Here’s a question for all of you who are further along than my husband and I are. Is there some sort of a turning point at which the elderly couple (my in-laws) will allow you into their medical lives, and stop pretending that they are going to live till the end of their lives in exactly the same physical health that they are now in. My mother-in-law is pretty well for a 79 year old. She can walk half a mile every day with her dog. My father-in-law is walking in his house with a rolling walker, has apparent stage 4 heart failure (we know he has heart failure and kidney disease) and can’t get up to go to the bathroom without wheezing like he’s run 5 miles. When he goes out to restaurants, he regularly falls down. He hasn’t gone out to one for several months (thank goodness) but we think he will try to go again with his poor wife in the near future. Is he just going to fall and be hospitalized for a while, and then they will make him have home health care? Will the doctor ever tell him that he can’t walk outside of the house? I don’t understand how so many of you have complete transparency. They are 79 and 84. Thanks for any responses from this frustrated CC parent! P.S. The stress that my MIL is enduring from being his physical caregiver and being trapped with him most of the time is making her act out. She is not reaching out, though.
Where to begin?
If it were up to my parents they would have insisted on living in the same house with no help. However we moved them onto our farm, in the cottage they built for just this purpose, using the pandemic as a prextext.
As for how we knew about their medical situation, while they were still competent they had signed a power of attorney, a health care proxy, etc. While they were here their doctor just accepted the oroxy and talked to us. Especially since I was taking them to appointments and sitting in on them.
When they moved here I downloaded their medical records from their previous provider. I can’t remember now if I set up an online account pretending to be them, or if they signed releases.
I would guess none of this is terribly helpful, but that’s my experience.
Thank you! I’m not going to hope for another pandemic for a pretext–and I don’t know if that would even work with them. I love the “online account pretending to be them”! 
That gave me a chuckle! My father-in-law is what in the old, uncompassionate parlance used to be called a “dry drunk” (I apologize, the best I could Google up was “people who don’t have healthy coping mechanisms, despite having stopped.” The fuller explanation is that the term applies only to people who were forced to quit (basically because they drove themselves to the door of death/heart surgery) but did not really want to. They thus have not reached any peace of mind about themselves or mortality. It makes sense that he will just be in denial till the end, but, as you can imagine, his codependent spouse going back and forth between denial and reality is a weird situation to handle. This has actually done me good to write about it! I’m seeing that the main problem is not the physical stuff, but the mental stuff–so we don’t have to try to reach through the mental stuff to help with the physical stuff. We just have to wait until there is some point of access (through her).
It depends on the individuals and couples involved.
We were lucky (I guess ) with my parents in that they both died before we ever reached the point of needing to intervene. They did have DNRs and advanced medical directives. I honestly don’t know if they had anyone set up to have POA, but if they did, it would have been one of my brothers (the one with the most flexibility to be able to fly to Florida, where they lived).
My in laws had everything in order before it was needed, but after my FIL died, my MIL changed POA to SIL from H & eventually just told SIL to manage all of her finances. She was 94 when she did that - she realized that she didn’t have the ability to handle things herself. I guess it’s good that MIL isn’t dealing with anything, but my SIL would not agree that it’s been good for her. She’s the D, the local sib, and stuck with it … it’s been really hard work. She would never not do it, but it’s honestly not easy.
I think it’s so dependent on the individuals involved. The only advice I’d give is that while we want our elders to maintain their agency at some point it becomes an actual safety issue and you just have to take over, whether they like it or not. Or you all agree that he’s going to fall and end up in the hospital and get pneumonia and die there. Don’t I sound mean? But, really, if they are of sound mind then I think a little reality/tough love is in order. You could give them the stat from this video about what happens when you fall and break a hip.
It was a long process for me. It took years and years, and me nearly having a nervous breakdown before my parents allowed help and made me POA/health care proxy. But the actual turning point for my parents was a medical crisis and some strong language from their doctors.
Every step towards more help was met with kicking and screaming and again, a crisis, to finally push them to the next step.
My only really advice would be for you to have a plan. Interview home care agencies so you know who to call. Visit some facilities, both for skilled nursing and for assisted living. Make sure you know your parents wishes for advanced directives. Have the name of their attorney. Know where their bank information is. In my experience it’s better to not be doing those visits during a crisis.
Hugs to you!
Our biggest issue was that favored sib was very unaware of medical issues and in deep denial. We had to fight long and hard for him to an agree to DNR (which was a condition for skilled nursing).
By that time, mom had stage 4 cancer, a bleeding fistula and pain. It was very very challenging for everyone. I took over driving my folks to the md because i liked to know what the md said and my sibs would write “everything was fine.” I developed a rapport with the MDs and could zoom visits so they could see mom’s legs anything we were concerned about. I pretended to be mom & set up an online acct.
I also got their mail sent to dad’s law firm instead of the house they had lived in for decades—insurance, medicare & SS. The docs were happy to work with the family.
Oh gosh, that’s an excellent question.
My parents were/are technologically incompetent and had no medical portal until we had to set one up for them – so I had the passwords, etc and would just log in as dad to read notes, etc. But yes, it took one medical crisis after another for that to happen and he never did know that we were doing it. My mom, otoh, just didn’t know how to set one up, so we did that for her and showed her how to use it. But then she found it confusing (still wants to print the internet) and handed it off to me. This will all depend on the kind of portal and healthsystem. I took this part bc I am the far away sibling.
My ILs have no desire to share any information at all and are a disaster waiting to happen. FiL now gets angry at any attempts to help, MiL is rapidly losing her cognitive ability (they are only 81 and 83) and is still recovering from covid. We are immensely frustrated by the oncoming train of fate headed right for them — but DH is resigned to it. BiL is his father’s son, believing that they’ll live to 100 and then just drop dead one convenient night. It’s excruciating to watch. They don’t have any passwords, info, anything written down. At all. We don’t even know who their doctors are. Months ago I lined up their prescriptions and took photos and that’s literally all we know.
In our experience it always took a crisis to move to the next step. But being as prepared as possible always helped. I set up electronic accounts for all of their bills initially without them knowing about it - took a picture of a bill and then used my cell phone number for authentification. Worked for most places. At first I just monitored to make sure bills were being paid, but when they were being paid three times each, I stepped in and had bills sent electronically to me and paid for them. I also set up portals for all of their medical providers and monitored them as well. I ended up with a 10 page document including all of the portals plus other info like their SSN, drivers license number and all of the service providers. This list became essential later. I also used the medical providers to create a medical history and current meds list for each of them which I posted on their refrigerator so that it would go with them to doctor’s appointments or to hospital in an emergency. They had medical and personal POAs set up but with each other first and then the children. When one was in the hospital, we got them to recognize that they should resign as each other’s as it was too much to handle if one was in the hospital and at those times they needed our help. Some banks pushed back on their resignations and wanted them to be notarized, but many state laws required banks to recognize POAs unless they suspect fraud so ultimately all of their financial institutions recognized their resignations and their children’s POA. They only finally agreed to get live-in help, when one was hospitalized and hospital wouldn’t release unless we had a care plan in place. We told my mother that my father couldn’t come home from hospital unless they got live-in help. She very reluctantly accepted as we said it is either live-in help or facility according to the doctors. We had already researched agencies for live-in help in anticipation that this crisis would happen sooner rather than later. Less than a year later, when both were hospitalized, we said only way they could be together was to go to a facility. They agreed that they would do for the winter (because children were 100 miles away and might not be able to come when needed in a snow storm). We did not sell their house until after they passed. Both had significant dementia, including anger and paranoia. We generally went from crisis to crisis until they were in a memory care unit and by that time one was in hospice and the other soon to enter hospice. We did try to prepare in advance for what the result of the next crisis would be - researching agencies for live-in help, research memory care units etc. It was a really long 4 years, with both my sister and I taking periodic leaves of absences to handle the crises. My weekly “walking therapy” with a friend in a similar situation was a life saver for both of us.
I am sensing a theme of light subterfuge here. 
That works!
My mom and dad never had a computer or email address (thankfully!) so we did a lot of things for them via ours or made-up email addresses using their names, which gave us access to medical and financial things. Most of it mom was fine with (eventually) such as my sister paying her bills, but some of it she was just unaware of, such as me paying property taxes on some land they owned. After awhile, annual expenses such as those taxes had ceased to exist for her.
My problem is my dad’s rollercoaster health. One moment he’s taking care of his affairs, the next he’s very ill and I’m expected to handle everything. Then he improves somewhat and I’m halfway involved. It’s kind of frustrating. His financial advisor was lecturing me on something I’d done when I was in Texas - hey, I was just following my dad’s instructions! And then he picked the realtor he’d used in the past, a woman my sister and I are NOT impressed with. I think he could have gotten a good bit more for the rental house he sold last month. Oh, well, I just have to do the best I can and not worry about it.
100%. Rinse and repeat as needed!
Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Fortunately my dad was a record keeper and stayed organized. “It’s all in a file cabinet and a couple of ledgers.” At the very least ask where the will is. I did set up quite a few of his accounts with my e-mail address and phone number for auto pay etc so I could keep track and hopefully ensure nothing got too lost. His medical portal was all under my contact info. Unless you’ve got access to their email (assuming they use it) it can turn quickly into a nightmare especially since these days everything is verified by text or email–if it’s not coming to you directly then you can’t get into anything. My dad was happy for me to do it but if he hadn’t I would’ve been scrounging around for clues and grabbed what I could.
You do the best you can with whatever information you have at the time. That’s my mantra.
I do remember a few times arguing with my dad. My main argument was that he was free to do as he wished. I can’t stop him. BUT I’m the one he’s leaving to pick up the pieces–so if he couldn’t do it for himself then at least do it for me.
I’m considering getting that NOK Box so my kids don’t have to dig through things like I did with my parents. Even though I am way more organized than they were, it would be nice to have everything in one place and easily update-able if needed.
Reading all of your stories, and thinking of my own, it is hard to imagine that some day WE might be the main characters and our kids might be frustrated that we are not compliant or willing to move, or in denial etc 
Oh, I can already guarantee I probably won’t be compliant. And definitely not moving anywhere. And probably in denial also.
I did get a NOK Box though (all the papers with instructions–I’m setting up my own box) and it’s comprehensive. It’s not a “quick thing”. It’ll take time to fill out to do it properly–and not everything can be stored in one box simply because of space so you’ll need a file cabinet for the majority of papers (you can record insurance numbers etc but the actual policy is elsewhere for example and you say where it is), But it certainly is a great way to point people (including yourself, lol) to where the info is. I especially like the directions for survivors on what to DO with the info and where, why it’s needed.
My SIL’s dad is in memory care. Ice cream is magic for him. Will do whatever you ask (inc meds) if ice cream is involved. It brings back good, warm feelings for him, when he is otherwise often combative.
Do take care of yourself, too.
That was my FIL, and he showed me everything. Then he died and my SIL took everything when she was helping my MIL move. Everything is currently MIA. I suspect it will remain that way, because I doubt her H will let me look for it … it’s been more than 30 years since I have been in their house. It irks me that the best laid plans can go awry.
My sister shredded everything. I don’t know what her hurry was to get rid of it all. What happened to the seven-year rule? 
Oh, my SIL “lost” more than just tax returns. She doesn’t know where some very important documents are that we will need down the road. Luckily, the trust has a trustee from MIL’s bank, so he has copies of the will and trust. We did, too, but MIL changed some things after FIL passed and H has no idea exactly what was changed. He knows his mom changed POA from him to his S (she is local sib), but a couple other things have slipped out & H refuses to get worked up about any of it.