<p>Virtually anyone at any level of education today will tell you such behavior is FAR more common today than it was 20-30 years ago. So yes, the world has changed and does all the time. Not always for the best either.</p>
<p>I teach at a community college, and the ones who sleep in class are NOT awesome students; they come in hungover, sometimes with black eyes, caps on backwards (including girls), no pens, textbook, or notebook, no homework…etc. The ones who actually work or study all night also fight to stay awake, and always do their assignments. I know the difference after 20 years. It’s the ones from the former group who want to repeat classes four times (and I am talking basic skills classes, like paragraph writing) who are a drag on our institution and our society. Yes, there are complex sociological and psychological reasons for their apathy and poor study skills. Many are non-native speakers of English and first-generation college students. But they are in the majority in some states, like California. These are Americans. I just wonder what will happen to them if they can’t pass a basic English or math class.
These are a different group from the overpriviliged ones at Duke or Rice who can’t buy a pair of pants on their own, so their mom has to fly out to take them shopping (true story).
How much of this is due to over- or under-parenting? A lot. A whole lot, IMHO.
Well, good luck to all of them, and I would be so happy if they would just pass English 101 so they could transfer or graduate, yet so few will. I really try to make it happen for them. But when they offer me $500 to pass them, that’s where I draw the line.</p>
<p>Wow, when you’ve reached that level of angry cynicism its time to move on to a different line of work.</p>
<p>timeless - my sentiment exactly. All I can say is that my kid is one of those over privileged ones at Duke or Cornell that still has professors who are happy to teach and still like their students.</p>
<p>I am not an angry cynic. I am very patient and beloved, because I care, I truly do. I teach students whose life stories are unfathomable. I hug my crying students after class whose husbands are dying of cancer and they don’t know how they are going to feed their 4 kids. Yes, I should quit my job. I’m bitter and cynical. My students have no idea what the SAT is, let alone discuss taking it 5 times or whether it is better than the ACT. I am a teacher in the community college trenches, where most of this country’s students start out or end up, with 5 classes of over 30 students who can’t write a paragraph.We have to turn them away in droves, because we don’t have room for all of them. Yes, maybe I should quit, because I feel so sorry for them and not sorry for kids who can’t wake up unless their mother calls them. And yet I am genuinely happy to go to work every day, because I am helping some of them reach their goals, which may not be law school, but they might get into the nursing program or transfer- who knows, maybe to Duke!
I am sure the teachers at Duke love their students and just love teaching. It is an elite, highly selective institution, where all the students are above average For $51,000 a year, you should expect fantastic professors who are totally non-cynical.
My point? Parents should raise their kids to be independent, responsible and self-sufficient, so their college professor doesn’t have to ask them why they come to class 30 minutes late with the latest 4g cell phone but without a writing implement, textbook or piece of paper.
What I need to do is get of CC. Goodnight!</p>
<p>^Your frustration is understood, and your experiences are unfortunately more widespread than most people want to believe. My daughter spent a year at a community college and every class was divided in just the way you have mentioned. </p>
<p>I hope you had a good nights sleep.</p>
<p>There is no doubt that teaching is a difficult job. Working with kids can make you want to tear your hair out sometimes. Not every student can be reached by every teacher but labeling them (lazy, spoiled, stupid) means that we have stopped trying. As students, not all of us got it right the first time; some of us needed a second (third or fourth) chance to get it right. Sometimes the difference is time, maturity and someone willing to see the spark in us that we couldn’t find in ourselves. We are all unfinished products. We are all gods children.</p>
<p>I applaud that you are doing good things under very difficult conditions. However, labels are destructive and counter productive. Kids/students are quick to sense anger/cynicism/resentment in the classroom and react instinctively against it.</p>
<p>First. these are not kids, they are adults. Some are in their 70s. But most of the ones who are unsuccessful students are young. Believe me, my older female students, like my 70-something Korean grandma, are dreams. Second, I don’t label them. These are behaviors I am describing, not labels. And I don’t think the taxpayer wants to keep paying for them to repeat classes until they grow up. It’s a college classroom, after all.</p>
<p>There is some truth to what you say timeless, but there are many young people heading out to college who are not ready. College has become the next step for many that are not prepared…they may be educationally prepared but they are not prepared to deal with the day to day responsibilities because they have not been given much responsibility except to “get good grades” and “participate in ECs” while parents “smooth” the path for them with teachers, coaches, bosses etc., ride herd on them while they do homework and keep track of things so that they can focus on what the parents deem important. Add that to the kids that “go wild”, the kids that have issues and the ones need remedial coursework and you’ve got quite the variety of kids that colleges deal with that may not have been there three or four decades ago. </p>
<p>It is my opinion that it is a good thing that so many kids have the opportunity to go to college but it also puts more pressure on the K-12 system and yes, the parents, to raise kids that are ready to go off and live on their own. Decades ago my parents kept my brilliant, top of the class sibling home and going to CC for two years because they felt the sib was not “grown up” enough to withstand the pressures of living away. It would be extremely difficult for many of today’s “parents” to admit they had someone who was highly intelligent, top of the class but socially and personally not prepared and make that kind of decision to keep them home.</p>
<p>Fortunately the system allows for time to mature with multiple chances and weeds out those that “aren’t ready” although it can be financially costly to the parents.</p>
<p>This is also vastly different from parents who can’t let go which I suspect is a media enhanced phenomenon. Most of us are pretty happy when the offspring start leaving the nest.</p>
<p>Hmm…I really enjoyed the Wake Forest article and don’t see anything too controversial in it. What I got from it is to let our college students try to solve their problems on their own first before we swoop in to save the day and to let them make their own decisions - even if we think they are making a mistake. As long as it is not a life-or-death situation - that makes good sense to me. I thought there was a lot of truth in the part about parents today wanting to smooth out all of the bumps in the road for our kids - which is well-meaning - but we are depriving them of the opportunity to experience frustration/failure and also to experience satisfaction when they fix the situation themselves. I know I am guilty of this at times and I really found the article to be a good reminder that the goal of parenting is to raise self-sufficient mature young adults. Sometimes we have to step back so that our kids can step forward.</p>
<p>^^^I agree, rockvillemom, and I’m surprised that parents would find much to criticize in the article. Don’t we want our kids(young adults, actually) to become independent?</p>