Parents forcing me to lower course rigor

Pre-College Topics High School Life
1

My mom is forcing me to drop APUSH for junior year so I can “focus on my activities,” but I suspect it’s really because she’s scared I’ll get a B as I’m not doing great in ap world. I’m scared course rigor is more important than grades for private schools and grades are more important for state schools, and I’m planning to prioritize both. How important are the two compared to each other? I know the answer is both, but it’s really possible that APUSH or second semester world would be the class to bring down my 4.00, but I’m also an ORM and most kids with my profile will take all APs possible. I also don’t know yet if I’ll major in STEM or humanities (though I’m leaning towards math). Another thing is that I’ve only taken one year of a world language and it was the third level of my native language, so even though my grad requirements are fulfilled I know my WL rigor isn’t ideal.

tldr: mom doesn’t want me to take APUSH, GPA vs course rigor?

2

Take APUSH. If you’re applying to schools where a 3.85 vs 4.0 GPA and high course rigor is significant to admissions in the context to out-competing other skilled applicants, you should be capable of at least an A- in APUSH (assuming you go to a relatively difficult school). I would encourage you to see where you are falling short in AP World (essays, analysis, etc) and work on it. This will be critical for writing college essays, 780+ SAT english, etc.

3

Which class will be the most fulfilling and interesting for you? Here’s something to consider- my kid, a junior, tested into AP Lang but chose to take the regular English class this year. She did this because all of her other classes were APs and honors, and she wanted to make sure she wasn’t overwhelmed with homework and had time for ECs. Guess which class she complains about the most? English. Because, unfortunately, the other students in the class are not academically motivated- it’s mostly football players and kids who aren’t taking the class seriously. Group projects are miserable. A chunk of her grade is based on class discussions, which are rough when many kids don’t participate. Luckily, the teacher is great and recognizes the situation for what it is, but it’s been very frustrating for her. So if you really want to take APUSH (vs just thinking you ‘should’) then make a case that it’s the best class for your learning goals. Fwiw, she’s in APUSH now and it’s the least amount of homework she’s had yet, out of the APs she’s taken.

4

It depends. One B or two won’t have big impact. But once your overall UW GPA fall below 3.75, then course rigor won’t be able to “recover” the lower UW GPA when applying to “selective” schools. Good Luck.

5

It depends on which state schools you have in mind. The top public schools also value rigor (they label it “very important” in their CDS).

1 Like
6

Talk to your guidance counselor and teacher in your private school – work to craft a schedule that will be challenging yet manageable.

4 Likes
7

However some mid range publics award merit based solely on UW GPA and don’t consider rigor at all. Arizona for example. So it very much depends where you might be applying to. If merit is critical for your family’s finances then don’t assume hard courses will automatically be a better choice.

3 Likes
8

Yeah, I’m really interested in Berkeley and UCLA which definitely value rigor. However anecdotally based on former students from my school, it seems that they still really care about that 4.00 UW despite high course rigor (even in the context of people with better grades but lower course rigor if that makes sense).

9

So is she taking AP Lang or Lit next year? Interestingly, for our school AP histories can be very difficult (can because it’s also very teacher-dependant).

10

Have you talked to other students about the APUSH teachers at your school? At our high school, APUSH is simply a better and more enjoyable class than the non-AP history classes taught in that grade, because the APUSH teachers are all really great! But this might vary at your school.

UCLA admissions seems to have a strong preference for students with both top grades and max rigor. This is apparent when you look at the GPA stats listed in UCLA’s admitted student profiles (here’s 2024, for example).

UC Berkeley is more holistic in admissions, accepting (and rejecting) students in a slightly wider range of GPAs.

4 Likes
11

Your counselor may be the person to ask then. Ours mentioned earlier this year that every single person from our school who got into UCLA last year had a 4.0. (Our school however does relatively well at Berkeley at approx double the overall cal admit rate). Of course, both these schools are reaches so you want to be sure that what you are doing works more broadly as well. As far as top schools are concerned, it seems to be expected that most applicants would do APUSH.

(I know of other publics that do state that higher rigor doesn’t make up for lower grades, but the ones I am aware of are significantly less competitive than these.)

12

Find out how much will be required of you to do well in APUSH. You don’t want it taking so much out of you that you can’t do well in your other classes. Put differently, if you can’t get an A in APUSH, that may not be the worst thing in the world. But if that class may also prevent you from doing well in the other classes, I’d skip it.

This really depends on your school and how it teaches this class.

1 Like
13

For a tiny handful of the highest ranked schools (Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Stanford level) great grades in rigorous classes are necessary, but still are not sufficient for admissions. For a very long list of other very good universities, you should take the classes that make sense for you, do as well as you can, and try not to worry about it.

It is normal to be uncertain at this point regarding your likely major. I was a math major, liked it, and did well with it. Since you are leaning that way I will focus on math for now.

There are a LOT of universities that are very good for mathematics. Also, if you look at highly ranked graduate programs in math, the students in those programs come from a wide range of undergraduate universities.

Also, history is not all that closely related to mathematics.

I would be more concerned about this. You might want to take one more year of the same “foreign” language. I put “foreign” in quotes because it sounds like it is not actually foreign for you. However, I was in the same situation (my “foreign” language was French, but I did high school in Montreal so it wasn’t actually foreign for us either) and top schools in the US did not seem bothered by the fact that my foreign language was not really foreign.

A secret about life: You can’t compete with everyone. Just be yourself. Take the classes that make sense for you. Do as well as you can. Participate in the ECs that make sense for you. Treat people well. Be the best version of you that you can be, and do not worry about it. It will work out just fine one way or another.

Also, when the time comes do not just focus on famous universities. Instead look for colleges and universities that are a good fit for you, pay attention to your budget, and make sure that you apply to safeties. There really are a very large number of colleges and universities in the US where you can get a very good education.

And you can get accepted to very good universities with a B in AP US History, or an A or a B in some other class.

I also might be inclined to ask both your current AP World History teacher and your guidance counselor what they think. Mostly however I would forget about university admissions, and just take the classes that are the right classes for you.

3 Likes
14

Are you planning to do another (4th level) FL? That would be the priority, if scheduling is a challenge at your school.

Posters have suggested you ask how the course is taught and graded- that matters. At DC’s school, there are no points given for late assignments and there are no test retakes, etc. Some schools allow for these, or will up a grade if you score a 5, or whatever. My DC isn’t a particularly strong humanities kid, but worked very hard and scored a 5. It taught them how to tackle a challenging course and how to really dig in and be disciplined. That is worth more than a grade- it’s a skill they honed in on and will need in college. I would gently suggest that you focus on tackling challenges that will get you ready for college, versus focusing on getting into a select few colleges.

If you feel you want tackle the class, tell your counselor. You may need an extra voice to support your choice. Parents are not the ones doing the work, and students, with teacher input, should decide course schedules at this point, IMO. Good luck!

2 Likes
15

Sometimes we have to do what mom wants - they do support us.

But I do think that teachers / counselors who know you should be making the decision.

I sympathize with you but I would add - I’d take college out of the equation because you’re going to go - and it’s likely (statistically) not going to be UCB or UCLA.

But - if you take the class and get an A or B - what’s the worst case - a UCSC/UCR or Cal State school? Or Arizona/Arizona State or Colorado/Colorado State type?

I don’t think you can say rigor is more important for private and GPA for public or vice versa. It depends on the schools.

And for some ECs matter. For others test scores matter (make sure you take an SAT to keep options open - or scholarship money available).

If you don’t get a 4.0, guess what - that’s life. Life is about falling down a bit - and a 3.8 IS NOT falling down.

I’m most concerned that you have just one year of foreign language (even thought it’s level 3) because it’s your native language.

In the end, if you want APUSH, talk to your teacher/counselor and get their assessment but I don’t think it’s your biggest hole.

But I do think - no matter what - you’ll apply to a wide set of colleges and UCLA/UCB or otherwise, you’ll land in a great place - so I wouldn’t panic myself.

In the end, there’s no guaranteed A - no matter the level of class you take.

But sometimes we have to make tradeoffs based on what parents think.

But you also need to remind them - life is stressful enough, you don’t need the “this college” or bust.

There will be many colleges out there - of different size (do you even want huge??), different price points, weather, environments, and more.

And one will fit you well - and if you go to Arizona or Oregon State or UCLA or Occidental - you’ll still have every chance in the world to be a HUGE success.

1 Like
16

To echo the above:

It is not clear to me there are any private colleges in the US where a single B would be a real problem. I certainly think they would all tell you if you feel up for the challenge, go for it, and don’t worry if your grade ends up not perfect. For the most selective colleges, too many imperfect grades could be a problem, but so would not challenging yourself as much as reasonably possible, so I would be very hesitant to ever recommend choosing perfect grades over reasonably challenging yourself as available at your HS if those goals are in conflict.

For in-state publics, I think you really need to rely on your HS counselors for advice. Hopefully they have good data/experience to guide them.

3 Likes
17

She’ll probably take AP Lang, even though it’s the “Junior” level AP English class, her teachers said it’s better to prepare for college writing.

18

Can this be pinned on every college site here!

6 Likes
19

What would your schedule be like without APUSH?

What are you taking this year?
How many hours of sleep do you get per night?
How many hours do you have for non academics (sports, clubs, knitting, job…) and for socializing with friends?

1 Like
20

Calc 3, Ap lang, Ap bio and physics, + elective, currently doing ap world, honours english, ap bc and stats, chem and physics