Hard to believe that anyone would actually defend this professor.
I have no doubt that “the same people”, (whomever they are, apparently not including you) who are upset at the cruelty of the professor would be equally disgusted if she had said that Kalief Browder and Trayvon Martin deserved to be imprisoned, tortured and killed, because they were young, black men.
I don’t agree with the professor’s viewpoint but some of those calling for “off with her head” are the same that decry the loss of free speech on campus for other incidents.
Yep. We are in favor of free speech till it crosses the line, for example Yiannopoulos. My line may be in a different spot than that yours.
“I don’t agree with the professor’s viewpoint but some of those calling for “off with her head” are the same that decry the loss of free speech on campus for other incidents.”
I’ve read what she said and find it despicable. That said it does trouble me that someone can lose their livelihood over what amounts to an opinion. It was offensive but who among us can guarantee we will never offend someone by the statements we make. It was made as a comment not as taught in a class or initiated as a article or made as a representative of the university. Perhaps the university views it as any comment she makes while on a public forum is representing the university. Facebook makes it very easy to let the world know of ones ignorance, biases and prejudices and make private thoughts public.
I am usually not supportive of people losing their jobs for exercising their right of free speech, even when it’s pretty awful. I agree that Facebook makes it easy to let people know how biased and prejudiced people can be. Sometimes I wonder, what are they thinking? This is online forever.
However, sometimes it reflects badly upon a business when a person posts something particularly vicious. We all know we can be fired for doing things in the public arena. For example, if any of us posted a rant about how much we hated our companies customers and it went viral…we’re gone. In the professors case, part of her hateful rant included, "that Warmbier was “typical of a mindset of a lot of the young, white, rich, clueless males who come into my classes.” So she posted that he got what he deserved, it was his parents fault for raising him that way, and he was typical of many of her students. I think that would follow her around forever, because it is easy to extrapolate that she abhors her white male students and they deserve the same fate as Otto. Who would want a professor like that teaching their kids, no matter their race or sex?
As much as I grieve for his family and acknowledge that what NK did is way out of line with anything decent and moral in this world, it was pretty clueless to go there. Let’s be honest about that.
Of course it is clueless to go to North Korea, for any American. I don’t think there is a single person on this forum who has defended it as a good decision to go there.
However, that is not pertinent to someone saying that he got what he deserved (tortured, imprisoned and dead), that it’s his parents fault, and that many of her students are the same way…implying that they deserve the same fate for their transgression of being young, white, rich, clueless and male. That is indefensible.
I took a look at the Trip Advisor website, to see what people had posted about Young Pioneer Tours. They have unanimous 5 star ratings with many positive, detailed comments. There is no mention of the information that has subsequently emerged about one of the organizers. There is also very little mention of drinking–perhaps none, though I might have skimmed past it.
On the Young Pioneer Tours site, there are roughly 10 tours of North Korea that are listed. Two of them clearly involve some drinking. However, one would not conclude from the site that drinking was central to the tours–hence the Mormon who went on one.
On the one hand, I would not want any family member to go to North Korea. On the other hand, if one had only the information that was available on the web at the time that Otto decided to go and his family permitted it, I don’t think that there were indications of the danger that non-Korean-Americans would face, going with Young Pioneers. They probably looked like one of the best available options, if one wanted to see North Korea.
Some people of my age have about the same reaction to “Young Pioneer Tours” that they would have to “Young KGB Tours.” But I don’t think the name itself would set off negative associations among younger people.
I also wanted to mention that the University of Delaware professor who was “fired” was an adjunct professor. She was not technically fired; rather, her contract was not renewed for next year. The University of Delaware might not have been able to fire a tenured professor who made the same remark (despicable as I find the remark). There is no expectation of automatic renewal for an adjunct professor. The way that academe treats part-time faculty in the humanities is a separate issue.
Yes, she wasn’t fired, just not re-hired.
I hear what you assaying about the trip advisor thing, @QuantMech, but is anyone here really buying into the fact that any educated American with the means to visit China is clueless about NK and what goes on there? That the appeal of making the trip isn’t done because it is “budget travel to destinations your mother would rather you stayed away from”? If so, than that is part of that privilege the professor mentioned. Thinking that the State Dept warnings and past stories and history don’t apply to you. It is a horrible situation and, in light of what happened TripAdvisor should flag with a warning the Young Pioneers site, but the choice to go was a very dumb one that can’t be blamed on travel websites.
mom2twogirls- why is this being compared to Travon and Kalief Browder? I really don’t know anyone thought those boys deserved to die either. When people make comments like yours, it brings about the whole race issue and yet no one would ever say that any of these young men deserved to die for their actions. And I definitely remember that people- black and white, were extremely upset over the death of Travon. So why make the implication that the only reason people are taking exception with situation is because Otto was a white? Very Sad… Its comments like that that divide this country.
doschicos- I think its easy for us, as adults to understand the dangers of these countries, but when you’re young and you have travelled a bit on your own, you truly do think you’re smart enough and street savvy enough to undertake these risky adventures. In addition, I think there are some personalities who are more inclined to take these risks too. Then they read the marketing that is put out there from companies like YPT and it just all comes together. No one can blame the travel sites, but they absolutely target these risk-seeking personality types.
I don’t think that American students can truly fathom the cruel and horrific behaviors that some governments display outside the USA. Thats why its a bit annoying when I see so many students protesting violently in this country, when they truly have no idea how good they have it.
Amen to that!
“I don’t think that American students can truly fathom the cruel and horrific behaviors that some governments display outside the USA.”
If you remove some of the comments from the professor, then doesn’t at least the gist of her comments ring true? That is a privilege is it not?
“when I see so many students protesting violently in this country”
I think the “so many” and “violently” are a bit of an exaggeration.
I feel horrible for Otto W. and his family and I think Dettwyler’s post was despicable. but I think she had a point, however badly timed and badly stated. Here’s an example of the kind of clueless, entitled, unquestioning, rose colored glasses thinking she may have been thinking of. The author is a young Australian man who went in a Young Pioneers tour to NK…
http://www.wheressharon.com/asia-with-kids/things-to-do-in-north-korea/
Meh, not too far from the truth. We all love studies here, so according to a 2015 study done by UCLA (link below), 8.5% of freshmen (up from 5.6% in 2014) indicate they will likely engage in protests at some point during their years in college. That’s the highest number since the protest-heavy days of the 1960s.
https://www.heri.ucla.edu/monographs/TheAmericanFreshman2015.pdf
Certainly not an insignifcant number, but also nowhere near a majority. The trend is interesting nevertheless.
Doschicos- No I disagree. Not an exaggeration at all, as I think back to just a few months ago when the UCBerkley students were demonstrating because Milo Yannonpolis was going to speak. If you want to protest and disagree with him thats fine. But those protesters destroyed parts of that public school, as they set things ablaze and busted windows with bats. Why so much anger? If you’re not happy say something. But destruction of property is disgusting and deserving of punishment. I can’t imagine what would have happened if those same protesters did something like that in NK. Oh wait, yes I can…they would have been shot on the spot. No questions asked! And once again, this is the reason that young Americans are so clueless. They get away with too much nonsense in this country and then leave it thinking that they are untouchable. And they are not! So are they stupid? Yes! Did Otto make a poor choice? Yes! But to go to the extent that the Prof at Delaware did, is just inexcusable. And no its not white privilege. Young adults, black or white, make dumb choices everyday. It has nothing to do with privilege, just naivety, and ignorance.
@fractalmstr Let’s not assume protests are violent. I see them as an exercise of free speech (remember that principle we’re all so keen on preserving 
). The vast, vast majority of protests are not violent. Kudos to any student who cares enough to protest for something they believe in. If more people gave a rat’s ass about politics in this country instead of being indifferent, we’d be a better place. Look at voter turnout.
@Dungareedoll The analogy you are trying to make seems like you want the students to get a little NK treatment for protesting. Kind of scary thoughts from you. More to the point, the majority of protests are peaceful. Don’t make an isolated incident or two, whereby who was actually involved is still questionable, into some broad generalization. Every conversation of this type shouldn’t be met with a “But, Berkeley!” (usually spelled Berkley here by posters so thanks for spelling it correctly. )
@Dungareedoll it’s naive at best or blatantly disingenuous to say no one thought those kids deserved what they got. The proof is in the follow up.
Trayvon’s attacker walked free. Many, many people brought up his school attendance and previous use of pot, etc to show he deserved what happened.
And again, how many people upset by this case even knew about Kalief Browder, was my question? I could add more. How many people upset about NK treatment (or this professor’s comments) thought Eric Turner deserved to die for selling loose cigarettes? No one was convicted for that either. Freddie Grey… shall I continue?
My point actually wasn’t race. If you have examples of these things happening to others of other races, feel free to share them. My point was that there are bad things that happen to our citizens, Americans, in our country at the hands of our own justice system that aren’t fair either. I thought the professor sounded insensitive. But those are words I have seen written about every one of those other cases and since no one yet has seemed to go to jail over those actions, it seems to me that our country believes it’s ok for people to die for minor crimes at the hands of our justice system as well. That seems a double standard and that was my point. It only seems to have to do with race because I haven’t seen examples of those same issues happening to other races here, however I understand it likely happens to others.
"On her personal Facebook page, Kathy Dettwyler, an anthropology professor, wrote Tuesday that Warmbier was “typical of a mindset of a lot of the young, white, rich, clueless males who come into my classes.”
“These are the same kids who cry about their grades because they didn’t think they’d really have to read and study the material to get a good grade. … His parents ultimately are to blame for his growing up thinking he could get away with whatever he wanted. Maybe in the US, where young, white, rich, clueless white males routinely get away with raping women. Not so much in North Korea. And of course, it’s Ottos’ parents who will pay the price for the rest of their lives.”
Dos–
Her comments went FAR beyond " a young clueless kid" who went on a trip and probably should have known better with some research.
Her comments blamed the “mindset of a lot of the young, white, rich, clueless males WHO COME INTO MY CLASSES.”
Heaven forbid you are rich, male, young( and probably clueless), white–might as well hang it up as you walk in the door to her class.
NO WAY would I want her teaching my kids especially as an authoritarian figure in college. She’s the one who is clueless.
Her obvious biases have NO place in a classroom whether one is rich or poor, black or white, male or female.
I think @mom2twogirls thoughts are valid. This discussion touched on propaganda before which no doubt NK uses to paint a wonderful portrait of themselves and an awful portrait of the USA. I had mentioned previously that if I was the NK person in charge of looking for stories to tell to portray the USA in a bad light, I’d bring up the Flint water debacle. Add to that the video of Philandro Castile being shot.