Parenting question: three different kids and praise

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Some great parents on here - want to pick your brain on a parenting topic.
As my oldest boy finishes his applications, he’s had a remarkable high
school run. Sky high scores, multiple languages, awards for technical
achievement, invitations from tech firms to meet and stay in touch.
My middle boy is gifted as well with some of the course work coming
to him with even less effort than the older brother. Then the third boy
is wonderful in his own way - a little bashful, but very well liked and a
good student. But he’s not at the same level academically as the older
brothers were at a similar age. I am blessed and love them all. </p>

<p>The question has to do with all the praise and excitement of achievements for
the oldest - a perfect SAT math, awards, an invitation from a top school to apply
free and in the spring I suspect some acceptance letters from some pretty good
schools.When these achievements happen I of course want to celebrate them. But
I’m also conscious of the younger brother who comes at life at a more gentle
pace. </p>

<p>One thing that’s worked is that I have always tried to praise effort over the specific
award or achievement. I also try to stay attuned to the progress of the youngest
say in Scouts or his music and be encouraging. As they say - catch his doing good
things. And I try to make time to do things with him - camping say - which the oldest
boy cares nothing for (dirty and dusty!) I avoid comparisons because they are all
so different. </p>

<p>Wondered if any other parents on here have dealt with a similar parenting
issue and what worked for you. It must be tough being the third kid behind a
couple of hard chargers.</p>

2

<p>Don’t short the older one because the younger might feel bad. Son #1 deserves the awards and the praise that goes with them.</p>

<p>I’m sure your third son will have opportunities that his brothers didn’t experience - a class trip, an athletic award, a music award. Or not. That’s life and the younger son will have to deal with it. If the order was reversed and the older kids were good but not great students, and the youngest suddenly was a NMS or won a big science prize, would you not celebrate because the older sons hadn’t had such an award? No, you’d shower the youngest with praise. Do the same with each child as he receives awards.</p>

3

<p>I too have three boys and have “struggled” a little with what you mentioned above. My oldest, being the first, did very well in school, excelled in his engineering hs classes, was 4th nationally in a tech. competition, was an NMF, got 35 on his ACT on his first try, and was his hs val. The second went to a different high school so had his own experiences, so at least they didn’t have the same teachers but this son had all As in school too, 36 ACT, excelled in band, NMF, and also was the hs val of his school. Then comes my youngest, who is very intelligent too, but had to work a little harder for his A’s, had to take his ACT 3 times to get his 32 so he could get the college scholarship that he wanted, and was the 4th in his class. He went to my oldest son’s high school and at least with 4 years between them, hopefully there weren’t too many comparisons. </p>

<p>My youngest is in college (he chose the same school as his middle brother) but we had him “alone” for two years when his brothers were gone. During that time it was his “turn”. I made a conscious effort to praise him whenever I could, to be interested in what he was involved in, and to “nag” him the same way I nagged his brothers regarding college apps, etc. My youngest is also my most “friendly” and “social” of the three so sometimes I played that up, mentioning how I wouldn’t worry about him as much socially when he went to college as he made friends so easily.</p>

<p>Did my youngest feel that he is not “as good” as the other two. I don’t know, but I certainly hope not. Now he is at college, he is working hard for his As (and looks like Bs) and I am happy with the grades he is getting. I am hoping he is too. However, I am looking forward to reading other people’s comments as I could still use the advice.</p>

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<p>We have a similar situation in terms of academics with the first two out of three, but the third marches to her own drummer and is involved now professionally with a performing art.</p>

<p>First, throughout child rearing, I tried to avoid praise as much as possible. I couldn’t do anything about the school staff, of course.</p>

<p>In my opinion, all the praise from adults has had a negative impact on my oldest, who tends to depend on the opinions of others as a result. My youngest may be fortunate in having escaped external praise and having to depend on internal sense of self instead. I think in the long run she is better off.</p>

<p>(It didn’t help that one of the high school teachers asked my youngest why she wasn’t more like her siblings. Unbelievable.) </p>

<p>Alfie Kohn wrote an interesting book on this subject." Punished by Rewards: The Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A’s, Praise, and Other Bribes ."</p>

<p>I think it comes through loud and clear when a parent values children for character, generosity, even individual quirkiness. If a parent values some kids for their grades and scores and prestigious admissions, that also comes through loud and clear. To the original poster, it certainly sounds like you value all three of your kids as individuals and they must know that. As you hinted, the real problem is with school and community, and there isn’t that much you can do about that. Spending time with the youngest and showing interest in his activities is a good antidote and about all you can do.</p>

<p>When high school is over help him find a good fit for college or a good path if not college. He will probably end up happier than the other two, who knows.</p>

<p>I have read there is little correlation between success in high school and life and once we reach a certain age, we know that very well as we watch former classmates or meet them at reunions. </p>

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<p>I have an older gifted - more quirky son, and the younger above average intelligence, but homecoming queen type. What I’m most sad about is that they are so fundamentally different in personalities that they haven’t made it to the friend part yet. However, younger is definitely proud of her brother. Older brother still thinks she’s not serious enough about academics and too interested in fluff.</p>

<p>I am proud of both of them and do praise their strengths. I am more like the younger one so we can talk about her strengths without it being about her brother. </p>

<p>When it came to college they simply wanted very different things, from geography, size, focus, etc. Neither would like the others school for themselves. We even joked how S would have stomped off the tour we went on for the younger as soon as they mentioned school spirit, football games, or anything social. She wouldn’t like the hardcore academics, quiditch team, the “nerdy” kids. </p>

<p>I always stressed fit. It had to fit them all across the board. And at the end of the day they both did find that.</p>

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<p>kj - In most other famliiey, your son #3 would be an academic rock star! ACT 32 is a great score, even if it took hem a few tries. </p>

<p>OP - It’s wise to avoid comparisons where possible. That does not mean lack of any celebration. But I’d say focus more on some things (like finding a good-fit college) and not say too much on the perfect SAT scores that help make it happen for the first guy. </p>

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<p>coloradomom, so true about number 3. I am very proud of him. I just hope he is proud of himself for his accomplishments. </p>

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<p>My two kids, daughters could not have been more different, and they came out of the gate that way.</p>

<p>I, too, praised effort over outcome. In fact, the first time my oldest came home with straight As after a really hard semester in high school, I think she expected a huge parade. She said to her sister once, when I was telling the youngest, “Look, it’s not your grades. I couldn’t care less about that. It’s that I think you aren’t working AT ALL. I only care that you try,” “It’s true. Mom really only cares about if you try.” She actually sounded disappointed by this. Hah!</p>

<p>Fast forward, oldest out of college and working, youngest a sophomore in college and doing very well, I most appreciate that both of them are really engaged by life and what it is that they are doing with their time. And I think the only way true engagement happens is when someone is putting in a strong effort on something and that coincides, fortunately, with something they really enjoy. That said, I think the chances of that coincidence improves dramatically when someone is in the habit of putting in a strong effort.</p>

9

<p>Two children. The oldest was off-the-charts from the beginning, reading at 5th grade when entered K, a numbers fanatic, a challenge for teachers to keep busy. Outstanding achievements in EC’s in H.S. in journalism and debate. Test scores nearly perfect (3910/4000 combined SAT scores with not a minute of prep or repeating a test). It was hard not to encourage and praise him b/c teachers and other parents would single him out. No advanced degree. His post-college years have continued recognition for exceptional achievements – book awards, and other awards. A public personality. </p>

<p>The younger had a different personality and innate talents. Exceptional in art. Not a mathophile but very good. In some ways she lived in the shadow of her brother, who was 3 years ahead and shared some teachers. Wasn’t interested in pursuing a general education in college but rather in specializing in art. However, during those college years she discovered other interests, including green design and sustainability, and her career has focused on this as she earned an MBA on top of her BFA and is establishing a reputation in this area. She is no less smart than her brother but her intelligence focuses on different aptitudes and subjects.</p>

<p>A parent cannot avoid praising their children’s achievements. To avoid invidious comparisons, however, they have an obligation to help each child to be praised and recognized for their interests, talents, and achievements and given equivalent opportunities and support.</p>

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<p>I worked for a school district with 7-12 graders for 6 years. My boss would tell us over and over that fair was not necessarily equal and that we needed to treat each student fairly even if we didn’t treat them equally.</p>

<p>I have tried to carry that over to how I treat my own kids. They are different genders, different ages, different personalities and have different needs. It is impossible to treat them both equally and fairly. Fair needs to win out. </p>

<p>Be fair with each of your kids, given the situation they are in.</p>

11

<p>“I am blessed and love them all.”</p>

<p>The very fact that you say this means that you needn’t worry - your good heart shines through. </p>

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<p>I guess this discussion makes me ponder difference between “praise” vs “being excited together”. I think a lot of both happens with top students. Probably the the trick is to find the right mix of private and family discussions. </p>

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<p>Harder to say than to do, but praising effort and trying their hardest to reach their potential in something (which sometimes may entail taking the harder road) rather than achievements definitely is the right approach.</p>

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<p>You sound like a wonderful mom! I also have three boys. The oldest and youngest are the academic stars. My middle son is bright, but he has to work a lot harder. I try to meet each of their needs individually and find opportunities for each of them to shine. Without comparing, I do talk about each of their strengths. I’ve always talked about what a good friend my middle son is and how much I enjoy watching him play sports, where he is very talented. I think it’s also helped that they have each had their own schools that they helped choose that are good fits for them. I also try to find opportunities where they can support each other/have fun together - sometimes they will help each other with homework and they all like hiking together, which seems to minimize the sibling rivalry.</p>

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<p>I think superior achievement should be recognized and celebrated. I am very happy when any of my siblings achieve something that I couldn’t or didn’t. Kids are pretty good at understanding objective measures and the nature of winning. If one kid can run 100 meters in 10 seconds, and the other in 13 seconds, the slower one shouldn’t really expect his effort alone to result in a celebratory dinner.</p>

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<p>Praise in general can have destructive results. People can tell themselves if they are doing their best. I like the phrase “being excited together”! I tried not to look at report cards at all: I could tell who was working hard in my house, regardless of grades.</p>

<p>Howard Gardner’s writing on “multiple intelligences” can also be helpful. Our school cultures tend to value just one or two of those "intelligences.’ Schools also use competition and incentives to motivate achievement, rather than genuine interest. </p>

<p>Honoring effort over results is fine but the kids learn pretty quickly that that is not how the world works. My youngest worked ten times harder than my oldest but got no recognition of this from teachers, only lower grades than her siblings. We had to work on her strengths outside of school because the school, despite rhetoric and “most improvement prizes”, really does not value effort over results. Nor do colleges or workplaces.</p>

<p>Again, I truly believe that praise for achievement at a young age can hurt the kid doing well more than the absence of it hurts the kid not doing as well, over time.</p>

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<p>Praising effort is kind of important, I think. As someone who sailed effortlessly through school myself, until I finally hit something that didn’t come easily to me, I know students can develop bad habits when teachers only look at the end product instead of the work that went into it. Whether @compmom is right or not, developing good work habits without requiring external praise for the end product is not a bad thing. </p>

<p>(@compmom, I think that you are mostly right and that effort is not valued as much as it should be in the workplace, but I also think work products are often valued based on how much the workplace paid for it, not how much it’s actually worth!) </p>

<p>My kids are very different academically. My older one was always challenging herself to do more and do better, and she’s extremely internally motivated. My younger one is more sensitive to not taking on too much and she needs a little more external validation. </p>

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<p>If there is an over-the-top attitude in the home about stats success, then all the kids will know that mom and dad value that over everything else.</p>

<p>There are households where dads only brag about their kids’ athletic successes, so the smart child (especially a son) feels like the loser in the family.</p>

<p>Praise ALL real successes…artistic ones, academic ones, athletic ones, and so forth. </p>

<p>Praise the efforts even if success wasn’t achieved.</p>

<p>Discuss (not shame) failures and mistakes to determine better future solutions (if they exist).</p>

<p>Praise all talents.</p>

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<p>I think you are doing great! If that youngest gets his Eagle Scout then you will be there cheering for him too!</p>

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<p>School is not life. It seems that way when we’re young. It’s usually arranged as years and years of exercises ranking kids. However, I look around and see that the world is not run by straight-A students. I would worry more about the kids for whom everything comes easily, with heaps of praise. I don’t know if it’s possible to un-learn arrogance. </p>

<p>As we get older, it becomes more possible to concentrate on our strengths, rather than be constantly down-graded for not being globally gifted. Does a leading fashion designer need to know multivariable calculus? No. She very well may earn more selling her creations than the kids who were praised for their math team results all through school. </p>