Parents editing college student's papers

Parent Cafe
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I will just add that I checked my kid’s schools guidelines. (You all got me nervous!) Basically permits input from others as long as that input does not rise to the level where the person giving input could reasonably be considered a co-author. Which is a pretty high bar (and I think a very sane level.)

So before you all break into a cold sweat thinking you’ve ruined your student’s academic career, check the school guidelines. They obviously are not all created equal.

Here’s a few random internet searches:
U of Scranton:
C. Collusion - Ordinary consultation of faculty, library staff, tutors or others is legitimate unless the instructor has imposed stricter limits for a particular assignment. Any cooperative effort is forbidden which results in the work or ideas of others being presented as one’s own.

Notre Dame specificially mentions “peers” as being acceptable. No specific mention that others are or aren’t permissable.
“Working on material with other students is of great pedagogical value, and the Honor Code should not be construed as discouraging such work. Unless such consultation is forbidden by an instructor, students may work with other students on assignments and present ideas and even written work to their peers for comment and criticism.” (ND also says you should give credit in endnotes if using others’ ideas.) This is a place a wise student would get permission I think.

Cornell is kind of confusing. The general university code of academic conduct says:
“Course Assignments. Students are encouraged to discuss the content of a course among themselves and to help each other to master it, but no student should receive help in doing a course assignment that is meant to test what he or she can do without help from others.”
But the engineering school’s code is explicitly contradictory:
"On Papers:
•Receiving unauthorized help in writing the paper, including deciding on paper topic, drawing conclusi
ons, analyzing data, etc. or not giving credit to another for these contributions.
•Giving unauthorized assistance to another student writing a paper. "

So you should double check your students academic intergrity code if they ask you to proofread or discuss content.

The one thing all academic honor codes have in common is that the final ideas be yours or be attributed. So if you give your kid a specific idea that they include without some form of synthesis or amplification you are probably stepping over even the most generous line.

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@liska21, I would argue that you’re wrong in part. Yes, UW’s law school explicitly allows copyediting—but no, it does not allow stylistic contributions from others.

And @CaliDad2020, the fact that peers are listed as acceptable by Notre Dame means that non-peers are not acceptable (stemming from the actual meaning of “the exception that proves the rule”).

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I copied the UW rule pertaining to what kind of editing is allowed in #133. It explicitly allows “stylistic recommendations”. Is that a “stylistic contribution”? I’d say a recommendation is definitely a contribution, so the UW rule explicitly allows at least one type of stylistic contribution.

BTW, for another law school, I saw that they did not even allow you to show or discuss your papers with other students in the class. Any proof-reading whatsoever by others was a violation of the honor code at this school. So clearly it varies by school.

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@dfbdfb which is why I suggested one should ask. UW allowed anything short of “substantive contribution” btw…

It is interesting (and surprising to me) that so many schools have so many different standards (and so many parents have such different approaches.)

Here are a few more from a random internet search: (many schools just don’t allow “unauthorized collaboration” that suggests each course has its own standards.)

Harvard: “Unless otherwise stated on the syllabus or website, when collaboration is permitted within a course students must acknowledge any collaboration and its extent in all submitted work; however, students need not acknowledge discussion with others of general approaches to the assignment or assistance with proofreading. If the syllabus or website does not include a policy on collaboration, students may assume that collaboration in the completion of assignments is permitted. Collaboration in the completion of examinations is always prohibited.”

College of Charleston: “Students should be aware that unauthorized collaboration–working together without permission-- is a form of cheating. Unless the instructor specifies that students can work together on an assignment, quiz and/or test, no collaboration during the completion of the assignment is permitted.”

Baylor: "(4) Offering for course credit work prepared in collaboration with another, unless the student secures the instructor’s permission in advance of submission. A student does not prepare work in collaboration with another if he or she merely discusses with another a matter relevant to the work in question. "

St. Mary’s CA “(d)Receiving unauthorized assistance in preparing papers, whether from classmates, peers, family members, or other members of this or any other College community;”

Williams instructs the instructor to make allowable collaboration clear: “Use of outside resources
If students are allowed to use some resources but not others, please make the distinction clear. May course readings and the student’s own class notes be supplemented by classmates’ notes? By published interpretation and criticism not assigned in class? By talking to their mom? By Wikipedia? By assigned readings that they have completed for another class the same semester?”

Tufts: (acceptable collaboration) “Helping a classmate or friend write a paper by discussing ideas and ways to approach the assignment. Giving feedback and advice to a friend who has asked you to look over his or her draft of a paper.”

LaGrange College: Does not permit even proofreading without instructor consent.

and this question was directly asked in the context of cheating to the president of UVA:
Q: For three years in college, my father proofread and edited my papers. I never thought of this as cheating, and highly doubt that he did. What do you think?

A: I think it depends on the professor. In my own classes, I say to students: “It is fine with me if you consult with librarians, or writing tutors, or others, people who edit your work or give you suggestions about your writing. I don’t have a problem with that. But, the ideas and the final expression of those ideas must be your own.” So at least in my class, that would not have been cheating. But one of the things that’s really important is that professors do have to explain what their expectations are to the students.

So there you go - obviously, students, be sure to check your schools code before email a paper to anyone for feedback.

145

I haven’t read the entire thread, but I’m laughing a little imagining the deer in headlights look I would have seen on my parents’ faces if I’d ever asked them to read over anything I ever wrote and make edits or give suggestions. :slight_smile:

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Middlebury expressly prohibits parents giving any help with essays and says so during orientation. They don’t want any student to have acess to a resource that other students don’t have. Personally I don’t think proofreading a kid’s paper is a crime if the college permits, although I would much rather not do it – most college essays are pretty boring. And I certainly couldn’t comment on the content of a kid’s college essay if I wanted to, lol! I did proofread a few of D1’s essays early on, though, and can proudly tell you that doing so did not prevent her from meeting with her profs, establishing relationships with them, or becoming an independent adult. Did read D1’s senior essay, enjoyed it, and found 2 typos.

147

Interesting. I have a friend who helped with(wrote) his son’s papers from a very early age, and the kid is currently having trouble passing college English.

Writing is tricky. The line between helping and ghost writing is blurry.

After reading the OP, I immediately thought about computer programming. If my daughter called me from college and asked me for help with a programming assignment, I wouldn’t feel like a ghost writer at all.

If a kid gets stuck with programming, it’s easy to get them unstuck, without taking the steering wheel. I think with writing, it’s much harder to give the wheel back to the kid, especially if you enjoy writing.

I saw my friend do it, and I knew it was a mistake, but I didn’t have the heart to tell him. If I did have the heart, he might have pointed out all of the mistakes I was making with my kids :slight_smile:

148

@walknoneggshells interestingly tho, I noticed in looking at the various honor codes that many schools have stricter rules on coding collaboration than on paper collaboration. Many of the school prohibited another student helping debug your code. Some allowed them to give you suggestions on how to go about it, but many expressly prohibited another student debugging code with you, fwiw.

I’ll say again, I’m surprised at the wide range of codes and acceptable behavior. Students need to check for sure.

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Can someone tell me what “stylistic contribution” means?

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@“Snowball City” Sure. Hey Kid: stick to 1st person or 3rd person. Hey kid, might want to look at all your adverbs, you have a lot. I’d look at the variety of verbs. You seem to be locked in a repetitive sentence structure. This sounds awfully colloquial for a research paper. This sounds awfully stiff and detached for a motivational speech. This stinks! And, of course: “Your idea of exploring the drop in US jobless rate and stagnation of wages through the imagined rantings of a starving feverish feral cat might be clouding the clarity of your work…” That kind of thing.

151

I would argue you’re reading that wrong. Disallowing unauthorized collaboration means that there has to be an explicit allowance of any contribution—or, put another way, it sets as a default that collaboration is not allowed, with exceptions to be made on a per-course (or per-assignment) basis.

152

@dfbdfb I’m not going to spend too much more time on Honor codes, since I’ve now looked at probably a dozen or more and every single one is worded differently. I think you are correct in many cases. But in others the instructions are not so clear. As in the Williams passage cited, the instuctors were asked to make what is “authorized” collaboration clear. The students are only admonished that: “Indebtedness to the specific ideas of others, or the summarizing of several pages, even though expressed in different words, must be acknowledged by a note stating the source.”

I’m not really sure what you are arguing here. It is clear to me from actually, you know, reading the codes that there is not any great uniformity and “unauthorized collaboration” is used to mean different things in different schools, from “No one can look at your paper and give you feedback” to “you can get input from anyone as long as you note/cite it” and many steps in between.

So again. Your kid should check their school. Every school seems to have one posted on-line.

And again, I think reading and commenting on my kid’s papers help makes them a better writer (they really dodged a bullet with the cat-paper! whew!) and I wish that they would share more of their writing, as I’m their most demanding critic, but that’s just me and I am prepared to live with my poor kid wandering the house in diapers their diploma in hand crying for a dummy if that is the tragic outcome.

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@CaliDad2020 Thanks for the help understanding “stylistic considerations”

I think the takeaway is check with each instructor and get precise instructions.

I am wondering at what point to do take the training wheels off and let them wobble off on their own academically? It may not be great technique at the start but as they gain confidence, they gather speed and learn to lean into the curves. I cheer from behind, “You’ve got this! You’re doing great! Try again!”

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@dfbdfb You keep upholding the argument that in many institutions editing assistance by a parent is deemed collaboration or plagiarism and breaks some school codes of ethics. And, yes, in some schools it does–but in many others it though, itdoes not.

Assuming a school is ok with parental editing…do you still have an issue with it? To me, that makes it an issue of parenting choices; the question becomes more about how involved should a parent be in their students lives.

As a parent I give my children plenty of opportunity to be independent. But I also will seize opportunities to teach and guide them regardless of their age. There are very few times that I will turn them away if they seek my help. I’m not talking about the type of help that means taking on an entire project because they can’t be bothered. But I will help them do their best if they ask for guidance or need prompting. I know that as an adult with more life experience I can see things from a different adult perspective and I don’t hesitate to be their mentor. And yes, sometimes that means reminding them to update their resumes and start looking for internships in January (when a lot of their friends miss deadlines). Or it may mean asking how a project is going and whether they are managing their time well.

When I think about the parents I know, and the most sucessful young adults I know, I would say that their relationship is generally a fine balance between involvement and letting go. Often, the extremes of total non-involvement or total smothering is detrimental to both the success of the children and the development of a solid relationship between parents and adult children.

So to me, the issue of editing is also an issue of parenting. And when a parent feels they can help, it is a teachable moment within allowable perameters.

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I think @dfbdfb is way into the minutae of this at his school. Which is fine bc it’s his/her job. It just tells you that at any school, profs will interpret the code as they see it, so beware. IMO, these codes should not be traps for the unwary. I think dfbdfb’s syllabus is pretty clear, so…

Though I am a really great writer/editor (toot toot, pat pat), in the past, if I “over edit” my youngest’s papers, their grade has been lower than when I just leave it alone. Their style is their style. Meddle with it, and it becomes muddy! so just look for typos and stay out of it is my motto! Having said that, my oldest has never asked…

156

I guess I was fortunate to attend a college where all the students attending were decent at writing, and thus parental help was neither expected nor allowed. If the rules don’t prohibit it, I suppose you can keep editing,but I do have to wonder if it is really in anyone’s best interests to do that-it seems it just delays the time your student can actually produce decent material themselves independently,or their motivation for doing so. At some point they do have to grow up, and perhaps help their own children.

157

Forget papers…is anyone able to help with their kids’ math? Somehow that’s not a problem since we all forget math 5 minutes after our last math class! lol!

158

@“Snowball City” I just don’t have that concern. The training wheels came off long ago. I mean, the kid is off at college. I almost never hear from them.

I am much more concerned with continuing to engaging my kid intellectually because I enjoy it. We used to do it in the car on the way to school or games or whatever. Now we do it at Thanksgiving, the occasional quick conversation, a meal on a weekend…

Yes, if you are afraid your kid is using you as a crutch, you need to cut the cord. But I simply don’t understand why, if it is academically permitted/encouraged, I wouldn’t want to engage my kind on an academic pursuit if they were interested in my input. But again, they no longer are very much… so… I’m SOL. Other mileage may vary.

159

@uskoolfish, if a school or the instructor for a particular course is okay with parental involvement in a student writing a paper (or lab report, or problem set, or…), then yes, it’s acceptable behavior. I continue to think that it skirts the edge of ethical behavior, though—college is supposed to be where the training wheels come off (to use the metaphor someone else used upthread), you know?

In addition, involvement in such things by parents with more educated backgrounds creates a handicap for students who are, for example, first-generation-in-college students. (Which, on reflection, may be why a solid number of schools at what are often thought of as being at the “high” and “low” end of the academic prestige scale have quite firm policies on this—the former because part of their mission is often to break down walls set up by privilege in favor of something more purely meritocratic, and the latter because part of their mission is to serve precisely those students without such privilege.)

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@CaliDad2020

With my kid I don’t feel academically disengaged. Every term there is guaranteed to be a class where she phones me after class, telling me what she learned. She sends me links to videos of invertebrates and articles about the colonization of Latin America. However, I have no idea of what she writes for class but she has taught me a lot.