<p>Maybe this has been mentioned (I slept only three hours last night and can’t read straight!) but another reason companies outsource is to avoid regulation. This can mean overseas or just outsourcing to temps. For example, the local university hires a HUGE number of adjuncts so they do not have to pay benefits. My husband outsources a lot of work for his company because he can’t afford various regulations (for example: a friend of ours lost his company to bankruptcy after two legal battles with employees - one was a woman who was hired while pregant, one was “disabled” - both these things were found out after being hired. In both cases, the employess almost immediately stopped working. You can imagine what this does to a very small company with miniscule profit margins. There’s no way in heck my husband can afford to risk something like that happening).</p>
<p>I am politically more of a progressive than a conservative, and I believe in some regulations to protect the environment and workers’ rights. So this is NOT about me - it’s about the very simple fact that if you are regulated out the wazoo, you will find ways around it - for your company’s self-preservation. Of course, for huge multi-national corporations that could AFFORD to meet regulations, it’s a different story.</p>
<p>rhonda-
It doesn’t “bother” me, per se, that the outsourced employees all use diluted, milktoast pesudonyms, but I must admit, it insults my intelligence. In all the times I have called cust svc. and gotten an overseas employee, never once have I been anything but a bland, fake western name. Funny. Of all the indian/pakistani/indonesian etc employees that work with or for my h., not ONE has a western name. Sometimes they shorten their name to make it easier to pronounce, but they are not Bob or Steve or Jane or Sue or Sally. Please. Its a matter of honesty. Goes right along with telling me they can’t tell me where they are located, for security purposes. Thats absurd. It feel like they are trying to pretend they are not overseas. Why do they need to do that??? </p>
<p>Also, if I have a problem that is not resolved or needs follow-up, I like to tell the next cust svce rep who I had spoken to previously. I usually ask for a first name and last initial, or, if necessary, an employee ID #. I have found that to be extrememly helpful. Doesn’t work when you get a fake-o name from someone whose real name might be Sreemanth or Pratik or Sahil. You might think that they enter specifics about your problem into your file, but not all files are accessible in all databases. I found this out when trying to resolve a snafoo with my cellphone service. They couldn’t access each other’s database, but when I was able to tell them who I spoke to and in what city, they were able to take that information and figure out how to access it. </p>
<p>Also, when I was in HS I did telephone calling for a local political candidate. I was told to introduce myself as Alice Johnson. All the girls making the calls were Alice Johnson. Needed a non-ethnic sounding generic name. I understand their reasoning, but I dont have to like it.</p>
<p>So, when you get back from Bombay after having your quadruple bypass surgery performed by Dr John Smith, let us know how it turns out.</p>
<p>I spent all day yesterday trying to set up cellphone service.
I already had a number but for some reason I couldn’t do it online- & I have dial up and not a working cellphone so I couldn’t do it with them walking me through. Took all day- I couldn’t stand it- ( I would try to do stuff on line- wouldn’t work so I would call them up- they would make suggestions- I would get back online- wouldn’t work- call them up…repeat)Finally got it straightened up despite getting disconnected in the middle of setting up service- but they were just over in Bellevue-
I haven’t had to call the Punjab lately- we don’t have credit cards or cable so all our services are handled right here-I am really irritated however that there isn’t a local # for the local post office. You have to call Utah or South Dakota or something- ridiculous</p>
<p>Long ago, there was a very prosperous country called Argentina. In 1900 they were one of the richest countries in the world, with a stable government and the beginnings of modern social welfare programs. Argentina was one of the richest countries in the world; the richest countries in the world were America, Germany, Great Britain, France, and Argentina. </p>
<p>And then a series of protectionist, socialist governments took power and put up trade barriers against importing from other countries. Initially this worked pretty well, but over time Argentina’s factories and cutting edge technologies became antiquated; the country stagnated. When Argentina started to open up to the rest of the world again, Argentinian companies could not compete with overseas companies simply because they made worse products with older methods. Long story short, Argentina never really recovered from this.</p>
<p>The moral of the story is that competition may hurt in the short run, but is essential to improving in the long run. </p>
<p>Yes, the current situation with outsourcing in the United States is very different from the situation Argentina faced decades ago, but the Argentina story is something still worth thinking about.</p>
<p>Sorry, jym, but I don’t buy your rationale here. Don’t you think that the “fake name” is associated with a real person, and with that name, the company can identify who you spoke to, if you need to make a follow-up call (I have done this, and they had no problem figuring out who I spoke to, there are records of all these conversations). As someone with a difficult Asian name that Americans have (all my life) attempted to change to “Suzie” because they didn’t want to even attempt to pronounce my real name, I find it ironic and even a little amusing that now Americans are complaining when Indians try to make their (the Americans) lives easier by using a generic name. </p>
<p>And of course, I assume you are aware that it’s not the choice of the person answering the phone to do this, it is their company’s policy. So if your intelligence is being insulted, it’s AT&T that is insulting it – perhaps you should complain to them and tell them you would prefer to have the customer service reps use their real names, which you would be happy to try to pronounce and ask them to spell when you need to write them down. Rather than complaining to the (American) people who actually made the decision, I guess it’s easier for you to blame the Indian answering the phone.</p>
<p>And your snide remark about surgery in Bombay (now called Mumbai, btw) was unnecessary. I think you have bigger issues here than people using fake names.</p>
<p>Rhonda-
We will have to politely agree to disagree on this one. I had the EXACT same experience that Emeraldkitty had with a cellphone company, and believe me, it was a nightmare trying to straighten it out, took many hours and many phonecalls, and as I said, if I hadn’t been able to tell them the office(s) I spoke with earlier,and who I spoke with (both technical and management) they would not have been able to fix their mix-ups. Because their systems didn’t communicate, every time they fixed one thing, it messed up another. And they could not trace the entire history of the whole mess in one database. Silly, but that is how their system worked. Lucky for me I had written down the chain of events, dates, times, location of office and with whom I spoke. Not only did my h. and I spend all day (literally) on the phone/computer with this cellphone co to get my s’s service and new phone in the first place, but it then took literally months to get the other messes cleaned up with our account. I don’t care if they only give me “operator # 25”. At least it is a unique identification, especially when I also know the location they are in. I don’t really think I am the one making a big deal out of this. </p>
<p>As for your theory about it being company policy to use a generic name, I would have no way of knowing whether your statement is accurate or not, or whether the employees are asked to use “unique” (by unique I mean individualized, not unusual) names. I can tell you, though, that when I call American Express and I get someone in the US, they are willing to tell me where they are located. Same is true for when I call and get Canada. Yet somehow, in the nighttime, when the phones roll to India, they cant/wont tell me where they are located, for “security” reasons. That doesn’t sound like a company policy to me. </p>
<p>I understand from your previous posts that you are Indian-American, and I am sorry that people have had a hard time pronouncing your name. I had a very hard-to-pronounce last name before I got married, so I can sympathize. But I think you are personalizing my statements a bit too much. Also, I thought my joke about having heart surgery from “John Smith” was funny. Maybe it wasn’t. But, it wasn’t meant to be snide. I think you are being a little too sensitive.</p>
<p>Rhonda63 - you are far too sensitive over an issue such as this. Jym626’s comment on surgery, which i will readily admit i found funny, was merely a light-hearted joke. Also, your very first post on this thread seemed confrontational. The major issues that americans have with outsourcing jobs is the loss of jobs at home and a significant decrease in customer service, which JYM and EmeraldKity have recently expirienced. Your argument that we would not be ready to have such a high increase in bills is not entirely true. I, for one, would readily fork over a few extra bucks for a decent customer service.</p>
<p>the point I was trying to make that the problem I had with the cell company wasn’t because of outsourcing- the people I was dealing with were less than 10 miles from me in Bellevue wa- I knew this cause I was joking with the sales rep about needing a cell phone with a camera so I could take it into a concert that otherwise bans cameras. </p>
<p>However- my husbands company that has relied on outsourcing/subcontracting to cut costs has found that ulimately it is more expensive as the subcontactor may have never done similar work before and has underestimated the skill needed and cost of materials. When the parts that were to be made in China or Mexico or even in the Midwest someplace- to save money, aren’t up to specs and the original company has to do them over again- then that costs everyone more money. What my husbands company found out is that they laid off people to save money- workers were sometimes hired at a lower wage & benefits at a subcontractor- so skills were retained but sometimes they completely went out of the area so those skills were lost.
Eventually I can see that perhaps this will result in higher skilled jobs elsewhere- but in the short term it is resulting in higher production costs, and higher unemployment rates in US in industries that are switching to non union represented- often times third world factories.</p>
<p>Jym – Let me just say that I continue to disagree with your statements about “generic names,” and I continue to believe there is something more behind all of this. You are also blaming an Indian customer service rep for what sounds like a much bigger consumer care problem – I wonder why it’s so easy for you to blame an Indian for a problem that is caused by the policies of an American company? Do you really think it is the decision of the Indian operator to refuse to tell you his/her real name and location, or that s/he has been directed not to do so by the US company? Isn’t it quite possible that the company is trying (rather unsuccessfully) to hide the fact that it is outsourcing? Perhaps it’s just easier to blame the foreigner.</p>
<p>And I consider myself simply an American, by the way, not a hyphenated one.</p>
<p>I don’t know if you are intentionally failing to understand what I’m saying, or if you are truly missing my point. Your apology to me for others mispronouncing my name suggests the latter. In any case, I don’t think either of us is going to change the other’s mind, so I am dropping this issue with you now.</p>
<p>Dropout – I disagree that my first post was confrontational. I was simply asking a question – would those opposed to outsourcing be willing to pay higher prices for goods and services. I’m not sure why you are sensitive enough to consider that post confrontational while at the same time finding jym’s statement a light-hearted joke.</p>
<p>Edit – for those vilifying the Indians rather than placing the blame for a practice you disagree with at the feet of those responsible for it (the US companies that choose to outsource), I wonder if you saw the recent articles about India revising its patent laws and the resulting sharp increase in AIDs medication for poor countries (I guess we don’t care that much about the spread of AIDs in Africa and Asia). The legislation was a condition of India’s membership to the WTO, and pushed by US drug companies. One article I read (NY Times) mentioned a US drug company that had pressured our govt to drive out several Indian competitors that were producing a certain medication at a cost to consumers of $2700/year. The US company, now with a global monopoly, is selling the same drug at a cost to consumers of $27000/year. Who is the bad guy here?</p>
<p>Rhonda-
It is unfortunate that you do not wish to politely discuss, but would rather attack and then say you are “done”. Shame. Let us all know when you take that giant chip off your shoulder… You are overreacting again, and being a bit on the paranoid side if you think there is “something more behind all of this”. Sorry you dont want to see other sides to <em>your</em> argument. I am not blaming anyone, nor am I upset, bothered, villifying or whatever adjectives you have used. All I originally said was that I found it “funny” and you went ballistic. YOu are making a giant mountain out of a molehill. Lighten up. Why are you so hostile??? Maybe when you accuse people of being unable to see another point of view you ought to take a hard look in the mirror.</p>
<p>jym – I responded to your points, and you seemed to either deliberately or unintentionally misunderstand what I said and miss my points. I don’t know why you think it is in anyone’s interest to continue this. </p>
<p>I’m sorry for your sake that rather than debating an issue, you prefer to launch attacks against me, calling me paranoid, hostile, and saying “shame.” In addition, your allegations against me are overblown – the terms you claim I used against you were not necessarily directed at you. Again, you seem either unable or unwilling to acknowledge my substantive arguments, but instead prefer to make snide remarks, and now insulting ones.</p>
<p>I hesitate to comment, lest I get jumped all over, but I don’t see it your way, Rhonda. I reviewed this thread, and don’t see where anyone, jym included, is pointing fingers at any particular customer service rep. And why are you making a comment about not hyphenating your heritage
<p>Before my own past posts are examined, I am an Indian living in a city that has quite a few call centres and started this thread because I was merely curious about what intelligent American adults thought of the whole issue.</p>
<p>One of my friends from school is from India, and we call him Sam. Is his name really Sam? No, of course not. But that’s what we call him, and thats what he goes by to everyone. If someone says, hey have you seen sam lately, we know who it is. I’m sure if someone on the phone from another country goes by the name courtney and you call up and say you spoke to courtney, they’ll know who you’re talking about. Unless it’s a guy on the phone going by the name rebecca, I don’t see what the problem is… Moving on…</p>
<p>How about we all just stop acting like we’re 10 and get along… and I mean that in the nicest fashion. This is a bit ridiculous.</p>
<p>Dropout – context is important. You have quoted one sentence out of a thread which, if I recall correctly, was started by a student with parents who had emigrated from India, specifically addressing dating issues. In that context, in which I was relating my experiences as someone who has been in the same situation as the OP, it was important to identify myself as such. The context of the discussion made it important in order for my views to be put into context. </p>
<p>However, to point that out in a thread debating policies of US companies is a different matter. I don’t think my ethnic background is relevant. I’m an American citizen like any other and am entitled to my opinion about those policies. Is there any reason to point out my ethnic background in this context other than to raise the question of whether my true loyalties lie elsewhere? If someone were to debate over Bush’s relationship with Tony Blair, would it be important to point out that their ancestors came here from England?</p>
<p>BTW, I had no idea people here had the time, energy, and interest to dig up my (or anyone else’s) past posts.</p>
<p>well actually I admit I have dug up others posts when I read something that I react strongly to. Context is a lot- & on CC I don’t know that someone is who they say they are. When certain posters post things that seem intended to start a flame war- I may go see what other posts they have recently. ( all you do is click on screen name and click on other posts) I often find that a poster who tends to make strident statements that don’t serve to educate or inform makes similar statements in other threads. I usually try and ignore it if that is the case- but occasionaly I have pointed out their general opinion on other threads so that the thread doesn’t go down the toilet.</p>
<p>When, as someone said in a thread a few weeks ago, gets a “bee in their bonnet” about an issue (in this case, names) , I will sometimes look back and see if I can figure out why that person reacted as they did, by looking at some of their other posts. I think this is helpful in understanding where that person is coming from. I learned this from reading other’s posts along the way on CC. It is done to understand, not as ammunition. In all fairness, I thought that the fact that I could commiserate with Rhonda about having a difficult name to pronounce would help share some commonality, but it was perceived as disingenuous. I cannot help that, as it was meant in all sincerity. So were the apologies. Again, the fact that they were rebuffed is out of my control. </p>
<p>And yes, I agree with Astrix and fendergirl, it is time to move on. But, before we do, I would, really (yes, genuinely be interested, Astrix), in how the outsourced call centers are seen from their end? You could shed light on things upon which we can only hypothesize. Do you, or anyone you know, work in these call centers?? What is that like? Do they like to work for American companies? What kind of rules and regulations are they given? Do these reglations seem reasonable? </p>
<p>As an example, here in the US, managed care companies for healthcare said they would to answer the phone within 2 rings for patients and providers. However, what they didn’t say is that they would then put you on hold for 15’ after they answered the call. I cite this only as an example of what was originally presented as a benefit, but in actuality wasn’t helpful to the customer.</p>
<p>I do look forward to hearing about your observations and experiences about the call centers, Astrix.</p>
<p>Jym – I’m not going to argue with you anymore about the issue here, but I do think it is necessary for me to respond to some of the allegations you make about me.</p>
<p>You say “In all fairness, I thought that the fact that I could commiserate with Rhonda about having a difficult name to pronounce would help share some commonality, but it was perceived as disingenuous.”</p>
<p>My response – I said in a posting that my name is difficult to pronounce. Not sure why you felt you had to know my ethnic background, and mention it, in order to commiserate. Would you not have commiserated if I had a difficult to pronounce Eastern European name? It makes no sense to say you were pointing out that I am of Indian descent in order to commiserate with the difficulty in pronouncing a name.</p>
<p>You also say " I cannot help that, as it was meant in all sincerity. So were the apologies. Again, the fact that they were rebuffed is out of my control."</p>
<p>In reading over your posts, the only apology I find is “Sorry you dont want to see other sides to <em>your</em> argument.” (before which you said “shame” and after which you called me hostile) and “I understand from your previous posts that you are Indian-American, and I am sorry that people have had a hard time pronouncing your name.”</p>
<p>My response – I do not characterize these statements as apologies to me. Mind you, I don’t care that you did not apologize, but it does disturb me that you claim that you did and then accuse me of rebuffing those apologies. I would appreciate it if you get the facts right.</p>