<p>I’ve often suggested to Fang Jr that he try dictation software, but he never will. However, his typing is good enough that it doesn’t seem to be an issue.</p>
<p>Because we’re homeschoolers, I’ve spent tons of time with Fang Jr helping him rewrite his work. He still inserts fluff sentences, but is getting better about recognizing them and eliminating them. But really, as with ShawSon, it’s all about practice, practice, practice. He gets better at writing by writing. Even if he has to leave college after the next quarter, which is an increasing possibility I’m afraid, he will have gotten benefit from writing all the required papers.</p>
<p>Like ShawSon, Fang Jr has trouble scanning for relevant information. In his case, because he’s a history major, he needs to scan actual books. It’s not something that comes easily to him.</p>
When my son was learning cursive in 3rd grade, it was painful for all of us. His hand was gripping the pencil so hard that it ached, and he routinely tore the paper with the force of the pencil. He was trying so hard to get the letters right (in fact, he wanted them perfect), but he just wasn’t developmentally ready for cursive. He still can’t write in cursive, except to sign his name.</p>
<p>My S has Disorder of Written Expression with difficultly physically forming the letters, and difficulty organizing his thoughts to write a coherent paper. Interestingly his spelling, punctuation, and grammar are excellent. Back in 3rd grade, though, he couldn’t spell at all. He was completely incapable of learning/memorizing the spelling words. Within the next two years, though, that part of his brain clicked on, and now he is an excellent speller. But, oh, 3rd grade was a bad year… :(</p>
<p>He tried dictation software, when he was in 3rd or 4th grade, but it didn’t seem to be the right solution for him. At this point, he just relies on typing. (One of his accommodations starting back in 3rd grade is to be able to type everything.)</p>
<p>Regarding the content of this written assignments, his HS teachers were pretty good about letting him focus on shorter, but well-written assignments. I always encouraged him to hand them in early (and often), and revise them based on the feedback. At this point he is an ok writer, but it still takes a really long time to produce any kind of written product.</p>
<p>Shawbridge, I can see how the moot court situation could motivate a competitive kid to improve his writing. Unfortunately, my son is willing to settle for “good enough”. On the one hand, I can’t really blame him, given how long it takes him to produce the work, but I wish he wouldn’t “settle”.</p>
<p>Shawbridge, you mentioned a “speech delay”. Do you mean that he started talking late? Or do you mean that he has delay in his speech when having a conversation? If you ask my son a question, even if he knows the answer, there is always a delay in his response. This is sometimes a problem in the classroom: the teacher asks a question, he raises his hand, she calls on him, and then he can’t get the answer out fast enough. When he was in MS and HS we explained this to all of his teachers, and they were pretty good about it, but now that he’s in college, who knows?</p>
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When my son had his neuro-psych eval in 9th grade, his processing speed was 2nd percentile. When he retook those tests in November, it is 23rd percentile. We don’t know if we should attribute that to the vagaries of testing, or to an actual improvement, although we do think we have observed a general improvement also.</p>
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Yep, internet research takes a really long time for S. He’s not able to quickly recognize what is useful, and what isn’t.</p>
<p>Son has no problem expressing himself in writing - he is just terrible at the physical act of writing. He forms is letters in such an odd way and it takes forever. I remember bringing up at an elem school conference that he couldn’t write in cursive at all. Everyone just said he won’t need to, he can just use a computer when he’s grown.</p>
<p>On the SAT writing part, we probably should have petitioned for extra time. He said he couldn’t get all of his thoughts down before the time ran out. His handwrting is so terrible that if I had been the SAT grader, I’d have taken off 100 points for just having to read it. But he got a 700 in writing which was certainly high enough for any schools to which he applied. (Extra time to get a higher score would have only been for parental bragging rights, which is covered on other thread.)</p>
<p>DragonLady, ShawSon spoke at 9 months and full sentences at one year. He couldn’t walk but was telling the other kids on play dates to get the ball. When he was in kindergarten, he would know the answers to every question and would always have his hand up and, when called upon, there would be a 45 second delay before words started emerging. He was exactly like your son. I asked him if he knew what he was going to say when he had his hand up or had to think up an answer when he was called upon. He said he knew the answer when he put his hand up. But, the delay was huge and while kids would wait for him once they knew he was smart, adults (like soccer coaches) often didn’t. </p>
<p>Now, the delay is much shorter and is not noticeable unless you know about it. However, he has taught himself strategies to mask it. He often starts with filler words or a filler sentence. He probably should learn active listening (note to Shawbridge: mention to ShawSon). </p>
<p>Moreover, in Moot Court, it would take him 14 minutes to present the same opening it would take his partner 10 minutes to present. Words just don’t come out quickly.</p>
<p>Remarkably, and in the same spirit that probably led him to Moot Court, he has joined his college Debate Team. The format: One member of two-person Team 1 leads off by presenting the question and offering his/her argument for 8 minutes, then one member of Team 2 has to immediately stand up and make a 7 minute rebuttal, to which the other member of Team 1 makes a 7 minute rebuttal and the final member of Team 2 rebuts the rebuttal. When you are on Team 2 (or the rebutter of Team 1), you need to think and speak quickly. My son is superb at framing and responding to arguments, but speed? At the moment, he gets strong marks for the substance of his argument but weak marks for speaking. He’s being coached by his teammates on how to use his slowness to appear thoughtful and intelligent (apparently a very successful debater has used that strategy). Other than speed-reading or scanning, I can’t think of an activity that plays so directly to a weakness but like Moot Court, he loves it and his desire to win will probably enable him to improve in that dimension. </p>
<p>Does anyone have any thoughts on how to get better at scanning and finding information?</p>
<p>Same here! Mine spoke very clearly, and with a tremendous vocabulary. Now-a-days he responds in monosyllables and grunts, and rarely conveys any actual information, but when he was toddler - he was quite impressive .</p>
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<p>Yep.</p>
<p>I am very impressed that your son has chosen an activity that “plays so directly to his weakness”. It really sounds like he has what it takes to address and improve on his area of weakness.</p>
<p>Are you familiar with the studies that show that those people who believe the brain is an elastic organ (i.e. you can become smarter) are more likely to overcome obstacles (like LDs) than those who believe they can’t “become smarter”? Your son is an excellent example of the former.</p>
<p>The accommodations suggested for S are: being able to use a computer for tests, being given oral exams in conjuction with the written tests, extra time, and tutoring in the use of a writing computer program called Inspirations. </p>
<p>DL, I will PM you about your S’s accommodations.</p>
<p>DragonLady, sentences were longer at age 4 than now, for sure, though intellectual stimulation is what ShawSon (and I love) and he can be brought out of hibernation by an intellectual challenge. At a dinner party (that we more or less forced him to attend), we sat him next to a mediator who is a law professor (and unbeknownst to us taught constitutional law for 10 years). I mentioned that my son had argued as a debate topic at a women’s college the thesis that Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided on constitutional grounds. The law professor lit up and went into Socratic mode and they had a 45 minute conversation, with extended argumentation. Fun to watch. [ShawSon had chosen the topic to see if he could get people riled up, but it turns out that he ended up not using it.]</p>
<p>I do know the work by Carol Dweck on mindset. Good stuff. I’m not sure ShawSon chose debate to address a weakness, but probably instead because he loves to argue, loves to think logically, and LOVES to compete and win. Though he’s a big guy, he’ll never be a competitive athlete and will have to use his mind to win. My guess is that his ultimate career will be something quite competitive. [When he was in high school thinking about careers, he said, “I want to be the non-evil liberal version of Karl Rove. You manage a campaign and at the end you know whether you’ve won or lost.”] Given his likely motivation, he will have to address his weakness to be a high-ranking debater and, my guess is, he’ll give it a major effort and he will improve.</p>
<p>Scanning and research is where I shine. I can get lost in research on any level. Remember fiche film? Loved it. I can read incredibly fast and as some might note, can type a blue streak. IF the need exists, I can also edit (often should, often don’t on these threads). </p>
<p>This is what I was saying about teachers/coaches etc not really getting it when people struggle in something that comes too easily to themselves. However, I also took a speed reading class one summer and I think (even though at the time I thought it was a waste) I easily skip words and read through the middle. Sister just got a kindle and says that it drives her nuts to come to something where she should remember a factoid from several pages earlier, but you can’t “flip” back through the pages. (Apparently it also bugs her that you can’t physically see where in the book you are - there’s no satisfaction in seeing the left side get thicker as the right becomes thinner) I imagine a kindle would not be a good buy for a kid with scanning issues.</p>
<p>As for books and using their endnotes/footnotes to find sources - I do that all the time as well. Maybe there are other more efficient ways to find primary sources, but I think it saves me a lot of time from looking in the wrong place (which I will find equally interesting). And too, I love looking at what other people cite just to see if theyve concluded as I would. This is especially useful, I find, when mainstream media start citing recent studies about this or that. </p>
<p>Downside is I can be easily distracted. Have you seen the commercial for the new google-like site? That, in a 30-second nutshell, is my brain while not on medication. Sometimes it’s fun and other times it eats time like no one’s business.</p>
<p>Once again, I’m going to have to quit my job so I can keep up with this thread:)</p>
<p>I noticed the rush topic from this AM. I was one of the sorority girls back in the day. It varies a lot among different schools and different groups, but at my small midwestern school we were pretty “normal”. I found it a lot of fun and still keep up with a few people. Ironically my D has no interest in going through rush (and it’s not a big deal at her school), I have encouraged her to just to meet some people, but she won’t take the bait.</p>
<p>All of the trouble with writing sounds familiar to me. S was one of those kids who struggled with the physical aspect of writing (still does). I assumed that hoding a pencil/pen was just a natural thing, but it wasn’t for him. Talking with friends, I have learned that this is not uncommon especially among boys.</p>
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When I was growing up things like reading and math were very easy but I could relate to the kids who struggled because I struggled so hard when it came to sports or any thing physical.</p>
<p>THANK YOU! I have been racking my brain trying to recall her name as it came up on Tuesday at the parent meeting I attended and then there was another thread on it in the Parent Cafe. I tried to google it all kinds of ways and found lots of interesting stuff but not her name or the book. Apparently, we are having an entire evening as a book club event. Funny thing though… the flyer they handed out said Weds Feb 19 which is actually a Friday… so I didn’t know if they have the day or date wrong, and because it was wrong info I left the flyer sitting there (forgetting that it at least had her name AND the book title).</p>
<p>I remember hearing about reading being so difficult for some because until quite recently (in a history of mankind context), reading has not be necessary for survival. Same can be said for holding a pencil. Of couse, with the popularity of keyboards, we may never all evolve into pencil holders.</p>
<p>On the sorority issue, I read about sorority girls and always wanted to go out with one when I was in college (they sounded fun and maybe a little racy), but we didn’t have fraternities or sororities. This had to wait until graduate school. I introduced a couple who got married a couple of years later. The woman, a bright and ambitious grad student at Harvard, had been a sorority member at University of Texas. She was a pretty normal hard-working student, though with a heavy does of Southern social graces. The wedding was in Austin and she asked her sorority sister (probably not so bright or ambitious but remarkably socially skilled and gracious) to look after me and make sure I had a good time for the long weekend. It seemed like heavy duty social skills were part of the sorority culture (or maybe Texas culture) but male Northeastern social dunces like me are several steps behind when dealing with folks like her.</p>
<p>Shawbridge
seems to me with your encouragement, ShawSon did exactly what was best for him.</p>
<p>I wish I could get #TS to embrace some of the things that are hard to do. Since the written expression was SO hard, he became more and more afraid of it, and now, anything that makse him uncomfortable, he pulls away from.</p>
<p>I am SO upset he thinks math is now not for him, because he had one course in his entire life which was not like breathing to him.</p>
<p>But I guess what <em>I</em> need to learn, is to let it go. I can’t control how he feels any more than I can control what he eats (could never do that either)</p>
<h1>TM, assuming that he can pull things together for the rest of the year, perhaps taking a year off would be a good thing. He might now see that he needs to work on a few skills and use the year to work on these skills if he could do it in a non-threatening way. Possible? [I’m speculating since I don’t know him at all].</h1>
<p>We can’t control what our kids eat, but both do seem to listen to my suggestions for academic work and skill-building. With my anxiety-prone daughter, it takes a while to calm things down before she can hear it.</p>
<p>DL, isn’t 6 cheeseburgers a day a healthy diet. Protein, grains, lettuce, tomato, dairy, avocados. Oh, that was square meals instead of round ones?</p>
<p>Actually, ShawSon’s eating got better at college. He now eats salads before starting the first of his two or three dinners.</p>
<p>all of this is very complicated. D1 has a unilateral hearing loss, and does her accomodations, but is plugged into the disabilities office. She is good a languages but when they use a tape it is too monotone and she cant see the faces. so she has trouble. She floored us with this as she talked a 9 months sentences more at 18 months. S has always done well but AP spanish was hard for her be because of thr tapes. so far this year no tapes but she knows what she has to do.
Eddie we are taking Tim to Barcelona, but I am getting fiestier so more sharing might have to take place!!! My H the spec ED attorney will peruse what you have written, I dont know if he has any ideas but he understands it more than I. i haqve been at him for a few days now. but I guess he does have to work LOL and take care of me LOL!</p>
<p>I am one who lost the weight for a bad reason 60 pounds. But I ihave never been able to keep it off. so Iknow nothing about maintance. I bought that book eat this not that. I see where some calories and bad choices come from. ( unintentional) I think we all try hard but can get unintentionally sabataged!
They are saking for nurses from my hospital to go and help in Haiti I wish I could go help!!!</p>
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IF the need exists, I can also edit (often should, often don’t on these threads). </p>