Parents in denial

Parents Forum
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<p>My S did progressively worse in middle school, and had a total flameout in his freshman year of high school.</p>

<p>He is a very bright kid who was probably bored, and had developed a fondness for video games. Definitely immature.</p>

<p>I had him tested for ADD in middle school; it was borderline and I chose to not have him medicated.</p>

<p>My ex is one of those people who thinks they’re better and smarter than everyone, and he would give this message to S. So I think S had a bit of the attitude that he was somehow above it all.</p>

<p>High School was pretty brutal for us. S would pick up his grades, but whenever we loosened up the reins he would slide back into his bad habits. He had to bring home weekly progress reports. The nadir was when I went into a parent teacher conference and found out he’d hidden his quarterly progress report from me. I was so mad I called him on my cell and told him if I ever saw any video games on his computer, I was going to throw it in the river behind our house (I was a little upset :wink: )</p>

<p>I think that several things helped turn things around for him. One is that he had a couple of teachers that he really respected and wanted them to respect him. They made it clear that they liked him, but that he needed to turn in his assignments like everyone else. Also, during the summer before senior year, we toured some colleges. He was really excited and taken with the possibilities, but we let him know that because of his lackluster academic performance, that some of these were probably not going to accept him.</p>

<p>So he then went on to a totally stellar senior year, made the high honor role every term. Without any prodding from me.</p>

<p>So I guess my message is, you can get him through this, but it takes a lot of effort on the adult’s part (if it is not going to be the parent). I pretty much has to ride his a** the whole time. It was stressful and unpleasant, but ultimately successful. While S did not get into MIT or such a caliber school, he is enrolled in a good engineering program. And he knows that if he does well, (but it will have to be without my prodding) that we’ll help him attend the graduate dream school of his choice.</p>

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<p>yep, nothing but the best for this kid, an only child of older parents. And yes, there were EXTENSIVE forms for his teachers and parents to fill, neuropsych and everything under the sun. No psychiatric diagnosis. Defiance in school not to the point of ODD then. Certainly he never needed to be oppositional or defiant at home since he mainly does what he wants and his parents say he’s doing magnificently. (Mother told me he was behaving perfectly when he returned home the night prior at 4:30am without notifying them. That’s why I talk about “denial”.)</p>

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<p>Here is a radically different diagnosis. Your sister-in-law is raising the exact child she wants – one who won’t leave her or surpass her station in life.</p>

<p>It’s very sad to feel so threatened, but an uneducated, older mother with an only child she deems brilliant may be terrified that he’ll leave her.</p>

<p>From the original post it is clear that she fully supports his behavior. It may have even been her idea in the first place that he is too “advanced” to do repetitious work.</p>

<p>The problem sounds more hers. He sounds like a typical troubled kid. (Sad, and by saying typical I don’t mean it’s not painful – just that these are symptoms we have heard many times before.)</p>

<p>I think the only person you can talk to is your brother. The mother and son are involved in a follie-a-deux and no third party can enter in an influence its dynamics.</p>

<p>If you brother refuses to involve himself, there is absolutely nothing you can do except impress on your nephew that his mother’s strokes aren’t helping him confront life.</p>

<p>Good luck. This is so sad for the boy, but you will probably need to distance yourself.</p>

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<p>Incredible.</p>

<p>Agree with above posters…parents negligent enablers, student lazy & arrogant. All 3 of them need a slap upside the head. </p>

<p>But maybe you can accomplish something by showing them in writing what GPA and so forth are needed as just the FIRST step to getting into a good college.</p>

<p>And he’s headed for reform school, as my mother used to say.</p>

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<p>Here’s another possibility. But first I’ll summarize…not an educational issue (dyslexia, LD, etc.), not psychological (ADD, depression, OCD, ODD, etc)</p>

<p>Aside from the “Fear of failure” concern that may be going on, and the possibility of drinking or drugs, s&x or gangs have been ruled out, how about this one that 15 year old boys can be doing until 4:30 in the morning somewhere: video games.</p>

<p>This one fits the picture spot-on: “Mother told me he was behaving perfectly when he returned home”. Find out how he spends his time, and with whom. That tells you a lot.</p>

<p>Also, I totally agree with mythmom: if the Dad chooses to stay out of the picture, for his kid who is begging for help and attention, then you and the mother can talk 'til you’re blue in the face, but nothing will change.</p>

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<p>I think there are several good points that have been made. If you want to reach your nephew, it would probably work best to go around the parents and make a deal with him directly. (There’s really not enough time to educate mom and dad.) Ask him if he is thinking seriously about college and if he wants your help to do this. If he is willing to commit some time to meet you, or work over the phone, that is the first step. If he’s not ready, you can’t really go farther, because he has to “own” some of the process. He does have a year to turn things around; he won’t be put in high-track classes sophomore year because of his grades, and this is a talking point; does he want to stay at the level that is so unchallenging? </p>

<p>If he is ready to talk, set some goals. Does he want to go to your state flagship, for example? Show him the Naviance record from schools like his. He needs to learn some basic truths about GPAs at colleges. State schools generally have a strict GPA cutoff, as you know. Colleges don’t buy into this “brilliant but unchallenged” stuff - in fact, that is one of the least favorite groups to admit because that kind of kid doesn’t know how to do college level work and is not likely to graduate. Hard facts and figures can come from the acceptance/denial reports on CC or the colleges’ own data.</p>

<p>His parents are not aware of how college admissions work, but he can learn a lot on his own, if that’s what he wants. What kind of GPA would he need in the upcoming years to get to an acceptable level for a state school? Have him go home, do the math, and think some more. The next step would be summer school and taking the PSAT as a sophomore in fall. I did turn one of my kids around with a program like this, but since these kids are such know-it-alls at 15, the steps had to be aligned with his constrained perceptions. This is really difficult to do as an outsider, but I applaud your efforts and wish you all the best.</p>

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<p>[qyote] …but are convinced he’d get into a very good university like MIT[equote]. Ha, I am still laughing over that quote from an early post. Truly MIT is a longshot even for students with dedication and near-perfect stats. </p>

<p>In the case of OP’s nephew, it does sound like there are big problems. Possibly even drugs (or hopefully just video games). </p>

<p>I recently did hear of a case where a freshman did poorly first semester and turned things around after switching into honors classes. So parents should know that improvement is possible if kids get the right attitude. It’s worth discussing the issue with guidance counselors.</p>

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<p>Yes, the short term goal is to get him back to normal work habit.</p>

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<p>The best predictor of future success is past performance.</p>

<p>Colleges know this.</p>

<p>Clearly this kid’s mom does not.</p>

<p>Brilliant kids don’t get D’s. Perfectly behaved kids don’t stay out until 4:30 am. </p>

<p>This mom is in major denial, or she wants her kid to be dependent on her for life.</p>

<p>This may sound drastic, but my brother’s stepson went to military boarding school for 8th & 9th grade, at his choice. The kid was in honors programs in school and had no behavior problems, but his parents’ divorce was very messy and the kid was looking for a way to get out of being in the middle of his parents’ arguments (its a long story). The kid thought the military sounded like fun. He went for 2 years, next year he is going back to public school. This military school offered AP classes and a sky-high college admission rate. If you could convince the mom that her son would be going on a big adventure and the school would nourish his “brilliance” and he wouldn’t be bored and unchallenged, maybe the military boarding school would knock some sense into him.</p>

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<p>there’s a lot of interesting suggestions here</p>

<p>back to the core: what fcan thr OP do about the nephew?</p>

<p>As somone who is lucky enough to have a brother who reaches out to my wild child . . . I go with oldfort’s suggestion to go direct with the nephew: “I would discuss his grades and ask him why he is getting such horrible grades, but wouldn’t take all that bull crap from him. I would tell it as is. I would then also explain to him what it would take for him to get into a college. Even if he is not sure if it’s the route for him, it’s good to keep that option open.” NB: doing it calmly and clearly.</p>

<p>I’d add to tell him that he can ALWAYS depend on you for help dealing with life. Life can be tough for a kid -especially with parents not helping him -and it’s gold for him to know that he has someone to count on.</p>

<p>From what you describe I’m fairly sure that attempting to intervene with the parents will not work . . you can give it a try, if for no other reason than to know that you’ve done The Right Thing.</p>

<p>That combo: kind loving direct talks with the kid and with the parents - is probably all you can do.</p>

<p>If lucky, the kid will migrate your way.</p>

<p>Best of luck!!!</p>

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<p>I don’t let my college kids when they are home stay out until 4:30. If they are not coming home at a decent hour, they can spend the night at a friends’. </p>

<p>This isn’t a flop house.</p>

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<p>Regarding the MIT hopes: my D reminded me today that 2 National Merit Finalists from her HS applied to MIT this year (one who had also scored a perfect 36 on the ACT & had scored an 800 on the math section of the SATs as an 8th grader for a talent search) and neither one was accepted or waitlisted. The MIT acceptance rate this year was 9.7%; intel science winners are routinely rejected. </p>

<p>Aside from the dysfunctional behavior occurring in the young man’s life, he also needs to realize that even if he did have a 4.0 and a 2400 SAT, there’s no guarantee that he’d get into any of the lottery schools. But he’s doing a great job of assuring he has absolutely no shot at even belonging in the admissions pool. Not only at MIT, but with a 2.0 or less gpa, not even at a state flagship. </p>

<p>Agree with all the above posters that someone needs to figure out what the underlying behavior is that’s causing the downward spiral (whether it be drugs, alcohol, video games or s$x) Since Mom isn’t going to step up to the plate, it’s going to be either Dad or the aunt.</p>

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<p>Stay out of it.</p>

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<p>I am not sure why many posters believe that a 15 year old as OP described must have ADHD, ADD, learning disability etc. I thought there’re plenty of arrogant, lazy and unmotivated teens around, 2 of which reside in my home. If I don’t watch over them, they’d have all F and come home at 5 am. My other two kids don’t, so it’s 50/50 in my experience.</p>

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<p>I almost fell into a similar rut. I had always been labeled an advanced student, throughout middle school I was placed in the advanced routes and I effortlessly achieved the highest academic accolades. I probably would still be like this if I hadn’t been admitted to a high achieving boarding school. My first quarter my grades fell to a B+/A- average, by no means poor (especially in such a competitive environment) but the fall forces me to recognize the intelligence of my peers and the need for effort. </p>

<p>I consider the most important element of my transformation to be the anecdotal story my parents always mentioned concerning my uncle. He had been an individual with a similar aptitude as I was blessed with. He scored a perfect on the pre-recentered SAT and was a star football player. He was recruited by personal letters from Yale, Harvard, Columbia, and Cornell. Yet, he had never had a reason to work. He nearly failed out his first quarter at his college and never really recovered. He now works a job far below his potential and barely makes ends meet. I suppose an experience like that forced my parents to be proactive in their approach to me.</p>

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<p>This is so interesting. I think Mythmom is on to something, possibly. I have seen similar situations to what you’re describing and it really makes you bang your head against a wall. What the kid isn’t getting (and the parents), is that each year of school is an opportunity to learn not just information, but habits that are useful for life. One of those habits is work. Another is searching for the lessons that teachers actually have to share, not just evaluating them on their performance. After all, in the long run, it’s the student’s responsibility (and gift) to learn, not just the teacher’s to teach. </p>

<p>Another question: Is he (like so many) obsessed with computer games and cell phone messages?</p>

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<p>Can I get this in bronze?</p>

<p>My vote goes with the group who want to look into this kid’s video game habit.</p>

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<p>I think the solution is going to lie with the parents not with the nephew. Why is he going to work hard/stress himself over school/or even exert any type of effort when his parents are (i) letting him do whatever he wants without putting up any kind of fight – i.e. being out at all hours; and (ii) saying that he’s einstein, he’s gifted etc. when he has a D average. Obviously a D average is good enough for that household – he knows it and will continue to slide by. Things will only change if the parents can see the light and start setting some limits and expectations – i.e. demanding a certain GPA, setting a curfew etc. I don’t think it’s too late; just because they haven’t done it before doesn’t mean they can’t do it now – sure he will be miserable and complain for a while but he’ll get used to it when he has no choice.</p>

<p>I think the OP should attempt to get through to both parents. Go out to dinner with both of them, bring some college guides and show them what the average GPAs, SATs etc. are. Make them realize that even if he is a genius, he has to show it on paper in order to be considered by any school. I think this may work better with the parents than with the nephew, who frankly may not be thinking about college yet or may have some misguided notion that he can pull it out when he needs to; I have known more than one student who seems to think that if they turn over a new leaf in the first semester of senior yr, that will be enough – and then they were shocked when having 3 yrs of Cs and 1 semester of straight As didn’t get them into NYU, Georgetown etc. I would think the parents are capable of longer term thinking/planning moreso than a 15 yr old.</p>

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<p>I was responding to with LD as a proposed issue because that is where my experience lies- I have seen a lot of kids who have that complicate the boredom of school.</p>

<p>When you have parents that have a vested interest in their child " succeeding" without actually requiring evidence that they are doing so- or when one parent is behaving that way and the other is showing approval by their non participation- then something else is going on.</p>

<p>Not quite munchausens but trying to get some need of the parent filled by an achievement or " imagined" accomplishment of the child.</p>

<p>I have seen something somewhat similar before- with a couple ( one having a grad degree), who had been telling themselves and their child for years how brilliant they were ( the oldest one of 4). When he went off to college- they expected that he would have the pick of the Ivies- ( he did well in school as well-but not * amazingly* well).
Unfortunately- although he applied to 5 or 6 Ivies, he was not accepted ( or even waitlisted), at any- even with the form letter- that they took to be a likely letter :frowning: but he still had a couple back ups just in case thank goodness.</p>

<p>I think these particular parents have probably shut the door on getting their minds changed by reasoning. I suggest reverse psychology-or an intervention- or just getting really good at smiling and nodding ( which is what I had to do - with the " ivy bound" kid)
( maybe point them toward CC?)</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the suggestions. Your insight really helps.</p>

<p>I won’t be surprised if video gaming is how he spends a large portion of his time. Games are more likely than drugs, alcohol, gang or s_x. Pot is possible but computer gaming is more probable. </p>

<p>However I can’t be sure because when I gently asked the parents, they said they don’t believe in “snooping” on their son (which quite frankly floored me, because he was then only 13 or 14). When I suggested that it’s not snooping to exert some parental guidance, they said…yes again…“he’s so smart” therefore he knows what’s the right thing to do. (And indeed he did, he went from B’s and C’s to almost all D’s.)</p>

<p>Frankly, I don’t see how parents can effectively parent a child whom they see as much smarter and more knowledgeable than themselves (ie. they bought into their child’s shortsighted, unrealistic juvenile perspective.) And these are NOT people of low intelligence, even if they didn’t attend college.</p>

<p>As to other family members talking to the boy, he is pretty non-communicative to anyone outside his immediate circle of friends. I suppose that’s not unusual for a teenager. </p>

<p>Can he be encouraged to take community college courses while in HS? Answer: This has been suggested, but he is immature. He’d say “Cool! So and so may take it. We can hang out together…” But he shows no real interest in the work. </p>

<p>Can he be motivated by talks or brochures of college? I’ve tried this. But again, his interest is at a VERY superficial level, with thoughts of things probably inappropriate to express. But then, he won’t be the first 15-year-old like that. </p>

<p>Then why did they mention MIT? Seems like they think it’s just another step in the path for one so bright. It was not mentioned after thought, planning, ambition or even interest. </p>

<p>ag725 says: “I think the solution is going to lie with the parents not with the nephew.”
I agree.
He is young, spoiled, cocky and immature. I thought it’d be easier to talk to the parents, and am surprised at the level of denial.</p>