orientation

<p>Love the reports! Keep 'em coming.</p>

<p>Gabby,</p>

<p>If you don't mind sharing more info on why the pre med classes you originally signed up for were not the appropriate ones, that might be helpful for others to know. Was it because they recommend taking intro courses even though you might qualify for AP credit in those courses?</p>

<p>Mom222 - I was told that since I completed AP Calc AB and BC and scored 5s that I would not need to take any other calc classes. That was incorrect, for pre-med you must have at least one semester of graded calc. Unfortunately, all of the consolidated calc classes were taken so I opted to take an honors consolidated class. Also, and more important to me, was that that I was told that I would be eligible for the Creative Scholars program if I majored in Public Health and that's what I planned my schedule around. Although I didn't understand why it would be considered a non-science major (probably because I was happy with that answer), I didn't question it further and planned to double major in Neuroscience and Public Health. Although it didn't change my decision to take the intro to public health class, it is forcing me to give more thought to participating in creative scholars and other possible majors.</p>

<p>Thanks Gabby. So if I understand what you are saying, so long as you have one non-science major and one science major, you are still eligible for the Creative scholars program? Also, how can all of the consolidated calc classes (131 I presume) be taken when orientations just started and most freshman have yet to register? Looking at the suggested math class choices, that is where my S would fall, having taken AP Calc AB, in high school (don't know the score yet but presume a 3 or above). Not that you should know the answer to my last question but it does not make sense to me.</p>

<p>They save slots for each orientation session, so by the time Gabby got there during her session it might have filled up given how many slots they made available, but there will still be slots for later orientation sessions. It is also possible they wanted to push her to the honors section since she is a tippy top student, but that I don't know for sure. It will take some luck this year to get the sections one wants with such a huge incoming class, I would imagine.</p>

<p>Based on their chart, a 5 on Calc AB and BC should have placed her in Calc III
(221). But for a student who only plans to take the required one semester of calculus, and no advanced math courses, the honors option may be the better choice.</p>

<p>Fallenchemist is, as usual, correct. They told me I can wait until July when they reopen registration, but I opted to take the honors calc instead. </p>

<p>The requirements for creative scholars are that you have to have a non-science major and you have to take all of your pre-med requirements within the first two years. I was planning on double majoring so I would be able to have the major which I really wanted (neuroscience) and public health to fulfill the creative scholars requirement.</p>

<p>Gabby - did you see the article about the major award Prof. Hall received? Tulane</a> University - Top Award for Young Scientist</p>

<p>Hey Gabby. Are you sure about that neuroscience major. </p>

<p>I have previously sent emails to advising to ask about the Creative Premedical Scholars Program which told me I could not keep a science major.</p>

<p>Joan Kay "You cannot major in CHEM and do the early admission program, you could minor in it but you cannot major in a science field even if you have a major in liberal arts as well."</p>

<p>Adam Beauchamp "I’m glad to hear you’ve had good experiences in your visits to Tulane, and that you are excited to begin your studies here in the fall. In think your interests in Chemistry and Philosophy are great, and will help you to be a compelling candidate when you apply to medical schools. I regret that only non-science majors are eligible for the Create Pre-Medical Scholars Program. As a chemistry major, you could not apply."</p>

<p>Bradford Rhines "First, if you plan to apply for the Creative Scholars program, you will not be able to double major in Chemistry, though a minor in Chemistry could be an option. If Chemistry is a discipline that you’re passionate about, then I would recommend majoring in Chemistry (along with Asian Studies, which I think is very feasible) and taking a more traditional route to medical school. "</p>

<p>Of course, I held on to a tiny speck of hope and asked today at orientation and walked to the premed adviser whose name I cannot recall. She very explicitly told me that I cannot major in any kind of a science and expect to qualify to Creative Premedical Scholars program when I told her I wanted to do Philosophy + Chemistry as my first choice. Thus, I switched to Philosophy + Asian Studies. </p>

<p>And again, what I learned is different from what you're reporting on the public health end. A friend of mine was planning to major in public health. I told her that since she isn't from the School of Science, it should be completely possible to take that major and go for creative premedical scholars. Today, she told me that it wasn't possible after she talked to a few people from the school of public health [though she never went to ask the premed adviser explicitly like I did].</p>

<p>I am unsure about the conflicting reports, but I cannot help but think there was some mistake on someone's end. But on the other hand, orientation was awesome! Does anyone have anything they want to know about it?</p>

<p>Let's look at what it says on the Tulane site: Tulane</a> University - Pre-Health Programs</p>

<p>
[quote]
To be eligible students must choose a nonscience major, complete both their freshman and sophomore years at Tulane University, complete a minimum of 60 credits of undergraduate work by the end of their sophomore year and all of the premedical science course requirements during the regular academic year (not summer) of their freshman and sophomore years: one year each of general biology, general chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics, all with laboratories. The only advanced placement that can be used for this program is biology. A minimum grade-point average of 3.6 is required. Students who have completed more than two years of undergraduate work and have transferred to Tulane from another college are not eligible.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Now if I were trying to parse that wording "students must choose a nonscience major" I would say that picking philosophy means you have met the requirement, even if you choose chemistry also. So would Public Health and neuroscience. However, even though I have one of the great Tulane stories of all time by successfully playing lawyer when I was an undergrad, I surely wouldn't recommend banking on that without having agreement from whomever is in charge of the program.</p>

<p>For completeness, it goes on to say:
[quote]
Application materials are available during the first week of February in the Preprofessional Office. The completed application, faculty evaluations, and all other required materials, must be submitted to the Preprofessional Office by April 1 of the year in which the student applies. In the application the student will need to submit a carefully proposed academic plan of study for “if accepted to this program” and “if not accepted”. Students need to make certain to explain the differences between the two plans—and this plan is for the student’s third and fourth undergraduate years (a rigorous academic outline is encouraged). In addition, if in the Honors Program students will need to do an Honors Thesis and if not in the Honors Program they will need to do a thesis within their major to be able to receive departmental honors.</p>

<p>The Nominating Committee conducts interviews with applicants at the end of April and selects students to Tulane Medical School by mid June; this is also when the students receive a letter stating the Committee’s decision. If accepted the MCAT examination is not required for Tulane Medical School.

[/quote]
So I take that to mean you start the process in February of your sophomore year, and you know during June following your sophomore year.</p>

<p>Interestingly, here is the description from the 2010-2011 University Catalog, which is generally considered the final "rule book" as far as what is official policy. Core</a> Curriculum and Courses of Study - Tulane University It says nothing about non-science majors.</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>And finally, here is a statement from the FAQ section of the TAP-TP part of the med school web site: Tulane</a> University - School of Medicine - Office of Admissions - faqs

[quote]
9. Do I have to be a science major to be in the program?</p>

<p>In order to complete the rigors of an accelerated undergraduate program, it is easiest if the applicant majors in a science. For students wishing to pursue a non-science major, the Tulane Creative Scholars Program may be a better option. The Creative Scholars Program allows sophomore students to apply for an early acceptance to medical school. The Creative Scholars Program requires students to change their academic plan to major in a non-science. Students accepted into the Creative Scholars Program begin medical school after completing their undergraduate degree.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So are we all sufficiently confused? My advice is to call the admissions office at the med school, since this is their program, and ask who is "in charge" of the Creative Scholars Program. If they ask what you are calling about, simply say that apparently different students have been told different things during undergrad orientation about what is allowed and what is not. When you get the person that can definitively answer the question, you might want to preemptively state that you see the phrasing I mentioned above, that the student must have a non-science major, and that you take that to mean you can also have a science major as long as you have a non-science one, isn't that a correct interpretation. See what they say.</p>

<p>Whew! I am tired now. Let us know.</p>

<p>Well yeah, that's why I went to ask the Pre-med adviser, since she is the one in charge of the Premedical Scholars Program. Websites are ambiguous. However, there is no way for her to misunderstand my direct question; I cannot imagine that she would be so confident in an answer that was incorrect, since she is so heavily involved with the Premed students. However, I can only say this on the part of the 'only nonscience majors' end. My public health friend never asked the lady, so I cannot say that the public health majors are absolutely correct.</p>

<p>Hi Lam - I agree that a pre-med advisor ought to know! So my question is, does this pre-med advisor actually work for the med school or for Newcomb-Tulane College? Is she on the admissions committee at the med school? Obviously it is up to you and Gabby what you want to do, but if it were me, knowing that two very very bright students had been given conflicting information, I would want to make sure I had talked with the ultimate decision-maker on the subject. That wouldn't be the advisor. It is an important question about the program and the available sources describing the program, at least that I have found in a 10 minutes search, seem surprisingly vague. Even the one that mentions the non-science major requirement, saying you must "choose a nonscience major", leaves things open for interpretation in this world of double majors. After all, it could have said you must "choose only a nonscience major". I guess that all I am saying is to seek an authoritative interpretation or ruling from someone that is vested with that authority.</p>

<p>LamTran - Yes, I am quite sure that is what I was told. Whether or not the information was correct, is another story. I was told that if I double majored in, for example, neuroscience and philosophy I would be eligible for the program. At the orientation I was told regarding Public Health, that since it is a bachelor of science in public health, it is most definitely considered a science therefore not considered a non-science major. However, at honors weekend I was told it would be considered non-science. I will contact the School of Medicine to hopefully get a definitive answer. If I am not able to double major with a science, it's probable that I will not pursue the program.</p>

<p>Gabby - when you do find the right person that can give an authoritative answer, and if that answer is that you can do what you were told, get it in writing. You want an e-mail or something similar to be able to present when others might question this, since there is ambiguity.</p>

<p>I just saw a chat answer that President Cowan gave in November (maybe to you??) where he said "For certain qualified students, we have a program called Creative Premedical Scholars which allows students early acceptance into Tulane's medical school in their junior year. It allows options for double majors and study abroad that would be difficult to complete on a traditional Pre-Med track.". Again, it doesn't address the nonscience major question, but the inference regarding double majors is interesting.</p>

<p>Anyway, bureaucracies being what they are, make sure you have your answer in writing, unless of course they say Lam is right, then it is all moot.</p>

<p>to fallenchemist - yeah, I simply made my assumption based of the rule of the majority, but it could, of course, be false.</p>

<p>to gabby - if possible, could you post the reply you received on this forum asap? I have until midnight to register my classes and would appreciate further clarification!</p>

<p>Yeah, it only takes one to be wrong, since they all work in the same office. One person tells the others the same (wrong) answer, so they all get it wrong. Not saying they are wrong in this case, just that it could happen that way.</p>

<p>LamTran - I ended up emailing the med school so I can have the answer in writing. It's doubtful that I will get a response today, but if I do I will definitely post it. If the answer is different than what you had received, you will have the opportunity to change your schedule in July.</p>

<p>I just skimmed this discussion and I'd like to add what the premed advisor has told me (a rising sophomore): if you want to be eligible for the creative scholars program you can MINOR in a science, but not major or double major. The program is designed for students that want to be doctors but would like to study liberal arts as undergrads...in this respect the program encourages this intellectual diversity for Tulane Med School and encourages such students to pursue liberal arts of various disciplines (majoring/double majoring) who otherwise wouldn't have felt as comfortable being premed while majoring in a nonscience. You can't double major in a nonscience and a science and be in the program because then a lot of people might just tack on nonscience major for the sole purpose of being eligible for the program. I understand that some students - myself included - truly would like to pursue both a science and nonscience major at Tulane while still being eligible for CPMS, but I understand why the rules are the way they are.
Again, this is all gleaned from discussions with my advisors and interpreted to the best of my understanding. If I'm wrong or the rules have changed, please correct me!</p>

<p>And public health is considered a science major. I was told by the premed advisor that to be eligible for CMPS I could minor in public health, but NOT major or double major.</p>

<p>That is what Lam was told also. I am not doubting the advisors, because I just don't know. It is rather curious that it doesn't seem to be written down in detail anywhere, at least that I could find. What is written down is either ambiguous (in one case) or completely lacking in specificity (the other two). call me stubborn, but I still think it would be good to find out if there is someone at the med school that is "in charge" of the program and to hear from them. But until then, I would have to say go with the most conservative path, which is what Lam and tigerlily have said they were told.</p>

<p>S2 returned from orientation quite excited. It was well designed, fun, and he got accomplished everything he needed to do. He made several friends. One point of interest, almost all of them turned down much higher ranked schools for Tulane. Many only applied because of the easy, free application and then the more they learned about the school, the more they liked it. Looks like the school's strategy is working.</p>