<p>" . . . we should prick the B.A. bubble. The bachelor’s degree has become a driver of class divisions at the same moment in history when it has become educationally meaningless. We don’t need legislation to fix this problem, just an energetic public interest law firm that challenges the constitutionality of the degree as a job requirement. "</p>
<p>Charles Murray in today’s NYT.</p>
<p>He opines that the federal courts would rule that it is illegal for employers to demand that a job applicant have a BA because there is no way the the modern BA could correlate to any job.</p>
<p>I’m not a fan, but he’s certainly already made a name for himself: [AEI</a> - Scholars - Charles Murray](<a href=“http://www.aei.org/scholar/charles-murray/]AEI”>http://www.aei.org/scholar/charles-murray/) He co-wrote The Bell Curve, an influential book about the role of IQ in US society, and also frequently contributes essays to important periodicals.</p>
<p>He may opine away, but this Supreme Court would never vote to restrict the freedom of a business it would seem, espcially in hiring. As for the BA, I would like to think that a BA means that a candidate should be able to write clearly, have some critical thinking skills and have a breadth of knowledge on a few topics other than poplular culture. I am aware that in practice that is not always the case.</p>
<p>The Supreme Court has already restricted business from using standardized tests for hiring unless they can show a direct correlation with the tasks of the job.</p>
<p>Murray is definitely trying to be provocative, but does he have a point that a BA is not really related to a lot of jobs that require them for hiring. Interesting that he does not make the same argument against the BS.</p>
<p>Charles Murray is an opinion of one. While his writings are interesting–and controversial and thought-provoking–I for one would not draw any conclusions solely from him on any subject.</p>
<p>Disclosure: I have not read Mr. Murray’s book, “Coming Apart,” just reviews and discussions of it.</p>
<p>I thought the point of his book was to point out all the problems besetting the working class, and how the working class is becoming more remote from the professional class. Ok.</p>
<p>Eliminating the requirement for a bachelor’s degree, for most jobs, seems like a weak solution, one that would create more havoc than help. Yes, there might be that “diamond in the rough” non-BA applicant who could do the job, but how much additional work would HR people go through to find that person amidst all the others? And do working class people WANT these jobs?</p>
<p>No, the way to help the working class is JOBS. JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, JOBS. Generate some decent jobs that don’t require a college degree, like we used to have in America. Let’s build some roads, some hi-speed rail, fix our bridges and crappy buildings. Train people to assist elders and people with disabilities.</p>
<p>Basically eliminating the BA would transfer the “training” to the employer, increasing THEIR costs significantly. I am the first thing to give in a situation like that would be salary. They would start paying $10/hour for entry level jobs…</p>
<p>As for creating “working class” jobs. The problem with that still comes down to training. It used to be that a mechanic would turn on your car, listen to the engine, maybe drive it around the block a few times and guess what was wrong with your car. Now everything is computerized. Does your high school have the funds to fully train a mechanic these days?</p>
<p>Also, building high speed rails is all well and good, but how are you going to PAY for these projects and fund the upkeep?</p>
<p>“Outlaw the BA” is a misread of Murray’s article; he uses “B.A.” simply as a synonym for “bachelor’s degree”. Rather, he is advocating that job descriptions should not require a bachelor’s degree. Instead, the descriptions should state the skills that are required. His argument is that bachelor’s degrees have become more an indicator of “upper-class privilege” rather than being truly educated. I can see the point that one might have the skills for a job without having a bachelor’s degree.</p>
<p>spurster-most experienced HR people or hiring managers will be able to see that quite easily by a resume too…If you don’t have a BA but say, invented the Apple computer, your experience would stand out with most managers.</p>
<p>A BA is hardly an “upper class privilege” any more.</p>
<p>"He opines that the federal courts would rule that it is illegal for employers to demand that a job applicant have a BA "</p>
<p>-Another very intrusive regulation from government? It might even already exist, who knows, they produce more than 1200 / month currently, pretty soon they will produce duplicates, government has to do something, shovelling papers and killing private business are very noble ways to spend taxpayers’ money and actualy decrease number of taxpayers…perfect example of government existing in no-logic zone.</p>
<p>I totally agree that having a bachelor degree, or any kind of degree, doesn’t PROVE you have certain skills. Just like not having the degree doesn’t prove you don’t have the skills.</p>
<p>However, in the real world employers have to use something to make the first cut among many applicants. If you have the luxury to do in-depth interviews of everyone who walks in your door, by all means eliminate all application requirements, and consider everyone. However, most employers need to have ways to narrow the group down to those most likely to be hireable, because they have limited time and staff to do this. (The same reason colleges use the SAT, to make the first cut.)</p>
<p>Also, an employer leaves himself open to charges of employment discrimination more often by hiring by the seat of his pants than if he has objective markers like education requirements.</p>
<p>Murray writes about the class divide in the US, and how there is little social and cultural overlap between the upper middle class and the working class. He’s not anti-education–far from it. A quote from the WSJ piece to give some of the flavor:</p>
<p>How about if we ask all colleges to eliminate any GPA or test scores as part of their entrance requirements too–heck, let’s admit students based on a resume they submit without any kind of verification that what they put on there is REAL…because we all know that high school students don’t embellish their “stats”…that is pretty much what he is asking of employers with this.</p>