<p>The above three links should be must read for parents in my view. They show that </p>
<p>1) The job market for new college grads is very difficult
2) Half of college grads work in low skill jobs that do not require a college degree
3) The outlook for LA grads are especially bleak
4) The debt load for the average college graduate is going higher and higher</p>
<p>Given that, as a parent, what role should one play to guide his/her kids? Is the old model of let-kids-be-kids and have fun without studying hard, and then choose a liberal arts college and area of focus, still going to work in today’s global economy?</p>
Did I miss the memo on this? What does choosing a liberal arts college and area of focus have to do with having fun without studying hard? Are you saying that kids who have fun and don’t study hard are the kids who choose LACs? Are you saying that kids who choose a liberal arts focus don’t study hard, by virtue of their chosen field of study? Clarification, please. I don’t agree with your premise(s), but perhaps that’s because I don’t understand what you mean.</p>
<p>1) LA educations is still a good choice
2) If the job market is so bleak, whether getting into the tippy-top schools is now needed
3) Hence, whether parents should encourage kids to work very hard from the get go to achieve a STEM degree from a very rigorous school</p>
<p>My plumber has a college degree in philosophy. He lives in a neighborhood that most of his clients can’t afford; he employs a dozen people, many of whom are also college grads and live upper middle class lives.</p>
<p>What’s your point? Just because you don’t need a college degree to become a plumber he shouldn’t have read Kant and Hegel? And now he out-earns most professionals (probably you, Indian Parent). He’s terrific. His clients adore him. Every time he shows up to estimate a job he reinforces the value of hard work, entrepreneurship, and the payoff of a liberal arts education. He’s articulate, well read, and an informed citizen and voter.</p>
<p>Why do you keep starting threads to pick a fight and be provocative?</p>
<p>GAMOM, Do not blame me please, blame New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and National Public Radio for reporting some very concerning news which I think parents should know.</p>
<p>blossom, If your plumber feels that paying $250k to learn to read Kant and Hegel (which I did for free) was worth it, then it is absolutely OK. May all the college graduates working in retail today have the same sentiment, and may they all become plumbers one day too.</p>
<p>Blossom, I would be curious if your plumber would choose to pursue a degree in philosophy if he was given a “do over”. Not because I think he should have done anything differently. I am just curious what he thinks given his ultimate career and the current economic environment.</p>
<p>You’ve got to be kidding. Did you just wake up today and learn that people shouldn’t take out loans they can’t pay back-whether for a big screen TV, a cruise, a college education, or a luxury condo.</p>
<p>You keep grinding your axe about the number of kids in America getting a college education who shouldn’t be in college. Does it bother you to deal with a police officer who has a college degree? Do you get upset when the person operating the dials while you’re getting an MRI has actually gotten an education vs. just vocational training on how to turn on the damn machine? Have these people somehow taken something that belongs to you?</p>
<p>If not- stop complaining. Not everyone wants a STEM major. You benefit every single day from living in a society where the value of education runs deeply through our culture, and is not the province of those who can get admitted to IIT or score in the 99th percentile on a standardized test. There are many immigrants who don’t buy in to aspects of American culture but it is beyond insulting to insinuate that we should restrict access to college to people who meet your criteria for worthiness.</p>
<p>1) The job market for new college grads is very difficult</p>
<p>THe current job market for ** anyone** is very difficult 2) Half of college grads work in low skill jobs that do not require a college degree
But those grads are much more likely than those without a degree, to be ever paid a living wage.
[quote]
In 2008, the median of the earnings of young adults with a bachelor’s degree was $46,000,
while the median was $36,000 for those with an associate’s degree, $30,000 for those with a high school diploma or its equivalent, and $23,500 for those who did not earn a high school diploma or its equivalent.
In other words, in 2008, young adults with a bachelor’s degree earned 28 percent more than young adults with an associate’s degree, 53 percent more than young adult high school completers, and 96 percent more than young adults who did not earn a high school diploma. In 2008, the median of the earnings of young adults with a master’s degree or higher was $55,000</p>
<p>My plumber is an erudite and successful small business owner. And he believes he “uses” his education every single day, whether it’s helping him as a manager, sorting out business ethics, or just contributing to the public good by doing an honest days work for an honest days pay.</p>
<p>I would be thrilled if any of my kids showed an interest in the trades. A dirty little secret in some very posh suburbs is how much money there is to be made in landscaping, plumbing, and electrical contracting.</p>
<p>Indian Parent- I take it you don’t personally know anyone who has studied one of the liberal arts, graduated in the last few years, and has become successful in a career? You should get out more.</p>
<p>I agree about skilled trades…I have just run into a number of people that are doing something so opposite of what they went to school for that they will openly state they wish they had done X instead of Y. I was just curious what your plumber would say.</p>
<p>I just feel bad for the kids who graduate with a massive debt load and then get a job for which there is no need for a degree. I also feel bad for those kids who graduate and get a job for which there is indeed a need for a degree, but who were shortchanged in their education as the standards were lowered to accommodate the former group.</p>
<p>EK, The problem with medians is that they don’t tell the full story of the folks that fall below the median. I am not sure that the median wage for college graduates with wages in the bottom half of all college graduates is more than that of high school graduates. In other words, these kids in the bottom half likely gained nothing from the college degree. I wonder if they should have gone to college at all.</p>
<p>I have no disagreement that a degree from the absolute top college in a non-LA area totally pays off. Witness, for example, the other thread about the Dartmouth grad whose friends in engineering and sciences all found analyst jobs. This is also why parents from a certain ethnicity push their kids to go to the top colleges and into STEM.</p>
<p>No, no, I am concerned that they wasted their money and in the process also pulled down the standards for everyone. I am perfectly fine if they did nothing with their degree and still got paid a lot.</p>
<p>FWIW, I received a STEM degree from a rigorous university where I was also Phi Beta Kappa. Got a grad degree too. Worked in that field for a while before my entire research site was closed and those jobs were outsourced to another country.</p>
<p>Moral of the story: A STEM major does not guarantee a good, high-paying job, especially in today’s economy. Don’t push your kids into a field just because of some perceived stereotype about employability.</p>
<p>Anyway, jokes and personal digs aside, given the current job market, what should parents tell their kids when it comes to education? I know what one certain ethnic group is telling its kids, and what that will mean for the composition of the high paying job market in the coming decades. What should parents outside that specific ethnic group do?</p>
<ol>
<li> No kidding (and I think EK addressed this)</li>
<li> That would be my daughter, who double majored in theatre performance and vocal performance.</li>
<li> She got that double major at an LAC</li>
<li> She has no loans; thanks to some nice merit awards and our savings, neither of us have any loans.</li>
</ol>
<p>
She loved her LAC and the opportunities it offered her to explore other areas besides her majors (one of which she is now developing since graduation).
Her school (50% of CC parents have never heard of), was recently ranked #1 by one of the major ranking publications (but, really, who cares?) in her major area.
She would have been absolutely miserable with a STEM major, despite the fact that her dad has his Ph.D. in one of them and has been very successful. </p>
<p>IP, she’s 22 years old; she’s got the rest of her life to figure out some of the issues that you’re insisting parents need to brainwash their kids into at a young age. I went back to grad school in my early 40s. I would love it, as my kids mature and become more worldly (it shows they value personal growth), if they found they had another passion in life and decided to pursue it with a higher degree. I would not have one ounce of regret for spending the money we did when they were 18-22.</p>