<p>Have you been personally affected by it? Do you resent it / accept it as a way of the world? Do you think quality of service has declined?</p>
<p>I think we have all been personally affected by it. Oviously it isn’t a good thing for American workers, but how can you tell a business not to look for cheaper help. However, it would be much better for the American people if we stop outsourcing.</p>
<p>i think it depends on what you mean. america, as a country, has outpriced ourselves. think about the quality and durability of a japanese car as opposed to the quality of an american car. we essentially build things to break. we did a study in one of our classes once, and found out that one of the american car companies (i don’t know which) employees multiple quality control managers, to look over each car and point out flaws before it leaves the factory. we found out that one of the japanese car companies (again i’m sorry i don’t know which one) doesn’t have any quality control people. their reasoning? because they build it right the first time. someone in another field once said that when they build a product they just try to break even, they don’t care if they make a dime on it… because they’ll make tons of money on service throughout the years. </p>
<p>i think that if a business establishes itself AS an american company, and they let it remain that way, consumers and workers will be more loyal to that company (example: harley davidson… they have a loyal following). i’ve been in the plant where harley’s are made. everyone there gets paid decent money. people WANT to work for harley. other companies in the area had to raise their pay rates, just to compete with harley davidson, because they were getting all of the workers. one of the things that we sell at work are leather jackets, and we only sell american made jackets. we’re not going to walk into a harley davidson dealership and say hey look at this jacket that was made in china. you can easily tell the difference in quality between our jackets and the cheap 99 dollar ones on a sales rack at the mall. </p>
<p>i think that with the massive increases in outsourcing, american made goods have had to raise their quality. they can’t just charge 10 dollars more for everything without a reason (although they try). theyre basically trying to compete with the companies that have outsourced to other countries to cut their costs.</p>
<p>and how have i been personally affected by it? my mom, grandmom, three uncles, and two aunts have lost their jobs in the past four years due to outsourcing.</p>
<p>So are those of you opposed to outsourcing prepared to pay higher prices for goods and services? Let’s say cingular wireless stops outsourcing customer service – are you willing to see your cell phone bill rise, perhaps significantly? Same for your credit card fees, airline ticket prices, etc.</p>
<p>“So are those of you opposed to outsourcing prepared to pay higher prices for goods and services? Let’s say cingular wireless stops outsourcing customer service – are you willing to see your cell phone bill rise, perhaps significantly? Same for your credit card fees, airline ticket prices, etc.”</p>
<p>Absolutely. I’m sorry but why exactly do we need to live in a world where every member of every family has a cell phone, including the 10 yr old kid. What is wrong with getting back to ‘normal life’, the way it was in the 70s-80s, where kids went away to college and spoke to their parents a few times a week at best; as opposed to today where they wander thru the middle of campus with cell phones glued to their ears as they share every detail with mommy and girlfriend and best friend–from what they ate for breakfast to which shirt they’re wearing. Now before you jump up and say my kid doesn’t do that, they probably do it with someone, you just don’t notice it; because when you talk to your kids, siblings, friends as well as IM and text message constantly eventually the conversations turn pretty non-essential and useless. Just ask the guy at the grocery store who is having the life altering phone conversation with his wife about which cereal to buy–what exactly will happen if he chooses the wrong one!?</p>
<p>Why exactly does Dell need to be selling desktops for $500?! I’d rather pay 2-3 times that knowing that the quality and service will be good and the machine will last for yrs. Rather than paying $500 and then getting service from some guy halfway around the world who is overwhelmingly polite but doesn’t speak fluent enough English to understand what it is I want. Don’t give me those arguments about ‘every kid needs a computer and home and school to succeed in this world’ because from what I’ve seen, elementary school kids can type well, surf the net, and play games, but give them a piece of paper and ask them to do some long division, and they struggle. We’ve focused so much on making technology available at whatever cost, even outsourcing so people lose jobs here, that we don’t care whether its a good investment or not.</p>
<p>Why do we need to shift manufacturing out of the nation so we can have such cheap goods here? Its because we’ve been spoiled. People have become used to the idea that everytime they go to the mall, they’ll buy a shirt because an average department store shirt only costs $20; if it was made here, it may cost $50 and then they couldn’t buy 2 every month, whatever would they do!? Whatever would they do if they couldn’t afford to give their kids 10 presents each under the Christmas tree and their kids only had to settle for 3!?</p>
<p>I know this has come out pretty sarcastic and I’m not taking it out on YOU. I’m unhappy with the situation. Though I have no family members in the manufacturing, cell phone, computing etc. industries, I would deal with higher prices if it was better for the people in our country. I can’t stand how spoil and materialistic people have become, this is what has led to outsourcing–demand for cheap goods, so everyone can consume them in excess, even though life was just fine without them. And in case you’re wondering, this is coming from a fairly young person who was born in the 80s.</p>
<p>aj725, i am sorry, but that’s not logical to me.
outsourcing is NOT led by “spoiled americans”
outsourcing(therefore low price everything) spoiled American.
and outsourcing is led by companies which want to top other with prices.</p>
<p>Yet, it’s very very very illogical to say “let’s go back”.
there is no going back. it’s 21st century. Amerca has to face it, not running away from it.
every cellphones in everyones ears (although i’ve never had one)
every computer in every desk in the world.
that’s 21st century and that’s where the world’s heading to.</p>
<p>And it’s very trivial, but dell makes decent computers. and it wasnt dell, but i talked to some indian customer service representatives and they did understand very well and it was very helpful. (gotta say a lot better than American government phone service and collegeboard representatives which I usualy had to wait 10-30 minutes for really crappy and rude services) </p>
<p>What do i think about outsourcing?
I do not think there is a solution to take back those jobs.
No American will work for $3.25/hr (or even less)
And i believe that kind of approach is very dangerous and never work and … stupid.</p>
<p>Sony and Hyundai Electronics does most of their manufacturing at China, Taiwan, and so on except brains such as essential chips. They hold their name and despite all counterfeits, people still love and buy their products. I would not say or judge what that is or any further analysize work, but America’s better off with such a path rather than going BACK to 80’s.</p>
<p>I hope people see what I am talking about.
(and I am very sad that some people think computer should be 2000 dollars and cellphone companies shall charge us 200 dollars a month. Those people who’d say these have never been in poverty. And after all who does care about low income family and children, right?)</p>
<p>outsourcing is NOT led by “spoiled americans”
outsourcing(therefore low price everything) spoiled American.
and outsourcing is led by companies which want to top other with prices.</p>
<p>Outsourcing is led by consumers because it was consumers who started flocking to cheaper goods when the first few dribbled into the market, thinking, who cares if a few americans lost jobs at a plant in iowa, I can get this appliance for 1/2 the price. Because of this initial demand, companies looked down the line and said ‘this is what works, people want cheap stuff, they don’t care about any other costs.’ Thus, it was a race to outsource to remain competitive, the supply of cheap stuff rose, and the cycle perpetuated to the point where so many jobs are being outsourced in both the manufacturing and service industries. </p>
<p>I do not think there is a solution to take back those jobs. No American will work for $3.25/hr (or even less).</p>
<p>Do they not have a minimum wage where you live? Or labor unions? Taking back jobs wont happen without govt involvement, but it can happen. Even tax incentives to diminish off shore income can make it happen to some degree.</p>
<p>I am very sad that some people think computer should be 2000 dollars and cellphone companies shall charge us 200 dollars a month. Those people who’d say these have never been in poverty. And after all who does care about low income family and children, right?</p>
<p>Because those are the first 2 things that low income families need, computers and cell phones; we all know the world never worked without those things. Im less concerned about everybody, ages 1-100 having a cell phone and computer, than I am about a 50 yr old who lost his customer service job because it was outsourced and has no other training and cant easily move into another industry or another geographical area. Sure he can sit home and play with his cell phone and computer now, but what does one propose he do for income?</p>
<p>I am very sorry about your previous job and unemployment.</p>
<p>However, I do need to make couple points.
First this is a law of the market with a few exceptions, that lower price, more demands. It’s not spoiled Americans it’s how animals do stuff.</p>
<p>Where I live does have a minimum wage and labor unions; I live in Florida, United States of America.
And in fact, there are many countries where those things are non-exsited or very low (and sometime they can sustain, say, normal lives with a lot less $$ than Americans.)</p>
<p>Oh a government gotta be out of ITS business (economically and politically) if they starts to give THAT huge incentives to bring back those jobs. And even though they can do that, it will be only a temporarily bandage.</p>
<p>Lastly, my remark about computer and cell and who cares about poors were intended to give another perspective. Those outsourcing is not only limited to electronics and services. Although electronics and such fields are being outsourced recently, have you noticed toys, t-shirts, and all other kinds of products are “MADE IN CHINA” or so?
(and still low income family members, in my opinion, have all rights to own cellphones and computers. and I think nowadays computers are almost a must for high schools, if not middle schools. After all, I do not want to see only few rich people have computers and enjoying all advanced technologies)</p>
<p>My point is NOT it’s alright or it’s good. And perhaps I, a high school student waiting for a college acceptance, can not say anything about this subject since i’ve never been unemployed and really felt an economic decline due to ourcoursing.
It is a sad and unfortunate trend, but we can not just GO BACK to 80s. (It’s just not possible. And even tough a government forces that, it will be only for a short period of time anyway. Government can not change how human beings think and what they want to buy. Are everything in your house made in America?)
As I said before, America has to find a new way to escape this situation.</p>
<p>*In a way, I extended a meaning of outsourcing into importing. And perhaps indian(and whatever other countries’) customer service representatives are “an import of human resources” (at a bargain price) And I dont think there is a fine line between outsourcing and importing anyway.</p>
<p>I agree with AJ.</p>
<p>When i first got the internet in 1995, we paid about 2100 for the computer, 500 for the monitor, and about 400 for the printer. we paid 15 dollars a month (i believe) for 10 hours on AOL. if you went over your hours, you got charged like 3 dollars per hour. we were allowed to go on the internet to look things up for school, but honestly, you don’t need unlimited hours per month. we functioned perfectly fine. the only people who had computers were the ones that could afford to spend 3000 on one. slowly costs fell (they always do on electronics) and they soon were offering 20 online hours for 20 dollars. soon it was unlimited hours for 20 dollars. it was around 1998 when places such as best buy started offering computers for free if people signed up for 3 years of unlimited internet when every jane doe started owning a computer. that’s not the 80’s. that’s ten years ago. and let me just add, when we had problems with that computer, we called up and someone that spoke clean english helped us out. they came to our house, and replaced our hard drive. now that’s good support. no “mail the computer in to us” (ahem dell). when our fax machine broke at work last month we were in an online help session with a technical support guy from HP, and his english was less than acceptable. his sentences, while you could understand them (to an extent), were poorly structured and it was hard to grasp exactly what he was saying. and to the kids in high school/middle school - you don’t need the internet go do research. Go to the library. All the Internet does is put everything at your fingertips so you don’t have to work for it. </p>
<p>same thing goes for cell phones. my dads first cell phone came with 10 minutes per month…and cost 10 dollars/month. that’s right, 10 minutes. if he went over it was like 1 dollar per minute. the phone was strictly for emergency use… he drives an hour and 15 minutes each way to get to work, and if he got a flat tire or was in an accident we would have no clue what happened… which is why he got a cell phone. last time i checked our family plan cell phone was 80 dollars per month with 4 phones, 500 weekly minutes, and unlimited nights and weekends. that averages out to 20/month for 125 weekly minutes and unlimited nights and weekends. we’ve spoiled ourselves. the cell phone thing was just like five years ago.</p>
<p>as for clothing, i mentioned above harley davidson. let me check the tag on the harley shirt i’m wearing now. oh it says made in Waukesha, WI… (that’s in america if you don’t know your state abbreviations). so let’s see… we have an american company, with goods made in america, and their merchandise is made in america too. What? it’s $20 a t-shirt? that’s not just because it’s harley… that’s because it’s american made. you got it, things are more expensive here. </p>
<p>i had to laugh about what you said about kids not knowing how to divide - because it’s true. some of them can’t even tell time. i knew a 16 year old kid that could only tell time on a digital watch. When i took calculus in high school, we weren’t allowed to use calculators. we had to do everything by hand. imagine that… </p>
<p>we can’t go back to what we had before, we can try… and make some changes, but things will never be the same. we’ve spoiled ourselves.</p>
<p>Do you think banning US firms from outsourcing is a feasible solution? Or enacting legislation that gives tax benefits to companies that do not oursource?</p>
<p>I think that would just be pure hypocrisy on part of the US. America has reaped the benefits of globalization for decades… and now that we’ve entered an era where global trade in services is possible to the extent today, you can’t just say that it is unacceptable.</p>
<p>Globalization has to be accepted for what it is. I can only imagine the heartburn it causes for US workers to lose work to people in foreign countries but it is my belief that in the long term this can only lead to a more economically unified world.</p>
<p>when my moms company moved away from here, she lost her job, as well as a lot of other people (obviously)… some of them still aren’t back working, because there’s just no jobs for them… my mom spent an entire year working part time 20hr/week because the place she got a job at couldnt afford to give her any more hours… if we continue to ship all of our jobs to other countries, what will be left here? Even my old chevy was made in canada.</p>
<p>To me, AJ and fendergirl, what you guys are talking about only seems to be good in writing or perhaps draw sympathy.
I know Americans are spoiled. So what is up and what is next?
(fyi, my parents work long hours as janitors competiting with illegal immigrants and whatnot)</p>
<p>Whatever spoiled whoever. (which is only point in your reply, fendergirl)
(Even tough I still believe that this going after cheap is just how it is since adam ate the apple. It’s not a sudden or unique characteristic Americans have. And of course free markets follow what consumers want. And… again and, America is up right there for free markets, free trade, globalization, and all that jazz)
As I already mentioned, there is no way a government can suddenly change how Americans live, think, and buy.
(and What are you trying to say by HD t-shirts? if it’s merely stating Americans make good stuffs with competitive price, good for America.)</p>
<p>So are you ready to let yourself have only 10 min and spend 4000 dollars on your computer? Furthermore wouldnt you give your children computers and a color cellphone (if not a camera phone 
with unlimited-weekend??
Gandhi said “You must be the change you wish to see in the world.”</p>
<p>Again what I am trying to say is merely saying “oh man it was good back in 90s or 80s” are meaningless. and of course it’s not feasible to go back to those “old good days”</p>
<p>I concur with astrix and think America would gain more than lose from this globalization after all.</p>
<p>Thank you fendergirl. We all survived with 1 expensive computer for the whole family with a few hrs of AOL and 1 cell phone for the parent driving hours to work in case they had an emergency. Life was just fine when we were expected to do our HW using library books with 15 minutes of extra online research and do our math problems without calculators [i actually remember this being a rule]. And this wasn’t decades ago–I graduated HS at the end of the 90s.</p>
<p>The ‘kids cannot survive with technology these days’ argument doesn’t hold. Sure these kids can surf the net with the best of them but they seriously cannot do long division (or apparently tell time!?) because of all the cheap electronic equipment they’ve become used to. High schoolers/college students spend more time making their papers and presentations look pretty than thinking about the actual content. Is this a good investment in the future? Is this a good reason to outsource jobs, so that we can have superfluous technology that is giving kids fewer skills?</p>
<p>All of this stuff can be changed, people just don’t want it to change because most of them aren’t personally affected. How to change it on the consumer level? Reduce demand for the cheap goods–lack of demand will diminish supply and keep the prices high. Thus, the people who are willing to buy those imported digital cameras will pay a high price for them and get great quality and service; which is absolutely fine if they choose to do so, but then you know they’d only be buying 1 for the family. At least that wouldn’t drive Eastman Kodak into the ground (or not at the same rate as now) when the market continues to be flooded with cheaper and cheaper digital cameras because apparently every person in the country above the age of 5 demands (and is furnished with) his very own. </p>
<p>I’m still a student and haven’t been unemployed or affected by outsourcing, nor do I have family members in any of the easily outsourceable jobs. But its sad to see whats happened to the nation and to individual families in the name of technology and progress.</p>
<p>Sure we gained from globalization before, but someone explain what exactly we’re gaining now, besides cheap stuff that we lived without before. And if we aren’t gaining anything, why exactly can’t we pull back in this free market system…besides the hypocrisy argument, because plenty of things are done and accepted politically which are hypocrisy.</p>
<p>My h’s company was about to outsource some of their computer helpdesk support to India when they discovered, at the last minute, that if there was a security breach in India, and someone there accessed personal information about the US employees, the legal system in India did not allow for the same prosecution of criminal activity such as this. I may not be explaining this well, but what I am trying to say is that the ability of the company here in the US to do anything to or about criminal activity involving breach of security there was limited. This is particularly disturbing in light of the fact that our illustrious Internal Revenue Service was going to outsource some tax review work to accountants or auditors in India. I am not sure, if the legal system and prosecutorial options are limited, that I want all of my tax stuff, SSN’s etc over in India. Does anyone know if the IRS has already outsourced this work to India? </p>
<p>Lastly, I do find it “funny”, that if I call, say American Express, or to check on the status of a rebate, I get someone who clearly has a middle/far eastern accent, yet they invariably introduce themselves with a generic “American” name “Sally, John”, etc. If you ask them where you are calling, they say they can’t tell you, for security purposes. What do they think I am going to do?? Fly over and come find them?? If I call my cellphone company, they will always tell me if I have reached their Calif, Fla, NC, etc office (with the name of the city as well), but if I call overseas, they can’t disclose their location. Puleeze. </p>
<p>Oh, and one last thing-- my h’s company required the domestic employees to train the people overseas (the jobs went to Indonesia) who were going to be taking their jobs. Not a good plan. I am surprised that there weren’t a bunch of disgruntled employees who purposely trained their replacements incorrectly. Well… maybe there were and maybe they did. The stock price hasn’t been so good for a while…</p>
<p>my husbands company outsources/subcontracts out work - however this costs money in long run as the other companies do not have the skills and the main company is forced to make the part over. This of course costs time & money.
I don’t have a cellphone but when I get one it is with a company who has their customer service center about 10 miles away.
I agree that other countries often have lower costs to operate factories, but money going to CEOs and stockholders hasn’t dropped. Ineed that seems to the reason for outsourcing- it isn’t that they were paying their US workers so much- but rather the top end of the business was so expensive</p>
<p>aj, I’m having a difficult time understanding the point of your argument. You seem to be saying that people are spoiled, and that is the reason for outsourcing. We should be satisfied with less, and if we were, we’d be willing to pay more for less.</p>
<p>I completely agree with you about people being spoiled. I have had the same cell phone for about 7 years now, as you can imagine, it is large and clunky. I use it for emergencies only, and I pay $7.50/month for it. I have also had the same computer for about 5 years now, which is ancient in the computer world. When my monitor went dead, I bought a used replacement for $50. Yes, it’s huge, but it works.</p>
<p>I just don’t think the problem is limited to cheap goods. Many hospitals now outsource reading x-rays, for example – would people be willing or even able to spend more for medical care? Outsourcing may have begun with customer service reps, but it’s spreading to much more than that. In fact, people are even travelling to India for heart surgery, because they can have it done well and much more cheaply there. Should that be prohibited? After all, they’re taking $$ away from doctors and nurses and hospitals here.</p>
<p>Some responses to other things people have said – I agree with whoever mentioned the hypocrisy (I’m never sure if I’m spelling that word right…). And I don’t know if the IRS is outsourcing tax work, but that is one thing that John Kerry’s platform would have prevented (as well as prohibiting government contractors from outsourcing jobs). And I’m not sure why it bothers jym that someone with a “middle/far eastern” accent (not sure what you mean by that, btw, since the first paragraph of your message refers to workers in India, which is neither the middle or the far east, but anyway…) has a “Western” name (so if I’m American, I should only give my children “generic” American names?), or even that they won’t disclose their location. Why exactly do you need to know?</p>
<p>"(and What are you trying to say by HD t-shirts? if it’s merely stating Americans make good stuffs with competitive price, good for America.)</p>
<p>So are you ready to let yourself have only 10 min and spend 4000 dollars on your computer? Furthermore wouldnt you give your children computers and a color cellphone (if not a camera phone with unlimited-weekend??
Gandhi said “You must be the change you wish to see in the world.”
"
i was saying that HD is an AMERICAN product, and that all of what they sell are AMERICAN products… and people are loyal to that fact. if they start outsourcing construction of their motorcycles, there goes the company. </p>
<p>and yeah, i wouldn’t mind only having 10 minutes on the internet. if i want to look something up, I go to the library. If i want to talk to someone, i either call them or go to their house. Would you? And I also wouldn’t mind spending 4000 dollars on a computer… they aren’t necessities… and i’m only 22. and, i was NEVER given a computer. i’ve had 1…2…3…4 computers in my life… and i have paid for every single one of them. one i got in 9th grade, one i got the summer after 10th (one of those sign up for 3 years internet get a free computer deals), one i got when i went to college, and i got a laptop last year). Have you paid for your computer? They aren’t cheap. (Cheaper than they used to be… yes… but cheap, no.) AND nobody i know has “given” their children a cell phone. I’ve paid for my phones, i’ve paid my monthly fees… etc. my sister and cousin that live with me also pay for theirs, and all of my friends at school pay for theirs. Why should your parents pay for your cell phone? it’s YOURS. i’m very old school in that i believe in buying my own things, with my own money, and it really bugs me to see kids these days walking around with cell phones that their parents pay for, and driving nice fancy new cars that were presents, and stuff like that. It’s called get a job and appreciate the value of money. (that wasn’t directed towards you duh, just towards kids in general)</p>
<p>oh… gosh this topic became “oh-Americans-r-spoiled” thread.</p>
<p>Well fendergirl, good for you having HD and buying all stuffs by yourself and blah.</p>
<p>just as the last time, as rhonda63 said, aj and fendergirl, I DONT GET YOUR POINTS</p>
<p>YES, let’s go back to 80s and let’s all smoke all kinda chemicals in a basement. Yeah RIGHT.</p>
<p>(i read that it wasnt directed towards me, fendergirl. bTw fyi, as i said early, my parents are janitor who works for so little because of immigrants and so on. i bought my 1000 dollars macintosh 4-5 years ago; every pennies came from my pocket. and i’ve never had a cell phone. BUT AGAIN, so what about it besides saying i’m not spoilded and many other americans are??)</p>
<p>aj and fendergirl, i think outsourcing would exist even if the US wasn’t the consumerist nation it is. where costs can be cut, they will be cut.</p>
<p>the UK outsources work as well. i don’t know about how consumerist a nation the UK is…</p>
<p>i’m as incredulous as duh about america going back to the 80’s, one computer for every home, less cars for everyone, less cellphones… you can’t stop economic growth in its tracks. and trying to reverse it? the consequences would be far more ominous than those due to outsourcing.</p>