<p>Looks like collegeorbust is trying to get the thread back on topic. That would be lovely.</p>
<p>Came back from a weekend trip and saw this thread has been all over the map. Thanks to collegeorbust and jym626 for bringing it back.</p>
<p>In answer to kind posters’ questions: He had evaluation for learning disabilities etc done a couple years ago. The report was over 20 pages, very detailed. I read it but don’t have a copy, and can’t remember the details. I recall that he had very good cognitive skills, comprehension, long term, short term and working memory (not sure the exact terms). Somewhere I remember that there was a problem with his attitude, of not wanting to put in effort, even during the testing. It was recommended that he try to get into more advanced courses in high school. But when the time came, he didn’t ‘test in’, which he blamed on his middle-school teachers.</p>
<p>His parents are hardworking people…just typical good folks, good citizens. His father is my step-brother. They had a struggling business for many years, so my nephew spent summers with me and my children, and I naturally grew terribly fond of him. I love him more than the kids of my natural siblings who live far away. However, my family has since moved away so I don’t see him as often. The times I visit, conversations are not easy. I listen and never lecture him, but still…Well, he’s after all a teenage boy… he answers opened ended questions with a shrug…</p>
<p>Because of the step-family relationship, I am super-cautious. I never criticize or show disapproval for ANY thing. At the most, I make gentle suggestions. </p>
<p>My SIL is very defensive, and only tells me ‘good’ things about her son. Eg. “He’s too smart so he’s bored in school and is getting all D’s”. To her, it shows his brilliance—a good thing. She asks for help about how to convince his teachers the same, whereupon I suggest that he convinces them by showing he knows/can do the work. About the boy’s 4:30 am return home on a school night…she was talking about how his father didn’t get enough sleep that night, and this fact accidentally slipped out. She mostly tries to build him up, speaks super well of him, and sincerely believes that parents shouldn’t “snoop” on their children’s internet use. (She doesn’t use the computer herself.)</p>
<p>It’s not that I want him to go to college. I don’t believe college is the right path for everyone. But he himself has always talked about going to a good university, and he is certainly bright enough. </p>
<p>As to whether he has EC’s and other talents: He does no EC’s at all right now. He did judo for a few years when he was younger, but as he became a teen, he didn’t like the discipline required. Years ago, he took guitar lessons but only for a few months. He’s not interested in continuing. He spends a lot of time hanging out with friends on a some street. My SIL says his friends are nice kids (again she always has to say good things.) She doesn’t know what they do, and he just says “we hang out.” He plays computer games.</p>
<p>What is he good at? He’s pretty good at thinking of ways to make money, though I don’t know how much he has actually earned. Like standing in line for hours to buy the latest something-or-other to sell on ebay. It didn’t work out because it was either not the real thing, or ?? I also know he tries his hand at computer hardware, like adding onto a computer. My SIL says he’s great at it but she can’t give details. When I ask him about it, trying to show enthusiasm and interest in what he likes and does, he just shrugged.</p>
<p>I really appreciate everyone’s ideas and support.</p>
<p>It sounds like he almost needs a “mentor”–someone who isn’t a parent and who knows a lot about some subject he is interested in and can demonstrate that a) it’s possible to make a life doing what you like to do and b) it is necessary to buckle down and learn something to make the possibilities a reality.</p>
<p>Computer hardware? Code writing? Game creation?</p>
<p>I would rather sent PM to calimami but her profile is blocked, (hey how do you do that?)</p>
<p>to me the kid is normal, healthy, friendly, popular kid. hanging out is the major activity for 15-16-17 sh.
outside of the CC land, kids won’t usually start worrying about colleges until fall of senior year.
his spotty interest in martial art or guitar playing is so very common. It does not mean he won’t like Jackie Chan or never listen to music, right?
wooo, hijack hijack I’m outa here!
I won’t worry about it.
hey if his cousin (your kid) is older and already in college, let him visit by himself when school is on. no, auntie you aren’t going.
I know once a slacker Rhodes scholar that DID the trick more than anything else.</p>
<p>I am understanding less and less of this thread…</p>
<p>And I am a native English speaker. Lord.</p>
<p>I think bears and dogs is telling us he is singing his swan song, mommusic :)</p>
<p>As an aside, I’m also an Asian immigrant, 1st generation, and English is not my native language. </p>
<p>My nephew, though, is American/white/Caucasian, he is the son of my step-brother. My mom and step-dad married when I was 26. So I’ve known my nephew since he was born. </p>
<p>His parents have mentioned taking advanced courses at the CC this summer. So far, he has shown no interest.</p>
<p>As to a previous post that it’s totally normal for 15, 16, 17 year olds to hang out all day…I didn’t grow up here so may not be expert…but I don’t see that of all teens. As to him being “popular, friendly”…er…he’s popular with the small group of 4, but there had been serious social problems which I don’t want to go into. And no, he doesn’t have Asperger’s and is not on the autistic spectrum. Just anger issues. No, not diagnosed as ODD. He had therapy for a few years. </p>
<p>If he is happy the way things are, I’d worry less and accept that he has to find his own path. But he’s not happy; if there’s a mood called contemptuous, that’d be his reigning mood.</p>
<p>What makes teenagers (or people) feel so contemptuous? ‘they’re all stupid’, ‘why can’t my classmates understand it the first time the teacher said it? Morons!’ “But this is SO stupid I can’t believe I’ve to do it”. No wonder his mom thinks he’s too smart.</p>
<p>Are your teens like that?</p>
<p>^no, not others here in CC.
but yes, mine and what I know commonly around here are like that.
how do you know those four are the only friends he got?
if he has four very close friends he grew up with and still together, that is actually a good thing than being wide and shallow only for the moment relationships because it is convenient, not from his heart.
Have you ever spied on them what they are talking or up to?
It is hard to judge if you only know certain way of teen’s behavior ( er… Asian way) But his mom would even notice or heard from hospital, police or other nosy community member if they are really up to no good.</p>
<p>It is a long story but here public school system sifts kids at K, 6th, again for 9th grades.
by the time the kids get to be 6th grade and their parents are not pushy and the kid is “smart but lazy” they are set to be in “too stupid” classes.
teachers, classmates are really really out of the world stupid but not their own fault (again long story none of CC parents couldn’t relates to)
and the smart lazy kid could have avoided this fate if only he behaved better and/or tested 0.005 point better when they were four or ten.
It is a dead-end and is his own fault but how they’d know?</p>
<p>how did you get so good at enghish, are you in California, so is this kid?
Is there possibility to switch school ( like that Bard HS or charter school where everyone can take advanced class, there is this mom from SF who keep bragging about her kid’s charter school you could get in by rotary not by the testing being on top 100 NW or something )?
It might bomb (it did for my kid) but it might work miracle (done for many others)</p>
<p>how big and grown is he? done with pube or still not quite out of it? 6th 7th grade to 10th grade are, to some boys, like having endless PMS.
sometimes nature have to take its course.
Don’t believe everything they say but many many advice giving books are out there if you want to feel you are not alone.
it’s also a good way to learn how America thinks. gawd…</p>
<p>don’t believe what I say either, since everyone here wants to put this boy on anti depressant or Ritalin or something, they have to be right, no?</p>
<p>There is NOTHING you can do. If a teenager KNOWS he is right and prefers to have fun over doing well in school, good luck turning him around. This is the type of child that needs to learn through the school of hard knocks. His attitude does not mean that he is unhappy - it means that all adults (especially his parents and aunt) don’t know anything and he is being contemptuous. He is never going to listen. He is just the kind of kid who will either hit rock bottom and stay there (my friend’s sister did and is still there, even though bright, articulate, etc., and is on welfare) or will learn what it takes to succeed in this world and will turn himself around by himself. All you can do is tell him you love him and watch from afar. As for your SIL saying only good things, it sounds as though she knows things aren’t good, but is certainly not going to air their dirty laundry in public. Instead, she is making excuses to save face. The fact that they are mentioning CC tells me this. They know there is a problem. They have given him counseling, had him tested, etc., so they know, but he has no drive or ambition, and that isn’t anything anybody can instill in someone else. They have to have it for themselves. Good luck. I know it hurts, but we cannot make decisions for them, just love them.</p>
<p>there is something you can do!
give your SIL her own computer used or cheap and show how much fun it is !
lead her to CC and parents forum, discus about food or michele obama’s dress, before she knows it, she would be going to college prep forum, scholarship, etc, like I wondered into (horrors!!) parents turf.
maybe she’d get some picture. I mean she can’t buy SAT if she doesn’t know how, nowadays. Or your brother take care of everything like my SIL is?
though my SIL now send me e-mail. once in the year, or so.</p>
<p>Katy - since you’ve acknowledged extensive testing, can you share his IQ? I’m just curious how many horses are in the seemingly lazy and bored engine. :)</p>
<p>He may be unmotivated, he may be a perfectionist… there are other possibilities beyond LDs/ADHD. He may just feel entitled. Not knowing how “smart” he really is makes it more difficult for us to guage.</p>
<p>To mnmom62, I believe it’s 115 or 118, something like that. He’s not a perfectionist. He’s unmotivated about academics, he’s a bit more motivated about money-making schemes, like standing in line for the latest gadget to sell on ebay, but not all that motivated either.</p>
<p>bears & dogs…nobody here wants to put the boy on antidepressants or Ritalin. We are just trying to give advice, that the OP came here for.</p>
<p>You are not being helpful by making snarky comments about “CC parents.” You are a CC parent too, if you are here.</p>
<p>Not gonna lie there are too many pages in this thread for me to have read. Did read the first 3 pages or so though.</p>
<p>I figure out anything better to do with this kid other than to show him cold hard stats. At 15, I know for a fact that there are kids who get higher IQs than that, and there has to be some stats on that you can show him. I did read some other suggestions that you should show him the stats of students who get accepted to places like MIT. Hell, show him the stats of people who get into the state flagships, and then maybe even the lower tiers. Then show him the stats of people who go to CC.</p>
<p>You gotta be rough on this kid. It’s no use helping him keep up this ego thing, a good hard jab in the gut with some information might make him think a bit. Ask him questions like, “If you’re so smart, how come you can’t beat the game that is high school?” or “If you’re so smart, why do you even want to go to college? Why haven’t you done something revolutionary right now?”. If he’s spewing BS, make sure you tell him that it is so! Ask him what he’s actually planning on doing with his life and why he thinks he can do it.</p>
<p>This is coming from someone not quite like your nephew, but I was definitely deluded about going to college. I thought I had it figured out that I was a great athlete and that I’d definitely get a scholarship. I had no idea how people even got scholarships! A bit of information in that field might have made me think a bit and fixed the problems sooner. In my opinion, it’s that people don’t know how the system works and they think that something will just magically happen because you have talent.</p>
<p>Honestly, your goal is to make him think. If you can do that, you will succeed in fixing this kid, because clearly he’s not an idiot.</p>
<p>EDIT: Decided to read the second to last page to see if I could gather some other info. I see that you’ve decided to be very gentle. Well, I think in some way that could work, as I noted above you must get him to think about this on his own. Perhaps being harsh on him will not do the trick, and would probably make him simply not want to think about it because it would make him feel bad. So maybe being gentle with him can be a good thing in this situation. Maybe try to instill some sort of competitiveness in him, something like ‘how dare you let those other kids who pretend to be smart and get good grades make themselves seem better than you are??’</p>
<p>Ultimately, you know how to go about doing that since you know him best. But stick to some stats and facts, and ask questions and maybe try to get to the root of a few of the problems. Like I said, in my opinion, your mission is simply to get him to think about this for himself.</p>
<p>Agree with hadsed–the goal is to get the kid to wake up and think.</p>
<p>A couple of my kids (I’ve had 4 graduate from HS now) seemed to think for a while that they could get by on their good looks or talent…they were smart but didn’t want to dot the I’s & cross the T’s because they “knew that stuff”. I sympathized but pointed out that some other kid (perhaps not as brilliant) would get the grades and the acceptance and the scholarship, not them, and then how would they feel? One of mine really liked to sleep late and I sincerely believe if I hadn’t been around to drag him out of bed some mornings, he would have been a habitual truant and flunked out of HS. Really. Sorry, but that doesn’t happen in our family.</p>
<p>It took a while, but they came around. All got good scholarships to the school of their choice. (Good schools, not HYPS etc.) I’ll stop here cause the idea is not to brag, just to point out that some kids have to be persuaded more than others. They just think about today, and can’t see the future from where they are, cause they’re kids. Our job is to give them the benefit of our wisdom. ;)</p>
<p>bears & dogs–no one here is saying there is anything wrong with NOT going to college and instead going to a vocational school to train to be whatever your heart desires (if it requires training). Carpenter, plumber, nanny, hostess in a tea room…some people like low-stress jobs with regular hours that leave them time for other things. Money is not important. The point is, without an education, there will be no choices in your life.</p>
<p>And if this kid is getting Ds, he is not getting an education.</p>
<p>I’m a school psychologist who in 25 years has worked with hundreds of kids like the one described. My observations are that the majority of mothers of kids like this have a strong instinct to protect their sons from anxiety and failure. As a result they have a difficult time telling them no, making them work hard, calling them on poor character traits such as lying, selfishness, etc. They explain away failure as the fault of everyone but the son. They don’t appear to do this with their daughters to anywhere near the extent as their sons. I am not trying to paint mothers in a bad light, only to point out that they have this natural instinct that is stronger in some than in others. Homes with weak or no male figures only exasperate the tendency.<br>
You hit the nail on the head when you said she is reinforcing the most undesirable natural tendencies of adolescent males…namely narcissism. The only way this kid is going to grow up is for either the father to step up and take control of the situation or for the kid to get out of the house and away from his mother.</p>
<p>^
Gardna
hey, that must be the LA kingpin!
do you know the whole story?
I can tell you if you want to hear but something tells me better not
at least it prove that I am not ■■■■■■■■, though the said guy assumed my kid does not exist.</p>
<p>I have known a few nannies in my time (not for my kids) and none of them were Asian (American, Swedish, or Brazilian.) Likewise with waitresses & similar jobs. I was actually thinking of a woman at the last hotel restaurant we were at, who obviously enjoyed her job (breakfast!) and was efficient and cheerful at it.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t you agree it is better to have such a job because you WANT to, and not because you were a HS dropout who couldn’t get the job you were actually better suited for? The OP (to get BACK to the topic!) is worried her nephew thinks money falls from the sky if you are born “smart.” He doesn’t understand the value of hard work for what you want.</p>
<p>I have to say that nothing in this thread has changed my first impression, based on the statement that the boy is “smarter than all his teachers.” I think the family has a victim attitude, and that everything will be blamed on somebody else. I don’t think there is much the OP can do–I’ve seen a family like this, and the attitude is passed down from generation to generation–the members of the family are smart, but they fail because somebody else has it in for them, etc, etc, etc. They end up going from job to job, because (of course) they are smarter than their supervisors. There may eventually be some event that will wake this kid up, but I doubt that it will be advice from anybody. Any advice that suggests that his problems are of his own (or his parents’) making will just make them think that you are also one of the people trying to hold him back. I wish I had some better ideas.</p>
<p>The only thing I know how to do when talking to kids raised to be impressed with their own intelligence, yet contemptuous of others, is to ask them a few pointed, rhetorical questions that cause them to go in upon themselves. Since he has been trained not to listen or respect anyone else’s answers, at least you can teach him to ask himself the right questions without answering to you, because he won’t. You’re his aunt and he craves your head-patting affection still.</p>
<p>I can imagine how disappointed you were when the little glimmers you caught (from the Mom) turned out to be non-starters when you raised the topics with him. I really think he’s doing nothing, or less than nothing, and she’s grabbing at straws. So don’t pretend to be interested in him when he’s got not much to offer. </p>
<p>But I feel you can mirror back reality to him so he can think about it a bit. If he’s a nephew you love, I like you would not be able to walk away from him at this age forever and say, ‘tough luck’ because to me what sounds right around the corner is drinking and drugs with the bored/boring friends, if that hasn’t already begun. </p>
<p>COnversation might sound like this:
“Hey, nice t-shirt. How’s school these days?”
“Bleh, boring.”
“Boring? Hmm. So what are you doing about that?”
"Me? Nothing. What can I do? Everyone there’s a jerk (–the other kids in class, the teacher, the scheduling system…)
“I would hate to be bored all day.”
“Yah, it sucks.”
“Did you think anyone’s ever going to make it interesting for you?”
“Sure, why not, that’s their job.”
“No, everyone’s busy making it interesting for themself. C/mon, you didn’t know that yet?”
“No.”
“Well, that’s what people are doing. They don’t have time to liven it up for you. That’s your job. Why would stuff that’s cute at age 8 still work at age 14? Anyway, you’re boring me right now. I find this conversation boring. I’m going to get a soda. Oh, and if you want to hear how to make school less suck-y just call me at home (or text, or email me…whatever you think he uses as first line of communication that you can do, too) and we can talk. I’m always here for you. Think about it…” (I always end conversations with bright kids ‘think about it’ because they do.) </p>
<p>Then the NEXT conversation (IF it ever occurs) would have to be initiated by him, because he wants to know what you had in mind. He has to come to you. (Then you can suggest EC’s, books, whatever you think is better than being a mall-rat). Right now, if you try to tell him things that are interesting to do, he’s not interested. </p>
<p>Essentially you are telling him that you – his doting aunt!-- now find him boring, then leaving him with that puddle to deal with in his own time. You’re telling him you’re available for a return conversation. You’re not commenting on the parents at all, so using your aunt-position to maximum effect.</p>
<p>Just my approach. Think about it…</p>