<p>My S is just going into high school and I have discovered this site and will be looking on for info as he approaches decisions about college. But there is one thing I have long been interested in and am wondering about, and would like to get other parents take on. Is success in science and math overated and overemphasized in school. S’s strenghts are defintely humanaities/arts, and he is weakest in math. </p>
<p>Why is it that no one thinks kids are “smart” unless they are tops in science or taking calculus in the 10th grade? Why are so many schools and programs these days emphasizing science/math and so few arts/humanities? Evne when I was in school, it was lawyas the scine/nath kids that were held up as examples as the smart ones, never the history/english kids. I guess ever since Sputnik, the nation has decided that we need scientists and not poets, and that feeling has ever been reinforced. We compare US kids math scores to what they get in Singapore, but I’ve never seen anybody worry about advanced literacy and advanced, well, serious nonscientific thinking. </p>
<p>Just wondering what the emphasis means for my S as he starts HS. PErsonally, I have encouraged him to focus like a laser on what he’s good at. He loves history, english, photography, even philosophy–which his teachers had to give him texts on because he was curious about aesthetics. Better to be outstanding in one thing, I tell him, than drive yourself crazy because you get C’s in math. Am I wrong? Or is a kid who doesn’t give a damn about math doomed when it comes to getting into dcollege?</p>
<p>What state are you in? In all likelihood, he is going to HAVE to take some math courses. And if he doesn’t, I’d still advise that he have some exposure, through alg. II and geometry, at least, along the way. </p>
<p>Mathematical literacy is important in getting through modern life. Think about compounded interest, for example. </p>
<p>Also: science. He’s walking around in a major biology lab. If he is going to make intelligent choices when it comes to medical issues for himself and his family, he should know something about biology. If he is going to be able to understand many of the issues of the day and those coming in the future (stem cells, global warming…) he needs a degree of scientific literacy.</p>
<p>None of this is meant to down play the value of other types of knowledge and talents. I just mean to point out that knowledge of math and science has intrinsic value.</p>
<p>And this is not even taking into account the expectations of colleges and universities. </p>
<p>I’ll let someone else address that. This preaching is wearing me out!</p>
<p>Disclaimer- my kids have math disabilities- as do I
However- we all love science & higher level math ( from what I hear ) is much more interesting( and is learned differently) than basic stuff used in most middle schools.
I think social science people can be brilliant certainly-
but I would also note that math is used in every discipline as far as I can tell.
I am not for kids limiting their preparation.</p>
<p>My oldest for example- in high school, planned to attend an art school
She had always been a very good writer- and artist-and math was difficult.
However, she also enjoyed the sciences, and I encouraged her to find a college where both were offered, rather than attending an art school.
She graduated from a very rigourous LAC last year with a biology degree.</p>
<p>Her sister who also has a math disabilty struggles in math, however, she is getting As in chem & knows she will have to continue with calc and ochem to pursue her path. As she gets more exposure to it, she becomes stronger- not everyone is gifted in math, but it can be learned.
I realize that math is one of the weakest areas in many of our K-12 schools, still, I don’t think that running away from it is the answer.</p>
<p>While I agree with your general sentiment of intelligence in the humanities and liberal arts is too often overlooked, I consider it a mistake to “encourage him to focus like a laser on what he’s good at” to the detriment of developing math and science skills to an appreciable degree. High school is too early to be specializing (that’s what college, or even grad school is for), and children should be learning all aspects the curriculum, whether they are strong in a particular field or not.</p>
<p>Besides, what type of lesson does this teach a kid, morally speaking? “That’s ok, son, math [or english, whatever] doesn’t matter, and you don’t have to worry about that homework.” We all have to do lots of things that we don’t like or aren’t good at later in life - sometimes you just have to suck it up and complete the task.</p>
<p>Yes, some folks that I know have suggested that 1) math is indeed different and maybe easier in HS than middle school because it is more conceptual and less rote memory (S still counts on his fingers if he thinks no one is looking and hasn’t quite memorized the times tables) 2) that he indeed might like logic puzzles and knot theory (I’ve yet to find out what it is) a lot more than algebra, and 3) he get a tutor – though he has gotten plenty extra help form teachers after or before school. I guess I’ll try all three. </p>
<p>yes, he was tested for learning disabilites and schools said no IEP special ed or special services because his low math scores were basically not low enough. just low enough to frustrate the hell out of all of us!</p>
<p>whatever is going on, his math weakness has almost–but not quite–totally demoralized him academically, and I hope the focus on what he is good at will help ease that. its only through the help of some extraordinary english/history teachers that challnged him and gave him extra work that his self-confidence is not at a total low point.</p>
<p>The problem with writing off math is that you close your doors to so many professions. That said, the most brilliant people I’ve been around, I knew were brilliant because they were verbally brilliant. The brilliant math and science guys tended to sit in the corners. He’ll get his day to shine.</p>
<p>Yes. Mathmom^^^-absolutley. Add to the mix superior analytical ability so the verbally briliant have something substantive about which to be briliant, and you have an unbeatable combination.</p>
<p>“Add to the mix superior analytical ability so the verbally briliant have something substantive about which to be briliant, and you have an unbeatable combination.”</p>
<p>Yes. And the verbally brilliant MINUS superior analytical ability equals…big bag of wind.</p>
<p>One reason many students struggle with math is that many K-6 teachers have minimal training in mathematics. Many (if not most) K-6 teachers are education majors or, at best, major in English or History. This does not make for bad teachers, per se, but does limit many teacher’s ability to inspire a genuine love for math or find alternative strategies for stuggling students to understand concepts. In addition, the recent emphasis in states like NY for students to “write” how they would solve a problem (over actually solving it) has taken away from old-time focus on drilling. It’s not unusual that many students do not know their times tables. My kids spent maybe 2 weeks on that in 2nd grade. I remember spending months on it when I was a kid. I wouldn’t give up on math in HS - I’d find great teachers or tutors and try to open a few windows into the subject area. There’s no reason any kids should be math phobic.</p>
<p>thanks all for the input. I too think he will shine someday. I am worried, not pessimistic. He’s no Einstein, but the kid is far form the dimmest bulb in the chandelier either.</p>
<p>I also worry that he will be limiting his options later on in life without enough math and have told him that, but its not getting through. Perhaps just an adolescent rebeliousness at work. You know, the teenage thing–if Mom and Dad say its important, then it can’t possibly be!</p>
<p>Just to clarify though, I want himt him to be good at it. I just think of a phrase that someone mentioned to me about what bicylce racers do : train your weakness and race your strength. I fear that too much emphasis in school gets put on the former and too little on the latter.</p>
<p>And since I just tarted this thing, what makes the little Post #s change?</p>
<p>A friend’s S is not gifted in math, but he always did fine if he had a good teacher and IF he had math first thing in the morning. Afternoon math classes brought his grade down almost a full letter. You might investigate your son’s learning style and body clock issues and find a way to make it a bit easier. My take on it is that for some people math is intuitive, they just need to be told the rules, and for others…they have to be carefully taught. It would be nice if the two types were taught in different classes! We all have our talents and abilities.</p>
<p>I would say if your son is entering HS and still has trouble with times tables, get a tutor, stat! If he’s up to speed on the basics, math may not seem so daunting. If not, well, it’s cumulative, as I always told my kids about languages as well. It just gets harder and harder.</p>
<p>But I agree some people are naturally good at some subjects & not others, and there is much to be said for following your bliss. I was a musician through and through, loved humanities, liked Alg & Geometry, but didn’t see the point of Trig! Maybe if I had a better teacher or different method things would have been different. Glad I was born before Calculus was invented. ;)</p>
<p>I would point out that Statistics is another example of math necessary for all disciplines in higher ed these days. Likewise fluency in computers.</p>
<p>My younger son always had trouble with times tables, but he does pretty well with high school math. I wasn’t too surprised that it finally clicked, an IQ test back in elementary school (looking to identify possible LDs) had shown high ability in math which had yet to be manifested in classroom performance. He’ll probably never be top notch in math because arithmetic is not his friend, and he’s a bit slow, but he gets B+s in the honors class. With any luck your son may have the same experience.</p>
<p>Two daughters, one a math/science type student and the other an English/history type student. When in high school both daughters were encouraged and expected to take math through calculus, four years of science and honors/AP English. I figured math/science daughter needs to learn to reading and writing skills as well as appreciation for literature and arts. English/history daughter needs a background in math and science to understand complex issues in modern society. </p>
<p>English/history daughter is now in college. She sometimes laments that the engineering students and premeds are regarded as the smart students while English majors are thought of as light-weights. I honestly believe she could make it as an engineering or science major, albiet with much less steller grades. But would she be happy designing bridges or working in a lab? I don’t think so. </p>
<p>I remind my daughter that we all have unique talents. Intelligence comes in many packages. And the world needs all types.</p>
<p>Another reason why people suddenly go math-braindead in high school is because that is when math becomes more conceptual/analytical and less memorization. Conversely, my son does not memorize well but is very good at conceptual thinking, puzzles, directions, etc. He did OK in math up until junior high (mostly bored with learning math facts), but his performance skyrocketed when he got into geometry and calculus.</p>
<p>Back to one of the original questions regarding the apparently lop-sided recognition of math smarts–an obvious answer, but one we have yet to state: Excellence in math is much easier to quantify than excellence in any of the humanities.</p>
<p>People who are skilled in math or science are more highly prized in the job marketplace than those skilled in the humanities. Unfortunately, many people who would be good math and science teachers can make more money in private industry than in the classroom.</p>
<p>Math is the subject that seems to create more anxiety than any other. HS students (or their parents) rountinely hold themselves back from progressing “too fast” and risking the possibility of taking a hit on their GPA if they can’t ace the higher math class.</p>
<p>People assume that math is only something you can do if you have a lot of innate ability. Well some helps, but really putting a lot of effort in it has more to do with success. No intention of stereotyping, but it’s no mystery why so many Asian-American kids are among the top math students? Their culture and parents stress preparation in schoolwork.</p>
) is much more interesting( and is learned differently) than basic stuff used in most middle schools.