My son is starting HS in the fall, and the school really pushes this C&C program (an Honors-level Paideia-like program which is project-based) instead of regular Honors English/SS.
He is very driven (all comes from him, don’t quite know how it happened, haha) and is worried that he will ruin his college/Ivy chances or something if he picks the wrong one. (The choice is to either take C&C, which is a combo class, or separate Hon English and Social Studies.)
My question is, does it matter? I would think that having straight up Honors English and Honors World History (and, later, AP) would be far superior, but the school insists that the C&C is the superior thing - nearly 3/4 of the students take this instead of the separate classes.
Also, why the heck is the school pushing it so hard? Is it better or actually an inferior choice?
Thanks alll!! He has to pick by tomorrow.
Is there any information on the post-graduation outcomes of students who choose each choice? Or overall? Does making either choice mean committing to that type of curriculum for all four years of high school?
However, if 3/4 of the students take the combined courses, that may be the school’s mainstream choice, though the more traditional separate courses can be more convenient for students transferring in or who expect to transfer out due to impending family moves or some such.
Thanks so, so much for your input!
No, no information on the post-graduation outcomes, unfortunately. (It is a magnet high school and was, at one point, ranked nationally - but I still feel uneasy with the full-court press for this class.)
It’s an honors class, but the grading is group project based, which makes me feel uneasy as well. They even had a presentation trying to convince the incoming freshman to select it, because it was so “awesome.”
I’m pretty sure it’s only offered for 9th and 10th grade, as well.
He won’t be transferring hopefully - but as far as on a transcript, would Hon English/Hon World His look better than this sort of ‘experimental’ class?
My freshman year was set up that way. It can be a lot of fun as the history readings and English readings build on each other. OTOH the group project aspect of it would send me running in the other direction unless they are very, very well directed and done in class under close supervision.
Haha exactly my concern. It’s sort of like one doesn’t have control over his or her grade - seems stressful. Were yours done all in class? I didn’t realize that. Was HW all indiviual(ized), then?
Group projects do run the risk of some members of the group flaking on their work or not doing it to a high standard of quality, requiring the more dedicated students to do all of the work or accept a lower grade. May be reflective of many real-life workplaces, but that would be a harsh lesson to learn during high school with significant consequences down the line in terms of colleges and scholarships.
But do the more traditional courses also have group projects? If so, then that would not be a reason to choose one or the other.
Also, if it is only for 9th or 10th grade, then the effect may not be too great if students in 11th grade from either version can take whatever the most rigorous 11th and 12th grade English and social studies options that are offered.
@ucbalumnus Exactly. The group project aspect may bother me the most.
No, the traditional courses don’t have group projects. Funnily enough, I happened to run into the vice-principal in the hall during a pre-acceptance open house, and just briefly expressed my concerns. Essentially she danced around the issue and assured me that all the students do their work. (Ha!) As an aside, any idea why they’d be so gung-ho about this particular setup?
Agreed to a point about real-life workplaces, but - there the boss or other colleagues can usually see how the wind is blowing. Completely agree about the consequences, especially since 9th graders aren’t nearly as fussed as upperclassmen, and it seems to be once a schedule is in place here - it stays. As does the grade.
I guess what I’m asking is – is there any possible downside, transcript-wise, to just taking the traditional sets?
We had a combined curriculum, but no group projects. My sons also did an interesting science/English combo in middle school. And while not a combo course our high school does American literature and US history junior year and they do them more or less chronologically.
My younger son had a fabulous group project in middle school where small groups put together themed magazines. Students wrote articles by themselves, but they worked together on the themes and putting the magazine together. She had kids write resumes for different positions - arts editor, editor in chief etc and kept an eye on everyone. I think only one kid got fired from the project and was given boring work to do instead.
I’d ask other students if they liked the set up and what sort of group projects there were. I doubt there’s a transcript problem since they are both honors classes. There’s a good chance the better teachers are doing the CC program because it’s usually more enthusiastic teachers that get involved in stuff like that. You’ll really need to ask other parents and teachers what they think - and you’ll probably get lots of conflicting opinions! Good luck on whatever you decide.
Cool @mathmom, that is a wonderful perspective. He is so incredibly excited about this C&C, so perhaps it is just exactly what you’re describing. Motivated teachers are a joy in HS, so that alone could be something to sway it its direction.
C&C Paideia sounds like an interdisciplinary “classical” education project. Have you asked how the content differs (not in terms of approach, but in terms of readings)? These classes tend to have more reading of full texts or original sources rather than textbook excerpts, for instance, tend to include Greek and Roman literature, European Literature, lots of classics, have students reflect on important texts, etc.
College is the wrong thing to worry about. The question that should be asked is what would help his development and learning more?
Adcoms aren’t ignorant naifs.