While I understand the desire to let sleeping dogs lie, in Texas your son could be presented with a retroactive and annual bill of over $22k as child support, depending on his salary. Ignorance is not bliss in this context.
I’m with Roycroft. How does the baby have health insurance? Whose insurance is the mom on? Does your son really want his wages garnished down the road even if he’s been consistently doing “the right thing” but was unaware of his legal rights and responsibilities??? Lawyering up is not always about being contentious and litigious. Sometimes it’s just about getting educated.
I agree with @roycroftmom and @blossom. Having an attorney does not mean that it’s going to be a divisive thing.
That young lady and her parents are slowly but surely going to figure out that it’s expensive to have a child without the support of both parents.
She’s going to want her dollars when things come up. Who knows if this child will have any God-forbid major illnesses or diseases that require lots of insurance.
Insurance isn’t cheap. Going to the doctor isn’t cheap. Who’s going to pay for all of that?
If the son is required to pay for that, then he at least needs a lawyer they can tell him who it what his rights should be and it doesn’t have to be in a litigious capacity.
My niece is in a similar situation. There are a lot of issues that require somebody just to delineate what the rules are. That third-party happens to be a lawyer.
OP: what if mom decides to move to another state? My niece did.
If mom, later, decides to marry someone else-who wants to adopt her child- What happens to your son then?
What if mom decides to cut off all contact at one point?
There is no current contract between your son and the mother of the child and so that means there’s nothing legally binding her to staying put.
Your son needs a lawyer.
It isn’t unusual for new parents (including those in long term committed relationships, with long planned for new babies) to see attorneys to make wills and be sure they have done with they need to begin responsibly planning for the future.
Seeing a lawyer doesn’t have to be presented as a negative. It’s about protecting baby, even though it also has the potential to protect your son.
There is no current contract between your son and the mother of the child and so that means there’s nothing legally binding her to staying put.
OP has now described how her son is dedicated to this child. But it seems to be in casual or at-will terms. That’s what exposes your son- and OP- to this great risk of future uncertainty. So to say, nothing’s in ink.
It’s 2020. Couples choose to live together or not, have children, let parents provide the roof over their heads, whatever. But traditionally…
It’s when a couple IS certain of the (initially, at least,) permanent commitment they are willing to make, the “rules” they’re willing to abide by, defined by society and government, that they choose to marry. That’s where you formally declare the intention to operate as a couple. More than just good will actions.
If, for any reason, marriage is not on the table, I don’t see how anyone can just assume this ‘family’ relationship is going to work out indefinitely, that either party won’t change.
Marriage is not a perfect union, or permanent. But if it’s not in the picture, that does speak to the uncertainty, the fact that each parent remains legally independent.
So why not let an attorney clarify? It doesn’t have to be presented as aggressive or distrustful. You ask for info, what do we need to be aware of or establish now? It would be about becoming informed, open to considerations they may not know.
@morrismm, I don’t mean to sound harsh, but if my daughter got pregnant by a man who then wanted her to have an abortion, I would be extremely protective both of her and of my grandchild. This is human nature, or maybe just maternal nature.
IDK, if my child or I got pregnant after a 6 month dating relationship. I think it’s within the rights of both of the people in the relationship to talk about their options. It doesn’t change the love they feel for that child once it’s born. It’s about options when a pregnancy occurs before a long term committed relationship. And it’s only a conversation that should occur between the couple. IMO
We have good friends who’s daughter had a child with someone she never married and there was never any a formal set up. The couple was in a relationship but broke up. The father was a good father. The mother found a new boyfriend, they both quit their jobs and were planning on moving many states away without telling the father of the child. Our friends, the maternal grandparents, told the father before the mother moved. The father then got the courts involved, got a formal custody agreement. The mother never moved. The maternal grandparents did the right thing. Unfortunately, their relationship with their granddaughter has changed as the mother was not pleased.
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, I don't mean to sound harsh, but if my daughter got pregnant by a man who then wanted her to have an abortion, >>>>>>>>>
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I think his opinion is more than valid. IMO this is a very tricky area, if the female had led him to believe she was on birth control, he should have a say in whether he wants to have a real live child. 27 yr old sexually active women don't need to get pregnant. Condoms are highly fallible. IMO condoms are only for STDs.
He’s 33 and I’m sure he’s capable of figuring this out. Just…stop. Anything you do to get involved will only sabotage whatever civility there is left in a relationship that’s already dysfunctional.
Back when my sons were in their teens and I still gave lots of unsolicited advice, my advice was that if their partner became pregnant, it was totally her decision whether to terminate and their responsibility to respect that decision. What was in their control was using condoms, or abstaining. And I told them, “you have been my top priority, but once you have a child, the child becomes the priority, for me and for you”.
Many will disagree with my point of view, however OP certainly isn’t letting her son off the hook for an unplanned pregnancy. She writes "S, however, was having a difficult time coming to grips with being a father. I didn’t have much sympathy. If you have sex, there is always a possibility. ( yes they were using birth control.) "
@Sybylla , I agree that the child’s father should have a say in this. But I can see why the girl’s mother would be protective of her daughter in the circumstances.
I just hope that baby’s pediatrician convinces the mother to have the child vaccinated, regardless of the pressure she is getting from both sides.
I feel like the issue of vaccination is so much less important than the OP being able to have a meaningful and close relationship with “her only grand baby!!!”
At least it would be for me.
The child is and will continue to be vulnerable to illnesses that can kill. There is no relationship to be had if a baby dies of a vaccine preventable illness. It’s not “important” until it is.
That said, the grandparent doesn’t get a say on this issue. Perhaps the father of the baby can try to convince the mom to vaccinate the child, but it doesn’t sound as if the odds are very much in favor of that happening. The mother and family are counting on herd immunity to protect them. That may or may not work out for them.
Some of you have asked about my adult S living at home. He is an anomaly. I wrote about him a lot on CC threads in the past. He is very smart. Had high stats in HS and was accepted to many great schools. He graduated from a highly ranked LA University with a degree in physics and math. But he has very little motivation or ambition. He always takes the easiest path. Living at home is the easiest path. He is underemployed. His biggest interest is theater and music. His GF was a theater major in college. So they met through the local theater scene.
I guess I am starting to understand why our S should see an attorney. We live in NY, so if any of you know anything about this state, let me know.
@morrismm It has been a while so please don’t take any of what I am about to say as gospel (consult a lawyer), but when I lived in New York, my landlord had a contentious relationship with his ex-wife and I involuntarily heard plenty about custody, child support and child rearing ‘discussions’.
As far as I remember, NY courts have a pretty standard % that they assess for child support (if memory serves me, it was somewhere between 17-25% of the non-custodial parents income). If your son isn’t yet paying money to his child’s mother regularly, I would highly recommend he start to do so.
If I were trying to show that I was meaningfully trying to support my newborn child, I would suggest your son start to sending/giving at least $100/week in child support (That would be 20% of a $25k yearly salary as you said your son is underemployed). H should write a check (do not give cash), so that he has a record of the support he has given since his daughter’s birth. Since the baby was born last month, he might just want to write a check for $800 (for the months of Jan/Feb) and give it to his girlfriend so that she can use that to help with the expenses of his daughter.
He could also ask if she would prefer a monthly or weekly check going forward. This can be explained very simply as he loves his daughter very much and wants to make sure he is helping even though he and his girlfriend aren’t living together. He should also make sure he writes in the memo space “Baby Name’s Support” so that it is clear why he is making those payments.
Babies are expensive, that $100 isn’t gong to go very far so I hope your son can keep that in perspective when he decides how much he wants to give regularly to Lina. But he needs to start doing that asap.
Good luck with this situation, I highly agree with the other posters that if you want a relationship with your grandchild, do your best to create a good relationship with your grandchild’s mother. She is the gatekeeper, so you may find you have to ‘duck tape your mouth’ as I’ve heard said before when she shares her perspective on how she is going to raise her child. Keep your eye on keeping access to your grandchild - make Lina know that if she calls you - you will always be willing to help, always be happy to hear from her, always be willing to defer to her decisions as to how she is going to parent. The more you can do that, the more likely it is that you will get more access to your granddaughter.
This will be hard, but that baby is Lina’s and until your son is willing to stand up/fight on those bigger issues, you don’t have a lot of wiggle room. Even if your son does decide to fight on the vaccination issues, I would recommend staying a neutral party in that issue so that you can continue to see your grandchild. You don’t need to tell Lina how you feel about that, you can just be another support to her when/if she needs it.
Personally, I feel the child’s most basic right (or call it our obligation to children) is to be raised with consistent love, nurture, and guidance to grow into a healthy and productive young adult. That includes confidence, good decision making skills, personal and social responsibility, the energy to follow through on goals, as well as obligations. And more.
I won’t say that ‘requires’ the parents be legally bound by marriage. “Family” comes in many versions. But it requires consistency.
I’m concerned what we have here is more ad hoc. Dad’s participating, but is he going to continue and to what degree? (And the running question whether he understands what that means or is expected of him.) Will he tackle the hard parts, with some degree of self sacrifice? That’s more than we can see for a 2-month old, carrying her to doc appts. It’s when she’s ill and needs him, so Mom can get to work, regardless of his own prefs or other plans. It’s the care many of us put into practicing good parenting, as opposed to random indulgences. It includes a responsible (and consistent) level of financial support.
I’m sorry, but a grandparent’s desire to have a meaningful relationship comes after that, is icing, to me. It comes after the child’s basic needs are taken care of, considered and ensured. We all know stories and studies of what happens when children are born and the day-to-day needs are not fully met.
The Mom made it to 27, so far. Her decisions aren’t the ones we’d make, but she seems satisfied with her parents’ parenting. Seems to me that the first-and vital- concern from us should be the vulnerable child’s needs, before the niceness of other relatives bonding.
I’m sorry if that offends. I think, from the way OP holds back a bit that she’s aware this is a big challenge all around. So if DS is uncertain or immature or financially limited, etc, (“IF”…i don’t know,) it’s the child’s needs that come first, that should be ensured- first and foremost.
Your son needs to grow up fast, and hopefully will. He now has a daughter to support which means he has to step up to a better job and determine what kind of relationship he wants with the mom and his child. First step is clearly getting a better-paying job and then hopefully moving closer to the mom and kid or have them move with him. If this were my son, my primary goal would be to get him to meet his responsibilities and to support him in making that happen. Having him more involved and present might help with the other issues as well.
Do update if you convince your son to see a lawyer.
I have been thinking of this thread & one of the male managers I work with.
Three kids with the GF, never married, no legal custody arrangement, no financial arrangement — and a volatile relationship resulting in them living apart more years than together.
He thought he was doing the right thing by handing over money for expenses, but never kept track. When angry at him, she would keep the kids away, including blocking his number on his cell phone. Lots of demands that he hand over more $$ for the kids.
Obviously, he could have avoided a whole lot of suffering by seeking legal counsel early on, but at the time? he just figured things would work out and he was a nice guy, right?
The oldest is 19 now, and he just, finally, got out of court with spelled out financial support, custody, and visitation for the two remaining minors.
Agree with the above. The greatest gift you can give the baby would be a functioning, responsible adult father. I would re-focus my efforts from the baby to your son, and explore whatever options-therapy, medicine, tough love, whatever- that would help get him to a point where he can be the father this child needs.