<p>Dear CCD: I don’t have any realm, just a thread that I started where I (and others) post I(opinions, information and questions).</p>
<p>But you raise a valid point. There are patent attorneys who, after having gone through law school, find themselves carrying out practice solely before the USPTO. Some do it out of choice, being more interested in the science and technology aspects of patent practice, some wind up there for lack of a better alternative. Law firms tend to compartmentalize attorneys, some firms more than others, and the larger firms (including larger IP firms) do it more than the smaller ones. Some patent attorneys are able to become litigators, if they want to, others aren’t. </p>
<p>However, even those who practice only patent prosecution still have use for their law school training. Taking an appeal in the USPTO requires some legal acumen; only very experienced patent agents do that well. Presentation of declarations to the USPTO requires knowledge of the rules of evidence if they are going to be effective. And a patent agent can never be a partner in the law firm.</p>
<p>Both of you have been real helpful providing the inside scoop. Concerndad: If your last reply represents what you hate (dealing with obnoxious, rude and nasty opposing counsel and the drivel they say and write), dadofsam really doesn’t sound that bad The argument actually brought up some good points and perspectives, so keep going at each other please.</p>
<p>I understand practicing law is a big commitment and it leaves no room for anything else (engineering etc.). What would be a good place to “test drive” the various aspects of lawyering (and would probably look handsome in law school applications)? What is that get you interested in IP law in the first place? I know the hook I took was the pay check, and that’s what motivated me to look into other aspects of the career. I actually have room in my schedule to elect a Communication Law course at school for next semester (even though I don’t need it anymore for grad), I suppose that’d be a good for sampling?</p>
<p>EasyDriverThrewLife: Looks like you are an undergrad. Assuming so … If you think you have any interest in a field of law, take a school course in that. For IP law, it’s patent, trademark and copyright (inventions, books, marketing). TM and C are often in the same course. Most colleges offer something as an interdisciplinary course in a sicnece department so that a science grad will know the difference among the IP rights that can be obtained. Law schools will certainly offer such courses. If you have no science degree, forget about patent law, as you need a science degree to make any headway in patent law. You can also get a part-time or summer job at a law firm. Now-a-days, you might only get such a job without a salary. Communications law seems to me to have nothing to do with IP law, which is not to say that it is not a good field to get into. At BigLawFirm where I worked once, they only hired as paralegals who has college degrees and who expressed a degree to go to law school. I have know kids that have been paralegals in law firms ant that helped them decide about law school, yes or no. You see a bit what being a lawyer is like and you get some money, too, for future tuition, or to pay back loans. It will also help you in getting into law school since it will show that you really thought about your goals.</p>
<p>Why IP law for me? Well, when I was finishing up law school, the economy was much as it is now. I had a science degree, but not the most marketable science degree. I did get an interview from an undergrad alum at a patent firm, where he told me that, and suggested I get another science degree. I did just that, and got job offers galore, at a good starting salary. I think the most important aspect of lawyering is to be able to write well. Do what you can to get experience in writing, evnthough it might be painful.</p>
<p>Drivethru: CD is pretty much on point. Remember, however, that at this time even IP firms have had layoffs, including paralegals, so that getting your foot in the door won’t be as easy as it used to be. Usually there is more demand among relatively untrained applicants for litigation paralegals than other types. Perhaps things will have improved by the time you graduate.</p>
<p>I entered the field for reasons similar to CD, though at an earlier time, when the economy was doing well. I went to law school in the evening and was able to get a job doing legal research and other tasks at a patent law firm during the days, which made me familiar with the subject areas. I obtained a job as a patent attorney with a major engineering company several months after graduation, and went on from there. There are many pathways into this field.</p>
<p>Dear dads,
Thank you so much for your very informative posts… I’ve got a couple a questions myself that probably haven’t been discussed…
I have a BS in civil engineering and will be graduating with an MSCE this june (hopefully if things go well since I work full time), and God willing I will have my professional engineering license by next year. I have about 4 years of experience in design (plans and specifications/contracts) of various infrastructure projects.</p>
<ol>
<li>Would my background put me at disadvantage seeing I don’t have an EE, ME or ChE degree or work experience? </li>
<li>What other areas of law can I fall back to? </li>
<li>The school that I’m interested that offers a pt program in LA is loyola. Would it matter if I go to a low rank part time program as opposed to higher rank? if not how marketable or competitive would I be?</li>
</ol>
<p>A degree in Civil Enginneering will be sufficient for you to be eligible to take the US Patent Office examination to become a patent agent or attorney, which will help your marketablility; however, there is not much work in patent prosecution or patent litigation relating to civil engineering technology. So your scientific background will not help you to get a job in the patent law field. That does not mean that you would lnot be perfectly able to hand mechanical patent issues. Certainly, if you are smart enough to get a degree in civil engineering, you should be smart enough to handle patent issues in the mechanical field. Just don’t expect patent-type employers to line up outside your door with your civil engineering degree, especially when there are many EE, ME, Chem., Bio, ChemE, and CS law shool graduates out there.</p>
<p>Generally, the better the law school, the better (aka higher salary) the job offers after law school. By PT, I assume night school? That’s a very hard and a longer road. Good luck to you on that. I hope that you can keep your law school interest over 4 years, it’s hard for the normal 3 years.</p>
<p>It’s not clear why, after going all that way through CE, you now want to become a patent attorney or, for that matter, an attorney in general. Do you dislike engineering? Looking for a better income? Law school and being an attorney are vastly different from engineering classes and being an engineer. Before you undertake the burden (time and money) to go to law achool, you might need to think more about the reasons for doing so.</p>
<p>That being said, I concur with CCD’s comments about CE and patents. You should expect to work in other fields of engineering, possibly including applications of mechanical engineering such as prosthetics and other medical devices.</p>
<p>Other fields of law that you might consider are construction law and related contracts and environmental law.</p>
Yes, night school. My employer is willing to pay for continuing education as long as it’s work related, so I’d like to take advantage of this by either going for a JD or MBA.</p>
<p>
Many reasons actually… FOr one, although I like engineering, I can’t see myself doing engineering for the next 20 or so years.
Two, low salary ceiling; so in that sense, yes, a better income.
Lastly, there is no prestige in civil engineering profession. ALthough some may argue otherwise, lawyers still make more money than civils, and money = prestige (at least in my dictionary… )</p>
<p>
Although we have our legal team to deal with construction litigation, the lawyers sometimes complain that they are overworked but underpaid… So, how’s the pay like in construction and contracts, and env law? </p>
<p>Before enrolling in law school and/or taking the LSAT (required for admission), you should not assume that your employer will consider law school to be work-related. You are speaking about changing professions and careers, not schooling that is related to your current work. Your employer might or might not be interested in paying for your becoming an attorney. You should check that out.</p>
<p>Additionally, you should be aware that going to law school at night is not the same as taking another program at night. Becasue of rules set by state bar associations, evening law students must finish the full law school program in a relatively short period of time, often no more than 5 years, and law schools are not interested in students who don’t want to take what they consider a full load. This means that you typically will be taking 3-4 courses per semester and be in school most weeknights. That leaves weekends and miscellaneous other hours for reading the materials and studying for exams. Evening law school will take up a lot of your time for 4 years or so. It will be a major activity included with working, eating and sleeping.</p>
<p>Attorneys will, in the end, typically earn more than engineers, and will typically earn more (and work harder) in a law firm than working for a company. But nobody makes a lot of money without working hard (and long hours) to earn it. You’ll have to decide what’s most important in your life - money or time to do other things (like family life).</p>
<p>P.S. Everybody complains about being overworked and underpaid (and under-appreciated)</p>
<p>If I decide to pursue a degree in biology, I can place out of my calculus requirement by passing the placement exam (the dean seemed pretty chill about this actually when I told her I had AP Calc BC under my belt) and physics isn’t even required for the biology major (AB)—would I even be allowed to sit for the patent bar if I don’t take any calculus and physics classes?</p>
<p>If you receive a bachelor’s degree with a major in biology, you should have enough college credits to sit for the USPTO examination. Physics is not a specific requirement.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for this thread, I’ve been looking for something like this for awhile. I read the whole thing up to this point, and a lot of questions I had were answered. =D</p>
<p>When you’re not busy, I’d like your opinion. Here’s my story:</p>
<p>I just graduated with a ME degree last year. I didn’t do all that great GPA-wise, but I did well in all of my design/project/lab practical application classes, the classes where I got to work on teams and actually build stuff.</p>
<p>I really like working with people and on teams, and I love writing even more. That’s why i thought being an IP Lawyer would combine the best of both worlds for me. Though I’ll also mention that I’m not the greatest public speaker. I’m fine in conversations, but I’m not sure I’d be comfortable going to court without a significant amount of practice and effort on my part.</p>
<p>I wanted legal experience, so i grabbed the first legal assistant job I could with a trust and estate law office, which I’ve been working at for about six months. I also took the lsat and did well, and I’m doing a patent bar course online right now. I was planning to apply to law school for next year.</p>
<p>1.) Which area of IP law would you see me doing well in? Or have you met any successful IP attorneys with similar backgrounds? </p>
<p>2.) How should I go about getting into the field? Should I apply for a patent assistant opening and switch now? And If I had a decent patent assistant job, should I just work for 2+years to gain experience, or would I be better off jumping straight in to law school?
Or would it be even better to get an engineering job instead and gain experience there before law school? </p>
<p>Sorry for throwing so many questions and alternatives out there, I’ve been thinking about this a lot and I could really use the input!</p>
<p>First of all, public speaking can be learned. Most IP attorneys do not practice in court but work in their offices, whether in companies or law firms. However, you should take lessons in public speaking because at one time or another you will be called on to make presentations to clients or management of your company. If you dont know where to take lessons, try the local Toastmasters Club. That is their purpose.</p>
<p>There are plenty of patent attorneys with backgrounds similar to yours. If you like to write and you like engineering, patent law could be a good fit for you. Just be aware that you wont be doing any more engineering, just writing about it.</p>
<p>Getting into the field is getting to be tough, both because many other people want to get in and because the current economy limits opportunities. So you probably cant be selective how you get in try all of those ways, simultaneously and see which one works.</p>
<p>I think Ive answered all your questions, but if not, or if you have more, post again</p>
<p>I have a B.S. in Aerospace Engineering. Have been working in software development industry for about 7 years now. Just got accepted into a middle tier 2 law school. In your opinion what do you think are the job prospects for someone like me? AE is very similar to ME but not sure if law firms would recognize this. Is there a demand for AE patent attorneys? How about for someone who has a lot of experience in designing software and business applications? Are there IP job prospects for computer geeks? Thank you in advance. All of the posts have been very informative.</p>
<p>dadofsam:
i’m really interested in information security law which while i realize is not the same thing as intellectual property law is somewhat related. i was hoping you could help me with two questions.
since information security law is a rather new field do you know of any law schools with strong programs in it? if not is it likely that those with good programs in intellectual property have good programs in information security?
i’m going to be majoring in international relations at college (GWU). do you think it would be beneficial/a good background for me to also do a second major in computer science or engineering of some sort?</p>
<p>thanks so much for your help! this is a type of law i’ve been interested in for a very long time so it’s great to see someone trying to inspire and help answer questions for those of us interested in it :)</p>
<p>Awkturtle: Sorry but I have insufficient kmowledge to answer your questions. I recommend you post them as new topics on the law school board.</p>
<p>Happyflight: There are some jobs in aerospace IP law but you would be unnecessarily limiting your prospects if you only apply for those jobs. Also, there might not be any (or hardly any) entry-level jobs in that specific field. But if you have enough general mechanical engineering courses you could apply for jobs in that field.</p>
<p>And yes there are jobs for patent attorneys who understand software and can write and prosecute patent applications on that topic. Be aware that you will be competing for such positions with people who have CS degrees, however.</p>
<p>I’m thinking of pursuing an undergraduate degree in either biology, computer science, or a combination thereof. Would either of these two majors have some merit in becoming a patent lawyer? Is one major more useful than the other in the long run? </p>
The argument actually brought up some good points and perspectives, so keep going at each other please.</p>
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