Parent-Endorsed Skipping

Parents Forum
101

<p>To be honest, when i read the OP I thought it was someone doing it to cause controversy, but I asked some friends of mine at work about this, and they said they had hear/seen similar things, whether it was ‘official’ or not, and I was shocked. While I am not exactly someone against kid missing school for good reasons (music students end up doing this, because of competitions and auditions and such, especially senior year) or if there is some experience they can get that I think is unique, but those should be limited. To allow a kid to duck out because they have not done the work, or not studied or whatever, is to me completely failing as a parent. Besides the obvious things, that it gives the kid the idea they can screw around and not have to worry, it also shows an incredible lack of the point of some of this, that kids are not just learning stuff in school to get good grades and go to harvard, but that they are there to learn discipline and skills to be able to do things, and part of that, something too many parents are afraid of, is occassionally landing flat on their back and having to pick themselves up. The whole mentality that the goal is to do anything to get a kid into a top school is what also leads to other problems, like cheating and other attempts to game things, it gives the impression that anything is fair game as long as they get the good grades and get into a top school…which in the end is going to hurt the kids, when they get out into the real world those kinds of do-overs are generally not acceptable (well, okay, except maybe among the CEO class of things, but that is a different story)…</p>

<p>For the poster who said people working days end at 6, you have a lot to learn about the work world. Yeah, some jobs are 9-5 and forget about it, but those are rapidly disappearing, in the white collar/professional world the work never ends, people are e-mailing, working from home, and often just thinking about things that didn’t get time during the day…and then on top of that all the ‘little things’ parents do, like, oh, go shopping, fix things around the house and so forth. Work is different then school because much more of the load is on the person to figure out what to do:)> </p>

<p>I agree that kids could need a mental health day, and if the driven crowd doesn’t like it, who cares? First of all, if kids are going to judge other kids for taking a day off for doing something, if they are so engrossed with themselves, then their opinion isn’t worth much, and quite frankly going down the road it won’t matter at all. There are people like that in the working world, who spend all their time complaining about what others do, putting themselves up as perfection, and know what happens to people like that? They generally end up having a hard time working with other people, they might get the eye of some moron of a manager who thinks like they do, but they usually end up not going far. Hate to tell people, but good managers know that sometimes mental health days are important even in the ‘real world’, and companies often have formal or informal policies to give comp days for stressed out times, so there is value to that. Given the way kids are being driven these days, which personally I think is absolutely ridiculous and counterproductive, I think there are times when the kid needs time and space to detox, within reason. Part of the problem with our school systems is quite frankly they are run on a model designed for the 19th century, not the 21st, where they run schools like a 19th century factory, where efficiency and such was measured by how much they could get out of the workers, literally driving them to the brink, and it doesn’t work well as a model for anything, let alone school.</p>

102

<p>Do any of you think it’s okay to take a student out of class for a week to visit Disney? The parents of my students do this and I think it sets them up to expect they can continue this practice all through middle school and high school. Would it stop at college?</p>

103

<p>^ I’m wondering the same thing Limabeans.</p>

<p>How many parents here feel that it’s okay to take a student out of school for 2-3 weeks for vacation? Also, if you do feel it’s okay, what led you to that decision?</p>

<p>I, like limabeans get e-mails from parents who take kids out for 2-3 weeks to vacation on some island. Of course this will impact their learning and cause them to fall behind. If kids could teach themselves everything we wouldn’t need schools!</p>

104

<p>2-3 weeks? Man, those are vacations. Must be nice …</p>

<p>We always tried to schedule our vacations with consideration for the school calendar, although I saw nothing wrong with tacking on a day or two before or after the school vacation. In a city with a small airport, that is sometimes the only way to be able to get out - everybody wants to leave on a Saturday or Sunday and come back a week later and there just aren’t enough flights to accommodate them.</p>

<p>I will say that my kids were those well-prepared girls who always did their homework, made up work missed when they were sick, and had excellent immune systems so they missed very few days each year. In high school, I begged all of them, especially the compulsive hard worker, to take occasional mental health days. They rarely did, but it was always with my full blessing. They didn’t miss school to get out of handing in work, because the school had procedures in place to make that difficult if not impossible (as colleges do). They would sleep. They needed it, and I am glad they got it, even if it was all too rarely.</p>

<p>I’m a bit annoyed by the hypocrisy I see in schools allowing kids to miss class or hand work in late for school-sanctioned activities, which - let’s face it - make the kid just as absent as the illegal time off. A math teacher dinged one of my kids for handing her daily assignment in late (as the final bell of the day was ringing) - kid hadn’t been in class because she’d been on a field trip that left before the building opened that day. </p>

<p>Best of all, though, was the annual agonizing over whether to call my ds in sick when one of them was performing in an annual Christmas ballet performed entirely by high school students for elementary school students. It was an excused absence for the elementary school kids, but an illegal absence for the performers, even though there could have been no performance for the younger kids to see if the older ones were in school.</p>

105

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<p>I used to be more rigid when I was a new teacher, thinking what we did in class was so important. Now–not so much. One of my children had a first grade teacher who told all of us parents that if we wanted our kids to have hw every night, he would send it. You could also send it back but he would just discretely throw it in the trash. He thought that the standing hw should be to take a walk with your child and talk about their day. My child had the best school year. When we asked him what they were doing for the last day of school, he shrugged his shoulders and said they would probably all cry!</p>

<p>Since that time, I stopped to think about how valuable it is for kids to spend happy times with their parents/families. It goes so fast. If the student is a good worker, I always try to accommodate them the best I can when they go on extended trips. No busy work, just the minimum to help them keep up. I will even try to arrange tests for before they leave so there is no extra stress while on vacation. Even in AP classes, I try my best to accommodate.</p>

<p>That being said, I do warn the students in the high end classes that we will have moved on and that they are responsible to learn all the material on their own (I will not stay after school to reteach a concept because they were laying on a beach somewhere). If I know the kid will have trouble keeping up, I warn the parent to seek out a tutor ahead of time. </p>

<p>It is not worth it to stress to worry about what everyone else is doing or why. Yes, it will probably cost the student a little academically but I often think it is worth it. I always tell them to enjoy themselves and that I’ll be looking forward to seeing them when they return. Missing a week of high school–or going to Hawaii–I’d pick Hawaii every time!</p>

106

<p>I ran into this when my son went to a private school, which was a shocking contrast, we could pay the tuition but vacation was usually day trips to the beach and such…these kids and their families would fly off to Switzerland to go skiing and such routinely, and yes, they would miss school time. </p>

<p>My answer would be as a routine thing, no. First of all, they could schedule going to disney world for a week the school wasn’t open (winter or spring break), or do it when school is out or something, I personally think that losing that amount of school time as a regular thing is ridiculous. I am fully sympathetic to the load school has added to kids lives, where to show how efficient they are they dump hours of homework kids to prove to parents they are teaching, despite the fact there is little proof doing that increases learning, and I think it is important for kids and families to spend time together, but there is time to do that. In effect what harried families are doing is blocking out time from school to have any kind of time together, that between jobs and schools and EC’s families see little of each other, but I don’t think that is a good cure for it (my take is that people have to push back with schools and not accept that a good education means tons of homework, or that a kid has to do every kind of activity to get into a good school, it also means someone taking a sledge hammer to universities admissions people to figure out reality in kids lives, that quantity doesn’t equal quality, the 10ecs are better then 2, if in fact they are doing that, if not, then they should be telling parents to chill out). </p>

<p>I dont’ have a problem if the kid misses a day or two of school, like flying out on a friday and back on a monday, that could make sense, but 2 weeks?Nope. </p>

<p>The one exception I could think of might be something like a far flung family getting together for a re-union that is a once in a lifetime thing, especially if it is far away, there could be value to that IMO. But for a routine vacation? Schedule it when it doesn’t interfere with school.</p>

107

<p>My mom never let me skip school to finish an assignment or miss a test. As for senior skip day…my school district made it into a senior fun day where all seniors (with parent permission form) get bused to a large venue with games and food for the day. There is teacher supervision provided by teachers that were voted on to attend and all school rules are enforced. It gives seniors one last fun day together but in a way that people don’t get in trouble.</p>

108

<p>At my school on senior skip day, I think we weren’t allowed to go to school. </p>

<p>As far as I’m concerned, skipping to get more time to study or for a project is cheating the system, and there are certain advantages and disadvantages to it (which have been mentioned in the thread). The option is open to everyone but should be discouraged, though many parents will act in a way in which they think will help their kids best succeed. Sometimes that should be cheating the system. It’s not really any different than lying to the taxman or taking unprescribed adderall to study for a test. They’re all morally questionable (in my opinion), and carry certain risk and rewards, and in some circumstances make sense, and in others should be avoided. </p>

<p>I never did this because high school isn’t that hard. I could just get my stuff done. I’m sure I had a “joke” schedule compared to a lot of your kids though. </p>

<p>As far as absences, I remember my middle school had a maximum of 280 periods (equates to 40 full days, they took attendance every period) you could miss before you would be held back, excused or unexcused. I remember because this actually did happen to a lot of kids. My high school had no such policy, I think as long as you got at least a D-, you passed.</p>

<p>Getting into college is a competition, and like any competition, people will cheat when it makes sense. The idea that the school will change that by implementing policies X, Y, and Z is silly. Most of the education I’ve had has had very little to do with learning the knowledge they’re teaching. Schools are horribly inefficient if we’re trying to create a populace who “knows” lots of stuff. It’s about practicing how to execute on deadlines, how to do what the instructor/professor (to be client/bossman) wants, and how to prepare to perform when you need to perform. These are real life skills which for employment in the private sector are crucial to be successful, and are hard to cheat. If you don’t practice in high school are you going to get enough practice in college?</p>

<p>That’s just my view.</p>

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<p>AMEN!</p>

<p>I think you are spot on Vladenschlutte. I have seen all the first hand manipulation that goes on to try to “catch” the cheaters. It doesn’t matter. It only ends up penalizing those that play by the rules. The people they are after could care less about rules. I can say however, that the staff does enjoy a good chuckle when it comes to the length some people will go to to get around whatever is in their way.</p>

<p>But what if there were no rules? Do you think that the “cheaters” would get even more brazen?</p>

110

<p>When you focus only the small window of time when the decision must be made for a parent to endorse skipping and do the necessary lying so the kid doesn’t get penalized, then it’s harder to argue against this practice. Who among us will say: “Yes, you must send your overly-stressed and fatigued child to school no matter what! Who cares if he becomes ill or has a nervous breakdown?” Obviously, school is not more important than a child’s health.</p>

<p>But what about all the prior decision-making that resulted in the child’s over-extended situation? Was he trying to have his cake and eat it too? Don’t we all know students who arrogantly, or simply immaturely, sign up for too many EC’s so they can look good for college admissions, but then don’t actually show up for them, or regularly foist their club obligations onto others? Perhaps if the student was over-extending himself, the parent could have advised that he conscientiously bow out of some less important activities in a timely manner such that a time crisis could have been averted. Similarly, there are students who sign up for more advanced classes than they can reasonably handle because they want the impressive transcript. But when the rubber meets the road, and all the work has to be done, well, then they need mom and dad to bail them out by saying they’re sick when they’re not, or bail them out by doing their homework for them, or whatever else. Rather than do that, perhaps they could have considered an ethical and honest way to deal with their academic crisis situation. How about going to see one of the nicer of the teachers who have assigned a heavy workload to request an extension? No lies necessary then.</p>

<p>There ARE children who have thought out the implications and risks of their schedule, and have committed themselves to doing whatever it takes to fulfil their academic and EC responsibilities, even when the going gets tough. To have their school work judged against the work of the student who skipped school so he could have 12 extra hours to write a paper or study for a test, is not fair. Yes life if not fair, and I’m not the morality police, but I’m just sayin’.</p>

<p>One of son’s teachers had kids fill out a bio and questionnaire if they wanted him to write them letters of recommendation for college. The final question asked them if there was anything else not already indicated above that the student would like him to know and/or have expressed to colleges. Such was the prevalence of this skipping and lying behavior among his class, that my son wrote something to the effect of “I always came to school, I always came to your class, and I always completed my assignments on time no matter how much work I had to do.”</p>

<p>Interestingly, 4 years later when it was D’s turn, this same teacher commented to D that he would highly recommend her for the elite schools to which she was applying. He said he could see that she was one of the rare few who could successfully pull off the full athletic and academic schedule she had. So, there are at least a few teachers who will notice that a kid is “sick” a lot, or seems really stressed a lot, and thus will not give a strong recommendation for that student to a top school. And besides, if the kid can’t handle the demands of high school without resorting to lies and deception, how does he think he will handle the demands of a HYP etc.?</p>

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<p>I will just note that there has been very little–if any–disagreement with the proposition that it’s cheesy to skip school to avoid a test or assignment.</p>

<p>I would also say that I don’t like it when policies are so rigid that people are driven to lie. For example, high-achieving kids need to make college visits, and a certain number of those should be excused absences.</p>

112

<p>“Schools are horribly inefficient if we’re trying to create a populace who “knows” lots of stuff. It’s about practicing how to execute on deadlines, how to do what the instructor/professor (to be client/bossman) wants, and how to prepare to perform when you need to perform. These are real life skills which for employment in the private sector are crucial to be successful, and are hard to cheat. If you don’t practice in high school are you going to get enough practice in college?” </p>

<p>I completely agree with the above quote from Vladenschlutte.</p>

113

<p>“Race to Nowhere.”</p>

114

<p>I agree with post 111, Hunt. Our school does allow 8 excused days for college visits during senior year. It’s obviously cheating one’s classmates to take extra time for work when others are judged on work that’s turned in on time. The current technology makes it difficult for a kid to take extra time for written assignments, which can be required on the due date by email.</p>

<p>I’d like to see a measure of common sense on the school’s part and the willingness to evaluate absences individually. Some kids have to audition for college and summer programs, which requires many days off for travel and auditioning. The 7 hours spent in the school building each day are not more important than what the kid wants to do for the rest of his/her life. </p>

<p>Speaking of rigidity - here’s a silly instance of dinging kids for an unexcused absence when others are excused for the same event. Everyone’s seen “The Nutcracker” - remember the Waltz of the Snowflakes, when the offstage women’s chorus sings like 32 bars? In our hs, the kids in the women’s chorus are excused for rehearsals and matinees - but kids who are dancing in the performance are not, because their participation is not school-sponsored. This is just stupid. No one goes to see “The Nutcracker” for the offstage women’s chorus.</p>

<p>The dancers (or their parents) can lie, or they can take a zero for work during the unexcused absence. Or they can show the foresight not to participate in the ballet, I guess - though it’s a great opportunity for amateur dancers to work with professionals, learn a lot about a desired career, or simply have an enriching artistic experience they’re not gonna get in gym class.</p>

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<p>It’s true that it gets absurd at times. The only time I ever pulled my child out of school for a “vacation” was when I took him to DC for a Presidential inauguration. At the time, his dream was to major in poli sci and work in govt. It was an unexcused absence for S, though other kids in his school were given excused absences to attend the same event because one of the elementary teachers had secured a grant to take her class. It mattered not that we had tickets and whatnot to prove we actually went there and to museums, and not Disney World.</p>