Our daughter just finished FYE at Pitt. It was a great but super stressful year. We’ve learned some things and have some reflections I thought I would pass on. As a graduating high school senior she had an ACT 34 and #10/700 class rank.
For background, we have a “normal smart kid” from a high school that is large and solid but in reflection, possibly not all that competitive. It seemed so at the time but now that is out and about in the big world she can see that it was not.
Her interest in engineering came late (early junior year) and by that time she was already locked into an IB schedule. Her school didn’t even offer AP Physics at the time and her core IB Science was IB HL Biology. They did not offer HL Math either. She scrambled senior year to fit in AP Calc BC (thank goodness she did!).
The average GPA after FYE at Pitt for the entering class of 2016 was 2.98. This was a stat quoted to us by the lead advisor for Pitt engineering at the PittStart Engineering opening session. We found it to be VERY true. There are indeed kids who were better prepared and came from more rigorous schools and they did well. Take a step back and be objective about your preparation and rigor of your high school. It doesn’t mean you need to be freaked out, but honest and objective with yourself so you can arm yourself with knowledge.
FYE students at Pitt (and I’m sure most schools) are required to take 17 hours. Chemistry for engineers, Physics for engineers, Calc 1, Engineering Analysis, an elective and then two hours of a seminar class that are required but no grade is given. Each physics and Calc class has a required recitation class also so they will have physics and calc almost daily.
This is my daughter’s advice:
Go to ALL the help sessions, undergrad TA help labs and the math tutoring lab. GO FROM DAY ONE. Do NOT wait until your first round of tests. You should GO even if you think you know everything there is to know. Because you know what you do not know? You do not know how those specific professors will test you on the material. The TAs that staff these labs DO know and they will teach you to the test. Also, they sometimes give out copies of the tests from last year! Those are super valuable. Additionally, some of the physics professors will give you small amounts of bonus points for going. You may look at the bonus points offered and think the amount is so small it isn't worth it. But when you are up against the wall with a D in physics heading into the final you will be WISHING you did ALL the bonus offerings. It saved my daughter and many many of her friends who woke up a few days after finals, refreshed their portals and saw they did indeed get a C in physics.
If you are a strong student and have 5s on the AP tests in Chem, physics or Calculus TAKE THOSE CREDITS AND RUN. Take other classes. Fit in a minor but don't listen to their schpiel that you should repeat them at Pitt. Perhaps start in Calc 2 maybe, but Pitt has crazy departmental final exams (i.e. the final you take will NOT be a final exam created by the professor you had necessarily) and life changing rules about how the final exam grade rule is figured (see #3)
For Calculus: your final grade in the class cannot be more than one letter grade above or below your final exam grade. So you could potentially head into the final exam in Calculus with a high B or even an A. But you bomb the final (remember, this is not a final exam prepared by your favorite calc teacher) and make a D. Then your grade for the class is a C. Yep. The campus will be crawling with kids this summer who are repeating Calc either because they failed it or it tanked their GPA and they need to replace the grade.
Your advisor is your friend. Check in often. They are GREAT, personable and really do root on your student to set them up so they can succeed.
Classes at other colleges: you can take classes at other four year universities (they must be ABET accredited) to get credits you need. You get the credit but not the grade...so it can protect your GPA. This is a smart plan for summer after freshman year. Take Calc 3 maybe? or Physics 2?
If you make a C- or below in Chem 1, Physics 1 or Calc 1 you will have to repeat the class before you move on.
You do not need to run out and purchase the latest edition of your textbooks. My daughter and many of her friends had editions that were a few earlier than the current one. They paid $10-15 for those books and never had any issues.
Pad your schedule. Research your elective each semester very carefully. You need an easy A. Sure you may have an AP Psych credit but hey that would be a super easy A so why not take that class again?
Pitt Plus 3 is a great study abroad program AND you get 3 credit hours to also pad that GPA.
That’s all for now, I’m sure I’ll think of more later. Just wanted to pass that on.
Does the calculus 1 and 2 have a standardize grading scale for every section? I go to UAlbany and they have what’s called “departmental fina” where all the students in every section takes the same final at the same time and date. Some professor have the final worth 10% of the grade while others 30% so they are trying to make it even for everyone. I only took calculus 2 since I transfer from a community college. What engineering program is she interested in doing?
@NASA2014 --no. The grading for all tests before the final does not seem to be standardized. You take only your professors exams.
The weight of the final is the same for everyone but it is kind of a confusing policy. On the syllabus it says the final exam is worth 30% but then way down below it says “the final grade given for the class cannot be more than one letter grade above or below the grade for the final exam.”
@carachel2 Wow! Thanks for the eye-opening information! I will share with S19. He tours Pitt next month and has Pitt on his prospective list. Do you feel like these entry level courses are just meant to weed students out? Also, how does this impact maintaining scholarships?
@mountainmomof3 it’s so hard to know! Pitt will bluntly state at PittStart engineering that they are not trying to weed kids out. And maybe they are not? But the student who goes blindly into these classes without digging in and really working hard will indeed find themselves weeded out. Even the students who dig in and work their tails off will find it to be a LOT of work…like “giving up your weekends” kind of work.
Engineering is HARD. Pitt will give your students what they need to succeed but they just cannot maintain the attitude that they think they know what they are doing and they don’t need help. Most kids just can’t do this.
Don’t get me wrong. Your mileage may vary. I’m just giving you the true life story of a normal smart kid. She does know a few who did’t seem to struggle at all. But she will say most were surprised the rigor. And the stories are slowly pouring in…2.9"ish-3.1 does indeed seem to be holding true for FYE.
As far as scholarships, it does appear there is a bit of wiggle room. They don’t seem to have an official policy but you can call FA and ask about your specific scholarship. It seems a 3.8"ish"-2.99 will allow you a probationary semester where you still get your scholarship $$ but must bring it to a 3.0 or lose it.
At the end of the day she loves Pitt and she has no regrets. She’s excited for next year truly. But it was a stressful year. Be a bit strategic with the schedule. Don’t just drop your kid off and cross your fingers and hope they will know when to ask for help. Most of these are kids who have never had to ASK for help and they don’t want to start now. In retrospect, I wish we would’ve had a “family rule” where she agreed to go to all the help labs and sessions from DAY ONE and to check in with us. It would’ve saved her from that gruesomely brutal first round of tests and then having to dig her way out. She did indeed dig her way out, but it was a claw to the finish—ALL the extra help labs, tutoring, etc.
Also, the beauty of Pitt engineering is they don’t have to compete for their major. So at least THAT pressure is not there!!!
@carachel2 Thanks for all the info. Did your D take Calc 1 or did she place out of it and take Calc 2 or 3? I’ve heard different perspectives from professors at different colleges regarding this. Most recommend taking their school’s placement tests. Some professors (including a dean from an engineering college) recommend against retaking Calc 1 (or Calc 2 if the student took BC and passed the exams). They note that Calc will be hard no matter how many times you take it, and it’s easy to get bored and slack off if the material feels like its review.
@shortnuke great question! S19 will have had DE Calc 1 and 2 when he graduates and had planned on taking them over but after reading the above I am not sure what the best answer is to retaking those math credits.
@carachel2 How do the low GPA’s affect co-op/internship placements? I have heard that companies often want students to have met a certain threshold before they will even interview them. (I have heard 3.0 and then 3.5 being cutoffs depending on the company. Curious if companies just understand the rigor at Pitt and other comparable programs and “get” the lower GPA’s?
Your student will have to take the Calculus placement test. As I said, not an overly rigorous high school and she did not have AP Calc credits. She placed into Calc 1. But it should be said here that she has friends who took Calc 1 and 2 at Pitt because they thought it would be a good review and an easy grade. And for some of them it was a GPA buster.
@mountainmomof3 that remains to be seen. I’ll circle back around next year. Hopefully she will have a co-op!
Most engineering programs I have heard about DO have the same rigor and difficulty to manage the gpa freshman year above 3.0. My kids used their AP credits for calc and chem and jumped ahead in the sequence to calc 3 or into ochem. My son who only got a 2 on AP calc AB was not nearly as prepared obviously and started in Calc 1. The policy for scholarships is that FA checks the gpa once a year at the end of Spring semester - my dear son had much difficulty with that dreaded physics class (and calc2) and barely hung onto his scholarship (with a 3.004 gpa - eek). He had great HS grades BUT horrible lazy study skills. My two daughters went to the same HS but had excellent study skills and great work ethic - they both had 3.8 gpa in bioE. So you need to know and support your kid and not be blind to their weaknesses. Pitt provides free tutoring in addition to their TAs and seeking out professors. It’s just hard for kids to adjust and realize they need to improve skills when HS wasn’t as much of a stress.
On industry judging gpas - my son was gainfully employed out of Pitt with a 3.3 gpa. There were some internships that asked for 3.5 gpa but most were 3.0 for engineers.
@amandakayak thanks! Great to hear! S19 would definitely need to receive and more importantly keep a scholarship to attend Pitt so it always something to consider.
The only thing I’d add is that I’ve heard that the night Calc classes don’t take the same mass final as the rest of the Calc sections. I’d check that for accuracy but if my kid had to take any of the Calc series at Pitt, I’d be checking that out. My own kid took all his credit for his math classes and has only taken one math class in his two years in engineering at Pitt- and it isn’t required for his major. He’s watched plenty of friends suffer thru the finals in those Calc classes.
I think most high schools don’t prepare kids for the amount of studying they need to do at many colleges and good study habits are really necessary for engineering. Parents of entering freshman should try to impress on their students the importance of going to recitations, office hours and tutoring as needed.
(As an aside, my other kid is an engineering major too but at a different college. He has to maintain a 3.5 to keep his scholarship- way stiffer requirement than Pitt’s 3.0! His honors physics class was incredibly tough his first term. He didn’t start going to the recitation until after his first midterm. He has been a straight A student all along and making that transition to college can be pretty rough no matter what university the kid attends. He got his first B his first term of college and that was the best thing ever for him.)
@amandakayak that’s good to bear about the employment and GPA.
I also like the comparison with your kids. I’m super impressed that even your ones with bad study habits managed a 3.0! Mine worked incredibly hard and came up short of a 3.0 that first semester!
The point here is be super honest and objective in your assessment and discussions with your kid. Mine is a hard worker but honestly had taken a more liberal art turn in high school with her specific IB program. She was prepared to write, but not to Calc and Physics!
@missbwith2boys --I have never seen it in writing but my daughter mentioned that engineering students are not allowed to take night classes. I would have to dig around on the website to verify that though but I’ve heard it from more than once source.
Although this is not specific to Pitt, my friend’s son used the summer after his freshman year to take a couple of classes at the local CC, but as an auditor. His engingeering/pre-med program didn’t allow transfer credits but taking the classes (inorgo and an advanced calc) essentially worked as a preview of the materials he was going to be learning. His mom told me she felt it was a good investment in his ultimate GPA. Of course, my friend is wealthy so paying for the extra classes didn’t phase her, but CC classes are usually cheaper and they are often even cheaper if you audit them instead of seek credit.
@techmom99 —that could be a smart idea to audit a class. It would be a good introduction and practice! Of course the transfer credits wouldn’t happen but it would be good practice for a student who is weak in a certain area.
One thing to note is attending recitations is necessary - alot of the quizzes are done in recitations which makes it less possible for kids to skip them at all.
Great thread @carachel2 with great advice. The only thing I would add is that all FYE students need to mentally prepare for grades below A. Most of these young adults are star students and are used to straight As with a small sprinkle of Bs. With engineering, in addition to some As, they WILL get Cs, Ds, and might have a sprinkle of Fs.
Prepare for it. Deal with it. Move on and learn from it.
ETA: During his first semester, my S was very upset and nervous to tell me that he had failed a chem exam, but he managed to make the call. I knew that this was my moment to help him, to calm and to comfort him. We joked about it, I made him laugh and all the pressure was off. I told him that its ok to stumble, but it was important to dust off and get back in. So far it’s working. Finger crossed.
@carachel2, very informative and extremely helpful post for others. Engineering or pre-med (health) kids face the same challenge in everywhere. Pitt is the one of the best colleges for those kids. Students should try their very best to attend OFFICE HOURS…