it really does lead to other problems down the road. It is a domino effect.</p>
<p>Haven’t read this whole thread, but just recently visited with a very religious family member who is childless, who asked me what my priority is. I thought, I probably should say God, because it would make her happy, but I went with my heart, and I said, My son. She told me, No, my priority should be my husband. Wow, I was flabbergasted. My husband has a college degree, his health and his wits about him, whereas my son is still finding his way. I don’t know whether she couldn’t understand me because she never had a child of my own, but I just can’t imagine, being a mother, not putting my child first above everything.</p>
<p>^^^
I have heard that sentiment expressed many times by people. The premise behind it is that your relationship with your spouse is very important to the well being of your children. If you don’t nurture your partnership, your children will suffer by proxy.</p>
<p>^^^Good point, EPTR. Now that we have an empty nest, husband wonders when it’s his turn to be first. Unfortunately, I have had to jump in as primary caregiver of wheelchair bound mother, so he’s having to take a backseat once again.</p>
<p>One of my best friends was married once upon a time. She had never (and I mean NEVER) wanted children. Somehow, her then-husband convinced her to try to get pregnant. Due to health issues, she had to spend a year doing exercises to get her body ready to bear a child. They tried to conceive for a couple years, but the marriage ended before my friend got pregnant. She has confessed to me that she is thankful beyond words that she never got pregnant. She says she absolutely never wanted kids & was only trying to have one to make her husband happy. She shared that she would have walked away from her child when she left her husband, and she is grateful that that particular scenario never had to become reality. </p>
<p>It is incredibly difficult to be a parent. It is also beyond rewarding in so many ways. And it can also be heartbreaking, especially when we try so hard yet bad things happen to our kids (either by chance or choice). I think it sure helps when we know how it really can be. The more we prepare our young people for what parenthood entails, the better able they will be to make the choice that is best for them down the road.</p>
<p>A woman I know left a mid teens son and a younger mentally handicapped daughter behind and moved out of state. Not much contact with them afterwards, her choice.</p>
<p>When she heard that I was selling DS’s Legos on eBay, she commented “You are much less sentimental than I am. I could never do that.” </p>
<p>My jaw is still on the floor.</p>
<p>Montegut: That reminds me of something I read the other day, some politician-- I want to say Huckabee? (could be wrong) Was criticizing Natalie Portman for telling her fiance in her oscar acceptance speech [paraphrasing] “thank you for giving me the most wonderful gift,” meaning the child she is bearing, when he HASN’T given her the most wonderful gift because, according to politician, that would have been a wedding ring. I get that he’s against having children out of wedlock but that seems like a really weird way to express that sentiment to me. In the culture that I am a part of children always come before the marriage, and while it is good for the children for there to be a marriage between the parents (if that creates a healthy situation), nobody would put it like that. I just thought that was really weird.</p>
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<p>Take that comment with a grain of salt. I’m guessing it’s her way of trying to make herself feel better about her mothering. As if by holding on to plastic toys, she is somehow more invested than you. “Well, I may have walked away from my children but at least I didn’t throw away the Legos!”</p>
<p>I saw a video of the interview with this woman from Today. She is very unappealing. I was shocked to hear that the book she has written is a candidate for the National Book Award. Apparently it is beautifully written?</p>
<p>There is an enormous gap between being consumed by mothering and leaving one’s children. Some middle path should have been found. And, if we are fortunate, life is long, and the child-rearing years are relatively short - too short for most of us here! See many “empty nest” threads. </p>
<p>Very good points about the double standard for men and women.</p>
<p>^^EPTR, you are kind.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I know her too well and have heard too many other comments from her that it’s clearly a matter of complete self unawareness and downright selfishness. I would add that she has nothing whatsoever that belonged to any of her children at this point.</p>
<p>My children are happy when I sell their things on eBay. We go 50-50 :D.</p>
<p>The Lego story - wow! Someone is fooling herself.</p>
<p>ihs, maybe I should try the 50-50 approach. It is almost impossible to wrest anything from DS1 and DS2, and DH and I would like to clear some things out.</p>
<p>Emaheevul07,
I agree that Huckabee was inappropriate. Natalie Portman isn’t exactly a drain on society. I’m pretty sure she is set up to take care of her responsibilities. Why doesn’t Huckabee point out a few male politicians who have fathered children out of wedlock? I think we could find a few of those if we looked REALLY hard. Sheesh.</p>
<p>The 50/50 deal works great! My kids were always more than willing to part with their stuff when money was involved. It was me that had trouble letting go. Sometimes I would sneak things out of the yard sale pile when they weren’t looking.
Hey! I guess taht makes me a really great mom!!! ;)</p>
<p>^^^
I happen to love Legos, as does my son, and if you tell me where you’re selling them, I’d be happy to look at them.</p>
<p>As for the husband demanding the child, I know this all too well. I was given the ultimatum to bear a child or get out, but I am so happy I did.
I know many men who have left their wives when they have either refused to conceive, or even worse, were unable to conceive.</p>
<p>Despite the advances women have made this century, we are still the baby machines, whether we want to admit it or not.</p>
<p>I do think that many people think that their duty to their marriage ends when their child is sent off to college. See the “divorce” thread here, and I’m wondering if that’s what’s going on.</p>
<p>My husband always thought I would hit the door when my son went off to college, but as the years have gone on, I realize he is as important to me as my son. He obviously expressed this sentiment to my son, or son overheard arguments, because as he headed off to college, he earnestly took me aside and begged me not to leave his father.</p>
<p>I assured him I had no intention of doing that. Daddy and I had had our rough times, but I still loved him and intended to stay married to him until the day I die.</p>
<p>I have a hard time with people who completely let go of their children when they go away to college. Yes, they have to be adults and learn their own way, but as a child whose parents never set foot on her college campus, I can tell you, I had a lot of abandonment issues, even though I was considered an adult and should have accepted it as their way of respecting my individuality. It didn’t make it any less painful to feel so unwanted.</p>