<p>How about if we ask all Med. / Law / Grad. schools to eliminate all entrance requirements and take any kids with any stats straight from HS? Why not? They might need to have few years going thru applications, which means that kids will need to apply probably right after Junior High. But it is a very small rice to pay for getting rid of grades, tests, choosing MD who is better… not it will not eliminate the last one, everybody will know which one killed few dozens before he learned his trade because he happened never learned anywhere, he was not graded anywhere so it was no reason to study…</p>
<p>"Finally, we should prick the B.A. bubble. The bachelors degree has become a driver of class divisions at the same moment in history when it has become educationally meaningless. We dont need legislation to fix this problem, just an energetic public interest law firm that challenges the constitutionality of the degree as a job requirement. </p>
<p>After all, the Supreme Court long ago ruled that employers could not use scores on standardized tests to choose among job applicants without demonstrating a tight link between the test and actual job requirements. It can be no more constitutional for an employer to require a piece of paper called a bachelors degree, which doesnt even guarantee that its possessor can write a coherent paragraph."</p>
<ul>
<li>Charles Murray</li>
</ul>
<p>That should include all medical facilites that hire MD’s. There is no way they should demand that only licensed MD practice medicine, as licensing involved standardized testing.<br>
Here we go, there is no reason to worry about cost of Med. School / Law School,…etc. as these schools are basically against the law by Charles Murray.</p>
<p>A solution in search of a problem. Every employer I’ve ever heard of requires a degree “or equivalent experience” for precisely the reasons Murray raises.</p>
<p>Conservative intellectual David Frum has completely deconstructed and eviscerated every one of Murray’s arguments.</p>
<p>[Is</a> the White Working Class Coming Apart??David Frum - The Daily Beast](<a href=“Is the White Working Class Coming Apart?—David Frum”>Is the White Working Class Coming Apart?—David Frum)</p>
<p>…“every employer” include hospitals, correct? Then I might try to apply for MD position there, I have enough experience after raising two of my children…I will try see what happens since it is against the law to request having Medical license, it might as well work…</p>
<p>@Slithey Tove:</p>
<p>I did read this article and the previous one about this book. And the quote you used does resonate with me. But I don’t think we can attribute the isolation of classes nowadays from each other to “elite education.”</p>
<p>In my idealized memory of America, there was a time when the town physician, banker, and factory owner rubbed elbows at the hardware store on Main Street with the laborer, housewife, school teacher (who taught them all) and police chief. And they all knew the town drunk. They had a sense of each other’s lives.</p>
<p>Now, the wealthy live in gated communities, their children are in private school, the laborer is unemployed, and the school teacher is getting lambasted in the newspapers. The rich and the working classes ARE isolated from each other and we spend our time blaming one another for society’s ills. No wonder that rich politicians have little idea what regular people think.</p>
<p>Well, I slept at a Holiday Inn last night, I guess I can apply for that brain surgeon job at the hospital now :D…</p>
<p>I’ve not heard of this guy until this thread. Is he for real??</p>
<p>Skyhook,
You seem to separate teachers from rich. How come? They are rich, they have practically tenure job as they cannot be fired especially for non-performance at 6 digits salary positions? It sounds pretty rich as most other have to have both spouses working to get this kind of income.</p>
<p>polarscribe, it’s not so much about agreeing with Murray’s arguments as it is seeing why he’s suggesting that the B.A. not be an auto-requirement for all jobs. There was an article a few years back by an anonymous community college professor who wrote about teaching english literature to part-time students who needed an english class…for their day jobs as police officers. If they wanted to be promoted, they needed a two-year degree. It had nothing to do with the job’s duties. A lot of the students couldn’t pass the first time, so they had to take the class twice or more, paying each time. This wasn’t an area with public cheap community colleges, so it meant taking out loans, or spending money people didn’t have. Not to mention not having time for other things, arranging for childcare, and so on. </p>
<p>Now, if you’re a publisher and you want to hire some new copy editors then yeah, asking for a B.A. makes sense. Or you could ask to see their SAT CR scores. That’s the kind of job where there is “a tight link between the test and actual job requirements”, as it says in the quote glido provided.</p>
<p>
SteveMA, had you never heard of “The Bell Curve,” which he co-wrote with Richard Herrnstein? It caused quite a stir about 15 years ago. Whether you agree with his viewpoint or not (and I usually don’t), he is a well-known political scientist/author whose previous work has been discussed extensively. I’d say he’s “for real.”</p>
<p>
Murray has demonstrated that you can get a B.A. without knowing anything about the Constitution.</li>
</ul>
<p>MiamiDAP–tenure does NOT mean what you think it means and teachers, even with tenure, can most certainly be fired for things other than non-performance and just how many teachers do you know that make 6 figures?</p>
<p>frazzled1–15 years ago I had 4 kids under the age of 5–it is all a blur…:D. No, I am not familiar with that book.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t know where you live, but teachers in my town aren’t on the same planet as six figures. I know several who work second jobs to make it go.</p>
<p>No, I certainly don’t lump them with rich people.</p>
<p>[Oh wait, I guess you live in Miami.]</p>
<p>Agreeing with Skyhook. I guess I should tell my friends to move to Miami to be a teacher! Sounds like big bucks. It pains me to see my local teachers working over the summer at water parks, or doing taxes at the local places to make ends meet, but that is common around my area. After all, they also have to pay off their masters degrees which are not reimbursed by their employers.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>The bachelors degree may or may not be educationally meaningless, but it is far less a driver of class divisions today than at any previous time. Thanks to the GI Bill and other programs designed to boost access to higher education to people of all socio-economic levels, the percentage of US adults with a BA/BS today stands higher (and still climbing) than ever before. </p>
<p>At the end of WWII only a bout 5% of US American adults had a college degree. Today that percentage has increased over 5-fold to >25%. And it continues to grow. College is no longer confined to rich kids and blue-bloods; the children of say the guy running the local dry cleaners get to go to college too. The bachelors degree is not driving class the divide. It is breaking down the class the divide due to its far greater availability.</p>
<p>Here is the teacher salary data from my state for teachers with 20+ years experience:</p>
<p>73 make 30-40k
1897 make 40-50k
2677 make 50-60k
1261 make 60k+…highest salary I saw was $77,000.</p>
<p>Harvard doesn’t award the BA degree. That made me lol</p>
<p>^ Do you know if they did in 1965?</p>