Parenting a challenging kid. Am I doing this right?

Parent Cafe
21

“Raising Your Spirited Child” was also really useful to us. My son was quite difficult when he was ages 4-7. He’s not on the spectrum, but at age 4 his Montessori school teacher tried to get him diagnosed with ODD and ADHD. My username here is somewhat related to his having what I think that book called “initial negative reaction” and having to learn strategies for drawing him away from whatever else he was doing. (At age 16 he is not far too over-committed.)

It sounds like you are getting professional help. Keep doing that. If a particular professional isn’t working out for him, find another.

A lot of people on various other forums recommend “Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnoses of Gifted Children and Adults: ADHD, Bipolar, Ocd, Asperger’s, Depression, and Other Disorders.” I’m not saying you have a misdiagnosis, just that the book is supposed to be good about explaining the interactions in a kid who has more than one thing. There might be a newer book along those lines.

We don’t have perfectionism experience, but it sounds like you might want to try http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/perfectionism.htm

It gets better… {{hugs}}

22

"His penmanship (print) is actually excellent. "
this is exactly like my DS at his age- his printing was so small and precise it looked like it was printed directly from a computer!

“He has a lot of trouble with back-and-forth discussion.”
Again, just like my DS.

He developed fantastic writing skills- we and his school for gifted students encouraged all students to learn to computer skills early as possible and is now a fantastic, espressive writer- but it still takes a while for him to get the verbal back and forth discussions going freely.

“He gets very upset if you point out a problem with his theory. It is as if he takes it personally if you challenge him”

these kids tend to think in VERY black/ white terms- they have difficulty with seeing “gray” or middle ground.
Especially when they get upset. They tend to take any suggestion as criticism.
But as they mature they will learn to control their temper , with your loving guidance and understanding and will apologize sooner for their flashes of temper. These brilliant, sensitive kids are very emphatic and they feel badly when they see how it hurt others when they lash out.

23

My S was a lot like your S, too. Hang in there - it gets better!

We were fortunate to have a very supportive elementary school. Continue working with the school to sort out his accomodations and support. We also sent him to a summer camp program for kids on the autism spectrum to help with his social skills - it was excellent. But, honestly, it didn’t all mesh together until he was about 11 or 12. By middle school, he had made some friends and had a much better sense of self. High school was relatively easy, compared to his early years.

A few tips that worked for us:

  • Pick your battles and ignore the rest. Some things just aren’t worth arguing about - food, clothing, activities.
  • Share and support his interests (which may change as he ages). Yes, my eyes glaze over when he starts droning on about his current obsession, but fortunately, he doesn’t notice or care.
  • Set down clear, written expectations with consequences.
  • Be flexible and keep a sense of humor
  • Make sure that your other child gets enough one on one attention (and that he knows that he’s not responsible for his brother’s behavior)

Oh and a word about sports - despite being very coordinated, our S was never able to do team sports. But he loved dance classes (started at age 4 and danced all the way through HS). He also loved running. He was “discovered” at 6 running on the local track with me (the wrong direction, of course) and a local coach volunteered his time on Saturday mornings to run with him for several years. Running became his stress relief and we encouraged a run every day before he started homework.

24

Hugs to you. I have been there. In our case, the first neuropsych testing was arrange by me due to difficult behavior at home, messy handwriting and drawing and immaturity and was done at a younger age so dyslexia was missed (unable to read at young age) and most results came out reasonably normal. I did get Occupational therapy for the child for sloppy handwriting. Flash to 4 years later, complete meltdown. Repeat testing clearly showed dyslexia and a child that was so frustrated and angry that years of special private school and psychologist appointments followed. Finally we are coming out on the other end. Clearly not an easy going kid but doing well in school and looks like college will happen. This is an extremely gifted kid but anger and personality got in the way of progress. The first big step was eliminating handwriting- go with laptop for all writing assignments. Also, even though extremely bright, going to an easy school that specialized in LD really helped student catch up in reading and writing in a comfortable non stressful environment. And the student felt so great being able to behave and cooperate all day in school for several years. Now at a private high school that has a small program for LD as a single class for support. The student is planning to major in STEM and is taking APs , etc.
So… keep loving the child. I did not do a great deal of punishing (not saying this is right.) Lots of hugs, and acceptance and patience and lots of money spent on getting help. I only share this story with you because I want to offer hope and share our path. We are not at the end of the path yet but are optimistic for the first time.
Let us know how you are doing. I will be thinking of you!

25

My son learned in a different trajectory than the majority of his peers too. Your description of your son’s particular idiosyncrasies are not really the same as ours were. But some of the most important things we did are extremely simple and would help with any behavioral issue. Most important: enough sleep! It’s surprising how common lack of sleep is, and it just makes life terrible. Next, allow playtime and snacks before diving in to homework! Some parents can be very proud of pushing their kids to do homework as soon as they get home, but that didn’t have any happy results in our house! Also: enough food! Hunger had disastrous effects with this one. Free time for these smart, creative children is IMPERATIVE.

So, no technical information, just common sense.

The other thing that strikes me about your description is that your little boy is only 7! So I would just be a little wary about pushing him so much. You never know, though, you don’t want to lose an opportune time for him to learn this stuff. I can only tell you that my son frequently was behind his classmates in reading. He was always captivated by story books, though, and knew everything about certain subjects. For some reason, reading didn’t kick in with him until third grade. We had tried lots of workbooks and stuff, and he would make progress, then…stop. It was worrisome. But then, in third grade, it all coalesced in his mind, he became a reading maniac, and has never looked back. Some people do fine, but they are not on the mainstream timeline.

26

@hanaviolet brings up a great point. Don’t judge your son by comparing him to his peers, or even to his sibling. Imagine his life as a journey, and he is setting off from the East Coast heading to California. Others in his age range are making that same journey, and you are disappointed and/or concerned as you see these other kids taking fast plane rides to arrive quickly in California. You need to realize that others his age are riding trains or buses to get to California. Some are in cars going across the interstate highway system to get there. And some, like your son, are on a bicycle, taking the scenic route.

They are all going to get to California. And the folks on the plane had a boring, predictable route and actually may have missed out on the experiences of traveling across the country by another method of transportation. Imagine the great adventures your child is going to have on his bicycle! Plus, at any point along the way, your son may ditch his bicycle for a faster mode of transportation. And that’s okay too.

It is so hard for parents of young children to see the big picture. Where your child is at now is not the end of who he becomes. And if you can encourage, support and love on your child, he can eventually blossom into an incredible adult capable of great things. It is unfortunate that our national education system is designed to foster the mainstream child only. Students are individuals and have unique character traits. I was born to be a traditional student, born to want to sit still and obey everything the teacher said. I learned well in a traditional classroom and couldn’t understand the one boy in our class who appeared to want to defy our teacher. He was the one climbing a tree in his dress pants on the museum field trip. He was the one who disrupted the class, and he was the one the teacher duct taped his feet to his desk when he wouldn’t sit still. (Yes this was a million years ago, and yet I still can’t believe she didn’t get fired for doing that!)

I am friends with that boy on Facebook all these years later, and he is married and has a great job and posts the most insightful, thought provoking posts of all my FB friends. He is a pleasant, well-adjusted adult despite the bullying he endured and the misunderstanding of his quirkiness by the private school we attended.

27

@intparent, don’t disagree about Your Sprited Child- that’s why you have to read both books! Many behaviors are on a continuum and it’s pretty hard to know where normal is. My older kid is probably borderline Aspergers, mildly OCD according to one neurologist (I never saw it), and had (very mild mostly outgrown) Tourettes. For him the best approach was a mix of nudging him to expected behaviors and also appreciating that not everything is pathological. He was also incredibly precocious and many of his issues were because his body couldn’t do what his brain wanted it to.

No question though that for some kids medications and therapy are necessary. Quirky Kids gives some guidelines about when to go and where to go for help.

Finally the school that didn’t teach your kid to read may have done nothing wrong. I have two boys - one started reading at 2, the other was still struggling with reading at the start of second grade. The slow kid suddenly got reading midway through 2nd grade and went from primers to Harry Potter over night. I saw it happen, “Mom, I can read!” as he was looking over my shoulder. They both scored nearly identically on the reading part of the SAT.

28

Oh, my kids both read late (middle of first grade), and also took off like rockets. D2, mentioned in earlier posts, had 800 CR and 800 SAT Subject Test II lit scores. And like the OP’s kid, it was torture to get her to write a sentence until probably middle school. So, OP, as we keep saying, hang in there, and keep working with him.

29

My kid who couldn’t read loved to write (and still does) - he used to dictate stories to me. The other kid loved to read, but never did like writing - college application essays were torture for him. Luckily he had no problem writing factual papers. Did fine in English and history classes and only freaked out when some teacher would decide they needed to do some creative writing!

30

Would a support group for parents facing similar challenges be a good resource? Perhaps being able to connect over time could help with morale. perspective, anticipating the next phase and information gathering. You are working hard to support your sons in all their efforts and it is important that you have ways to recharge. Of course, groups aren’t for everyone and there are many ways to make it all work.

Some school districts, neuro-psych testers or testing centers, hospitals, clinical settings and organizations focussed on a particular diagnosis offer short or long-term parent groups. Many members continue to be in touch, even if the formal group is time limited. Groups may be led by parents or professionals, including professionals who also parent a challenging kid. If you want to find a group, it helps to know that if one is not a good fit, it’s worth trying another. All the best to you and your boys.

31

What state are you in? I cansuggest resources in my state, but wouldn’t work elsewhere.

32

As others have mentioned, I appreciated the section of “Raising Your Spirited Child” that turns negative adjectives around to positive ones. Some days I just had to hold on to the idea that the traits that were so challenging in my small child could be strengths when she grew up.

Another book I liked was “Siblings Without Rivalry.” I reread it every couple years because different parts were relevant as my kids got older. My recollection of what I got out of it is that kids need to be treated uniquely, not necessarily equally, and to be careful about putting my kids in permanent roles in the family. It also gave me a lot of insight into the family I grew up in.

Hang in there. My kid who was asked not to re-enroll in a preschool is a successful college student.

33

Yes - finding the right school was critical. We live in NYC and my son attends a charter school known for a strict discipline code and academic rigor. Coming from a very therapeutic special needs environment to this particular charter was a Very Big Leap. Two people in the world believed it just might just be crazy enough to work: yours truly and her mother. I’m happy to say that my mom lived just long enough to see that her grandson, to use her phrase, ‘got with the program.’ (Rest her soul.) It is a K-12 school system so the years everyone warns me can be a nightmare (adolescence on the spectrum) will have continuity with these more relatively simple days.

School is basically a social-emotional-academic ICU. We have routines worked out like a well-oiled machine (each morning he and I review his daily schedule at home, then he gets a second review at over school breakfast - so two previews to prime him for the day before 7:30am). There are daily text messages (sometimes a dozen per day), monthly (sometimes weekly) meetings. I send photos from work (sometimes using my white board to make thought bubbles above my head), they send photos from school (happy moments, proud moments). And when things derail, we are on it. There is an openness to finding out what works. When he had trouble keeping safe hands in line, I mentioned that he was into the history of Rome big time and could we maybe make him a ‘standard’ to hold in line? Like in the Roman army? They laminated a picture of his teacher’s college alma mater’s mascot and taped it to a ruler. He carried it proudly. Problem solved. We are all of the same mindset: “he can do it.”

This is not to suggest that every moment was (or is) smooth sailing, but there is a unity of purpose among parents, school and our CBT therapist. We are all on the same page. Feelings are OK. It is never wrong to feel a feeling (frustration, anger). We are all working on helping him become more self-aware and take ownership of how he processes and responds to those feelings. It is very empowering for him.

Amen to support. I’m seeing a therapist for the first time (triggered by my mom’s death but so helpful for special needs parenting support) and his big message to me has been that among all this planning and strategizing and progress-tracking not to forget the magical stuff which is so ephemeral. As many of you have suggested we are on a long journey and being constantly worried about the future is just unsustainable (even if justified!). I’m also trying to carve out 1:1 time with my younger son. I blinked and he went from 3 to 5… 6 this December! His personhood is emerging before my eyes and I don’t want to miss it.

Just want to say thanks again. This thread has be really huge for me. Such smart, thoughtful, helpful parents here. Such great insights.

34

You need to keep evaluating his school for fit over time. What works now may not work in the future. Honestly, that type of school probably would have been a disaster for my kid. An environment focused in strict discipline and rigorous academics can also be really inflexible in dealing with a quirky or 2E kid. As the academic expectations grow in middle and upper school, you are going to really want to watch this.

As we talked about earlier in the thread, as parents you sometimes have to work hard to remember that some difficulties they have are related to their disability, and you have to figure out scaffolding or extra coaching because they have a harder time with things like executive function skills than others their age. It usn’t being stubborn, it is just how their brains work (or don’t work). In some strict and very rigorous school environments, they have trouble seeing that and adapting to give the extra support a 2E student needs to succeed and build all the skills they need.

35

This is what everyone else in the world (apart from my mom) said: are you CRAZY? They will boot him before the first leaf falls. Or if not, he will come home crying every day and hold on the the doorframe in the morning and you will just wave the white flag.

So far, I have no evidence to support the theory that they do not ‘get him’ and give him the scaffolding he needs in the here and now. The amount of time and resource they have invested in him is staggering. Way over and above the IEP. And there is genuine love going on and pride of craft. The day he passed F&P reading level H (from A!) is burned in my brain. First the gym teacher gives me a high five. Then the science teacher says, ‘Can you believe it?’ I’m wondering what the… then my son comes running up to me with a big laminated sign which announced, ‘I passed level H.’ The principal came runs over to us. His homeroom teacher had tears. That was our fist big win. And my first taste of school-as-tight-ship.

I was on major watch for signs of emotional breakdown when we started. And that may happen still. I watch this kid like a hawk.

36

The workload and pace accelerate in middle school, and really picks up in high school. Communication with parents is far more limited, and expectations that your kid will handle all of it themselves are much higher. Being a K-12 school does not guarantee that all levels will provide what he needs later on. But it sounds like it works for now, so that is good.

37

The workload, pace and expectations of autonomy were exactly why we opted to take the Very Big Leap while he is still so young so he can start forming good habits (before the bad ones take root). I look at this kid and think, this is going to be a lot of work! OK, let’s get started. Now.

My younger son is, innately, organized and driven/competitive. He attacks homework, opting for his least favorite topics first to ‘get them over with.’ He is very bright, tops out all of his assessments and tests. On top of that he is athletic (soccer is his jam). I’ve just enrolled him in CTY’s online to see if it is something he enjoys and to give him more challenge in math, which he loves.

My older son avoids (or kicks up a fuss about) anything he finds challenging and will do the minimal amount of work he can get away with. This disposition is, however, highly mismatched with his passionate nature (which I recognize as being a great asset especially in R&D professions or anything entrepreneurial). He seeks out books about topics du jour, he asks about the pictures he sees of Syrian refugees on the cover of the newspapers in our apartment vestibule and I can’t get away with pre-coffee fobbing-off answers. Why don’t they want to stay in Greece? Why can Germany take in so many migrants? What jobs will they do? He is bloody interested and persistent in asking.

So I’m working with him to entrain better work habits while the intensity of the academic work is (relatively) low. Home, dinner, chit-chat, attack homework, chillax. Rinse, repeat. The whole idea of scaffolding is that it is temporary. Once upon a time we would have to prompt him to reflect the question back in his answer (Andrew likes to visit his grandpa because…). Now he can’t not do it. So that good habit got entrained. One of a thousand boxed checked.

Believe me, part of me would rather homeschool him and just fall into pursuing his passions for now. Just read books and talk and hang out. But while he and I would both like that it is not in his best interest.

The whole scary part and reason why I posted is that I think we’re on a good path with our current set-up, but maybe I’m wrong – and I get one shot at this. So I’m always looking for advice. I know I’m doing some things sub-optimally now, for sure.

For example, I didn’t realize until this year how important unstructured social is for him. I don’t know how to facilitate it at all. Many playdates end with my older son in a corner with a book. So that is something that I know I need help with. But what else should I be working on?

38

As a parent, you know your kid better than anyone. What works for one child and family may not necessarily work for another. So I would say, carry on with what seems to be working. But be on guard for signs of stress in both of your children. Be careful with your expectations (spoken and unspoken) and just let your kids bloom into the people they are meant to me.

My S, while extremely bright, never had the temperment to be a scholar. He coasted through HS with very little effort in schoolwork, but maximum effort and passion for his music and dance. We realized his passion and gifts early and did everything we could to support him. Now, at 20, I realize that we would have made him miserable if we had pushed academics and tried to expect the same things from him as we did his sister (who is academically successful). Every child is different!

39

Wow, it’s sounds like the school is truly working with you and your son and you all have the same goals!!!

You might want to check out an email list gt-special. It’s for gifted and talented with special needs. You would find lots of great information and parent support about special needs (even without gt side).

Also keep in mind, over time things can change so be flexible. Situations that work great this year may not be the right one later on. It sounds like you are doing all the right things, finding what works best now and giving consistent environment and signals to your son.

40

I would make him excessively busy. I do not know how you could do it without a car though.

But something like couple hours of swimming practice every day (not from the beginning, but eventually), make them soo tired, they have no energy to act up. Seriously! I saw a huge difference even in a child who is well behaved and no complaints about anything. They could only drag their feet to bed and collapse…nicely and quietly…
Being stubborn is not a negative side of the character at all, that is if one learns to use this trait in a positive way. As a parent, we should guide them in this journey. I am very stubborn myself and it has been a life changing positive side for me and all around me, they thanked me many times over for my persistence. I can see it in my kids and grandkids, but maybe more in my GrandSon. The kid would not take “no” for anything and I am glad that he does not. Accomplished more at 14 than anybody predicted, actually amazed all of us, including his older sis. There were many broken things on a way, but that is how they learn to build…got to be a bit more patient with this type…But everybody has been very very busy, they do not have time to breath, let alone to think about next acting up adventure…nope, got to run to next activity.