Parenting a challenging kid. Am I doing this right?

Parent Cafe
1

I have two boys, 5 and 7.

R, is a very happy first grader and easy-to-love kid. Sometimes he wakes up singing. He gives the best hugs in the world. He’s Mr. Soccer and Mr. Math and Mr. Potty Humor. He’s fiercely loyal to his big brother…

C attended three schools in three years by the tender age of 6.

  • The Montessori school kicked him out when he was 4 (ripping up work, negative talk, rages).
  • The Special Needs school we tried next was infinitely more tolerant, but at the expense of academic progress. We were told repeatedly that it was OK that he wasn't learning to read. It felt completely wrong. On instinct, we left that school.
  • In his current school, they put him into reading bootcamp (he kicked up a huge fuss but they were very insistent) and he went from F&P level <A to M in about a year. He absolutely loves to read now. So that seemed like a vindication of the decision to 'force' him to be in a mainstream school.

But was it? With C I feel like I have to make all of these profound decisions.

  • Neuropsychological evaluation (Yes.)
  • Medicate? (No.)
  • Special Needs school? (Yes then no.)
  • Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (Yes!).
  • Mainstream school (Yes - the academics have been excellent but lord almighty every day is a phone call about something behavioral - I've already fielded two calls about incidents just today).
  • Hates all school work so what do I prioritize? (Reading > writing > math).
  • Hates sports, do I make him do anything athletic? (No. Just lots of walking, we don't own a car.)
  • Nature time? (Yes. Digging up worms. Bug hunting. Hiking.)
  • Screen-free? (No! Screens are way too stimulating for him.)
  • Social time? (Yes - some sharply-supervised playground time, and lots of sibling time, Lots of lego free-play.).

C is passionate about science (especially astronomy and evolution) and has outstanding memory for scientific facts and excellent vocabulary and comprehension skills (139 verbal IQ). Wants to be an inventor. But ask him to write a sentence (about any topic of his choosing!) and he will break the pencil in half if he doesn’t try to stab you with it first.

In a nutshell: I feel like I have to fight him like hell to help him become the person who he wants to be.

A typical exchange:

Me: “You still need to write three sentences.”
C: “I’m going to invent robots to write sentences for me!”
Me: “That may be the case but right now, you need to write them yourself. After the first sentence, you can draw a robot on this index card. OK?”
C: (Throws pencil at my head.)
Me: “No thank you. Please pick that up. Three sentences. You can do it.”
C: “OK.” (Writes a word. Stares off into space…)
Me: “Good. What’s the next word?”

And so on.

Every day is a series of battles. Which battles are the most important? I work full time but I spend a lot of time worrying about my parenting choices. I’m heartbroken over this child. I’m terrified I’m making the wrong choices. I’m terrified for his future.

My philosophy is roughly:

  1. Make sure he keeps his passion for science because passionate is the ultimate motivator.
  2. He doesn't understand that he needs a lot of academic skills to be successful (in real life) in science so swallow having to be 'mean' and making work at his academics because see #1.

So that’s the paradigm. Fight. Fight. Fight. Put up with the blows he showers you and keep fighting to make him work and eventually you will make it to the next set of skills (then fight for them). Dig up the occasional worm. Repeat.

Big fan of CBT. Big fan of Ross Greene’s books (Explosive Child, Lost at School).

Am I doing anything glaringly wrong?

I’m so keen on the perspectives from older/wiser parents, especially those who have “been there.”

Thanks for any comments!!!

2

Disclaimer: I didn’t have these issues, so I am no expert.

The only thing I see that bothers me is that he hits you when he gets mad. He needs to stop, especially before he gets bigger. Or did you mean figurative blows?

I think you are on the right path. Your son is still very young. Lots of boys are just not ready to sit down and work at a desk all day at age seven. Is there any kind of alternative school at which he wouldn’t have to be so still?

The two things I think I did right: 1) establish clear rules and boundaries and 2) listen to them. If I said “no hitting” I meant it. If I said “put that down” I meant it. There was a definite and quickly enforced consequence for misbehavior. My husband was much wishy washier, the nice parent, the indulgent one, but as time went on, I was the more obeyed and respected one. If I said “take your clothes upstairs” to my teenagers, they did it. I was predictable.

The listening part evened out our relationships. I paid attention to and took seriously what they said and their concerns. I knew who their friends were. I knew what games they played. I let them go on and on about their lives and interests and really paid attention. I think giving them my undivided focus always helped. (It doesn’t have to be all day; you can carve out a time that is just for your son every day, a special time.)

You don’t have to find the one right answer now. Your son will change and so will his needs. For example, I had friends whose sons went to a special school for behavior problems for a few years. At that time in the boys’ lives it made sense. These kids needed some emotional support in late elementary school/ early middle school. Like your son, the boys needed greater academic stimulation, so they came back to public school later.

Good luck.

3

Sounds like Aspergers or PDD to me. In which case, hang in there. Just dealing with it is “right”. There is no right thing to do sometimes with these kids.

He sounds like S2. We still have that conversation. But he is now a sophomore. Honors classes. Still dogs it getting. 90 avg. but he has friends, is happy and all the rest is either gone or much less…hang in there. 5 to 10 years old were hardest for us.

4

This sounds like a young man I know, now 24. You are working way harder with this boy than that boy’s parents did. What comes to mind though is that he’s not being obnoxious and recalcitrant because he likes to push your buttons. For some reason, it is too hard for him to write the sentences. I don’t know why but that’s what I’d try to figure out. What if you made flash cards of words – could he put them in order (I.e. is the physical act of writing too much for him? And I agree that the words like Aspergers come to mind.

5

He does sound like he may have Aspergers Syndrome. I definitely recommend a neuropsych eval. You may also want to request an Occupational Therapy eval. Children who have behaviors that you describe have benefitted from social skills training and sensorimotor integration which can be provided by an OT. You may also consider a speech eval because although he sounds quite advanced verbally, he may have a written language deficit causing him frustration leading to his outbursts. Good luck to you and your son.

6

There is a really great kid deep down inside that squirming, screaming, science obsessed child. It is not your job to fit him into the mold of society. Society will bully him, tell him he is stupid, and his self-esteem is going to bottom out. He is a square peg in a big society of round holes. He is not wrong, he is just different. What he can imagine and create and invent in his lifetime could change the world, since he probably doesn’t think inside a box.

I have lived this scenario with a relative. I have, at times, struggled when my child was forced to play with him, and I have seen the parents in tears trying to get their child to fit in. Having friends is the hardest for a little boy who has sensory issues and doesn’t operate on the same playing field as others. They tried all kinds of schools, and even homeschooling for awhile. (I highly recommend homeschooling. It takes the pressure off, and you can individualize learning to your child’s interests.) You can even register as a homeschooler but hire a tutor to work one-on-one with your child. (Depending on your state laws.) This child was bullied at school because of his smaller size, but when he tried to defend himself got punished instead of his attackers. It has been a horrible journey, and I wouldn’t want any other child to have to go through that same set of experiences.

It is not about forcing a child to behave. It is about understanding how your child’s brain works, and his physical and mental issues that may make it difficult to sit still, be in a classroom with 25 other kids, and hold a pencil and write words. Once you can get your child tested and feel confident that you know who he is and how he ticks, THEN you can set out to give him the best education for the way he needs to learn.

He is so young, he doesn’t need to be forced into meeting common educational standards. He needs to be loved and appreciated for who he is, and gain confidence in his abilities. A lot of kids don’t read until they are 8 or 9, but are caught up and racing past their peers by the time they are 11 or 12. It is not how your child is doing compared to anyone else. It is figuring out what is right for your child.

My relative had a great experience with a Brain Balance Center. It was thousands of dollars of treatment, including a special, restrictive diet for months, but it has miraculously changed his life. He is back in public school and doing well with making friends and learning in a larger, mainstream classroom. (Forgot to say that he was diagnosed with Aspergers.)

It is so hard for parents to live through this. If you are married, it is so hard on your marriage. It is hard on the other child who is behaving normally. Take deep breaths. This is a marathon, and you need to pace yourself. It sounds like you realize there is an issue. Look for support groups. Get the appropriate testing done.

Wishing for you a moment of joy in the midst of your chaos.

7

get him tested. asap.
check for Aspergers [ probably has] Disgraphia, dyslexia, Auditory processing disorder. Find out what kind of learner he is- more visual or auditory.
He sounds like he is a much better visual learner- he gets distracted by what he sees and does not listen when he is looking at something that holds his interest, correct? Kids with Auditory processing issues “hear” perfectly well, but the hearing portion of the brain scrambles the sounds [ its kind of like dyslexia of the ears] and it takes a lot of mental effort to actually hear what is being said.
Kids like that find it easier to learn with their eyes and stop paying attention to what is said, especially verbal instructions to do something he does not want do or cant do well.
May I suggest that you allow him to type instead of making him write manually? Whats important is for him to learn to write - which for some kids with learning differences can done MUCH more easily with a keyboard than by hand.

8

^yes this. my S2 gave up on handwriting at about 9. He’s 15 and does write now, but slowly.

9

^ I agree! Both my boys and both my brothers suffered through their time in elementary school when handwriting was so important. They were slow to develop in that area and never all that interested in writing neatly, especially when the ideas were pouring out.

The writing could be dysgraphia or it could be slower development. In any case, it is frustrating your son.

10

Do you not discipline him when he hits you or throws things at you?
I think you sound devoted and appropriately concerned. Best wishes.

11

OP, perhaps you have already tested, but the rages, rpping up work, throwing the pencils or homework, the daily call (or 2) from school: you are reliving my life. Test him. Behavioral Cog. Therapy in a daily in-school setting is key. It gets better. S2 is a handsome wickedly funny kid, lots of friends (not close tho) and teachers love him. It gets better.

12

Not wanting to write can be a sign of too much perfectionism too. My oldest hated writing even though he taught himself to read when he was three. He could see that his spelling was wrong and made up spelling was the vogue because they didn’t want to hamper kid’s creativity. It worked great for kids who couldn’t tell that what they were writing was mispelled or who didn’t care, but my kid (with some Asperger’s tendencies) just hated that no one would tell him how to spell.

Anyway, just echoing the others. Have him evaluated, it sounds like he needs more than he’s getting.

BTW, aren’t there any message boards for parents of young kids?

You might find these books helpful:
http://www.amazon.com/Quirky-Kids-Understanding-Helping-Doesnt/dp/0345451430

http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Your-Spirited-Child-Third/dp/0062403060/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1442279362&sr=1-1&keywords=raising+your+spirited+child

13

Your post makes it sound like you have had a neuropsych eval done. What did it show? My D2 had a fair number of these same qualities. Diagnosed with a non-verbal learning diability & and mild ADD, also borderline aspie (some evaluators say yes, some say no – definitely some behaviors on the spectrum, I am in the yes camp). Having a diagnosis helped me see that it wasn’t just stubbornness on her part, and reduced some of the conflict we had. It also helped when talking to her school.

We had her in a small, independent private school with small class sizes and supportive teachers for K-12. It was touch and go whether they would let her come back after kindergarten, but they did. Pricey, but we were lucky enough to be able to do it. No meds tried.

She is now a junior physics major at a top tech school. It was a long road, and there were a ton of times when I despaired of her ever even going to college. She is so smart, but was so challenged in so many ways. To me it sounds like you are doing the right things. Hang in there.

14

@mathmom, a neighbor knocked on my door and handed me a copy of “Raising Your Spirited Child” when D2 was 3 years old. :slight_smile:

15

Have you had the neuropsych. done? If so, what do the test show? What are the recommendations? Why have you decided no to medication? A good child psychaitrist can offer options, discuss side effects and effectively monitor effectiveness. Sometimes medication will assist a child to enable them to be open to behavior therapy. You have done so much, keep up the good work, you identified his strengths, don’t forget to take care of yourself.

16

There were two big insights I got out of Your Spirited Child. One was that most behaviors aren’t all bad. Stubborness is not that different from persistence for example. The second was that sometimes behaviors that drive us crazy are caused more by a mismatch between child and parent. A rambunctious kid might not bother a parent who is rambunctious themselves for example.

I find as a grownup I often like people that other find prickly and difficult.

17

If writing is difficult, can he at least dictate his thoughts that include the equivalent of x sentences and work a bit on writing? Dictation is an important skill and speech to text program can be helpful for young people who have a diagnose problem with physically writing.

18

The thing about that book if I remember it correctly is that it doesn’t take into account that there may be underlying conditions that are at the root of some of the behaviors. Is D2 stubborn? Yup. Is that the root cause of most of her school and social issues? Nope.

19

Wow, lots of great thoughts from everyone here. You sound very caring, and your son is lucky to have such a committed parent! :slight_smile: One of my sons was very similar, and I agree with others that it sounds a lot like Aspergers. But like you, I did not want to medicate. Limiting screen time, testing his diet to see which foods seem to make him more difficult to deal with (sugar and wheat are usually big culprits), and staying calm and rational as much as possible all can help. Also, my son felt a lot better when he got regular exercise, so even if it’s just a lot of walking, I would keep that up. He sounds very, very smart, and I know from experience these kids can do great…however the very most important thing is finding a school that is a really good fit. Sounds like you are already doing a lot of research and trying different schools. You might look into Waldorf education too. Though it was not really a fit for my son, they do have some very interesting ways of approaching teaching that might appeal to his more defiant side.

Best of luck! And feel free to email me directly if you want more info, I went through something very similar. :slight_smile:

20

Thank you for the feedback. It is a relief to hear multiple people say, ‘my kid was like that,’ or, ‘I know someone who was like that as a kid.’ Followed by, ‘hang in there.’

He’s had two evals (one at age 4, one at age 6). He meets the criteria for autism (mildly) as well as general anxiety. We’ve done CBT for the anxiety and it has been nothing short of miraculous. The anxiety is still there but he has tools now to a) recognize his physical reactions, namely, tensing up and getting rage-y and b) counter-act them – in his case, this is doing deep breathing then c) trying different techniques on himself (Can I reframe this problem? Can I break it into parts? Can I ask for help?). We also helped him figure out how to give himself a pat on the back for trying (not succeeding - just sincerely trying). We tried stickers, points, prizes. Turned out that drawing a robot on an index card was the sweetest reward.

Does this all work perfectly all of the time? By no means. But it works a lot of the time 1:1 and even some of the time in the classroom. When it doesn’t work, I usually am the first person outside of the classroom to hear about it. The school reports every bump in the road. That makes for hard days but they are honest days.

Yes, he knows throwing pencils is wrong. Hitting is wrong. Between age 1-5 he was a pretty ferocious biter and face-scratcher (R - S2 - bore the brunt of that). Things have in fact improved on that front. We are working on keeping a safe body while we learn how to get control of big emotions.

Yes, he hates to write because he is uncomfortable with invented spelling. His penmanship (print) is actually excellent. He can even write in different styles. When his robots speak, he will do boxy lettering in the word balloon, for example. He absolutely loves to draw inventions and has a good grasp of proportion and composition. I keep everything not out of obligation but because I actually enjoy his pieces. They have spirit. They have soul.

He has a lot of trouble with back-and-forth discussion. He has a theory about why all of those Homo Naledi were in the back of that cafe system. He gets very upset if you point out a problem with his theory. It is as if he takes it personally if you challenge him. If anyone has book suggestions about how to work on that…