<h1>TM, sendin ya the light. Once you find out a) why he thinks he struggled with it and b) if his school will accept a community college summer school equivalent, you might see if he’s interested in the following:</h1>
<p>Audit the course once more (if allowed) and then take it for credit or pass/fail, if that option is avail at his school.
Don’t know if this will actually work, but McSon failed music theory first term b/c he did not have sufficient background for the level taught at his SOM, had a Julliard-trained Russian prof (couldn’t understand her accent (due to CAPD) or mystique about m.t.) and because he’s a bonehead who blew off too many of the progressive assignments and couldn’t save himself at the 11th hour. Needed a C- for it to count as it is a prereq for his degree.
So last term, after coming clean to the theory dept. head about what a bonehead he was, they let him sit in on the next sequence gratis, and let him meet every couple of weeks with the new prof to see if by immersing himself in it it was sticking. </p>
<p>The proof will be in the pudding (we hope) next term, but McSon presently claims to wholly grasp the elements that eluded him first term, and seemed to benefit from the bigger picture of the second unit in understanding the first. He also read an alternative and less dense text book last term in prep. So our fingers are crossed. Sometimes it just takes time to shift the paradigm.</p>
<p>So if physics is the equivalent for TMson that theory is to McSon, maybe just sitting in a good lecture with a different prof and no pressure for assignments/exams would orient him a little better for success.</p>
<p>Good luck whichever way you go, and just so you know – McSon says failing music theory was the best thing that ever happened to him at college. He now appears abundantly aware that he cannot magically pull dense and complex material out of his arse at the 11th hour and survive. It also motivated him to discuss his scholarship with the department head, to whom he promised to restore his standing, and believe it or not, indeed he has restored his standing with a titch of room to spare. And even more importantly – I can tell he feels good about cleaning up his mess and making good on his promise (to someone other than me).</p>
<p>peonies, the dinner you described sounds wonderful. #TM, just when things were looking up, I’m sorry to hear about the latest bump in the road.</p>
<p>The Shawbridge family (not including Shawbridge himself) are in mitzvah mode again. ShawSon’s closest friend has something physical or psychological going on. He just got glued in sci-fi/fantasy books (he’s reading something like 1000 pages per day) and missed the last 3 weeks of classes and finals. His mom somehow keeps thinking it was food allergies (and last year giardiasis) and yeast sensitivity. Anyway, he was going to fail out. According to ShawSon, is not lack of focus but extreme lack of executive function. At ShawWife’s suggestion, ShawSon sat down with friend, discovered what the true dimensions of the problem were, planned out a series of emails to the professors, got ShawWife’s cousin and ShawSon’s tutor/co-author to send out polished emails explaining the situation and asking if anything could be done. Three of the four are letting him take the final by mid-June and one is doing the equivalent of annuling the course (it will be as if he never took it). ShawCousin is meeting with him to make sure he does the work until she goes away in a week. If the kid does what is asked (and he’s very bright and somewhat bored at school), he’ll be able to stay in school with likely good grades. </p>
<p>I’ve emailed the dad to suggest hiring ShawCousin or school-based equivalent for next year and doing a full psychological/psychiatric/neuropsychological work-up (and begged his forgiveness for intruding but they are having grave problems with two kids simultaneously and may be overwhelmed). [It ain’t just yeast sensitivity or food allergies and scarily, there is family history of schizophrenia]. I hope this doesn’t backfire.</p>
<p>Physics is a subject in which one has to think in the abstract and, unlike math, connect it to intuition about the physical world. I think it is the hardest subject they teach because of the two separate intellectual abilities required. Many people have neither. I only had one (the abstraction) but not the intuition, though I did well in college physics but could tell I would have great difficulty at the next level. One can BS one’s way through many subjects, even if one is not good at them, because there is no right answer. [Does the red purse in Anna Karenina really represent her will to live? No one can possibly ever know so it is hard to be wrong.] But, in physics, you are either right or wrong. </p>
<p>missypie, they will have to drown the subject to get all kids to pass. Gifted teachers can teach the intuition part, but most HS physics teachers are far from gifted. And, abstraction is abstraction. Some people just don’t do abstraction. Good intentions (or political CYA) will crash into a combination of innate intellectual limitations and teaching quality that isn’t what it would need to be.</p>
<p>Shawbridge, I’m sure the family will be grateful for your support, guidance and suggestions. I know I have struggled with addressing son’s major problems while concurrently supporting D through her relatively minor issues and what I would not have given for a friend to offer any type of suggestion. I do not think you were out of bounds given your family’s obviously close relationship with the son.</p>
<p>Right now there is regular Physics and Pre-AP, then AP after those. But many of even the top students choose to take no Physics at all…they’ll take AP Bio and AP Chem and no Physics. </p>
<p>We all know that public schools cannot have very many students failing a required class. Due to sheer numbers alone, they’ve got to pass the majority and graudate them to make room for the next group coming up. Rignt now in summer school there are only a couple of sections, so there’s not a lot of room for re-takes.</p>
<p>There was previously a course called IPC- Integrated Physics and Chemistry - that the more advanced students took in 8th grade and the other students took in 10th. The state decided that the physics in the course was too watered down, so they are phasing out IPC and requiring a full year of both physics and chemistry. </p>
<p>Think about the public school population in any state…urban, rural, suburban, privileged and disadvantaged, educated parents, uneducated parents…and ALL of them are now deemed capable of passing physics. Very soon what they teach in a full year of physics will be the equivalent of what they taught in a half year of IPC.</p>
<p>S2 was telling us he was failing physics all semester (blaming the teacher of course; he hasn’t had the epiphany of McSon), but then said it all made sense and his understanding of the material magically clicked right before the final, which would align with missypie’s theory about brain types. He ended up with a C+ (but his school drops the plus for GPA purposes). He has to take the next level in the fall so we will see if that “click” remains intact. </p>
<p>He also gained a fair amount of weight over the course of the year, which was late night junk food eating combined with no exercise. At home, he always played a sport and we don’t keep junk food in the house as a rule because I am always struggling with my weight. I’m hoping he get back on track with eating and exercising this summer.</p>
<p>S1 never gained weight in college, but he watches what he eats and exercises daily. I haven’t heard from him yet and I suppose it may be the week-end before we get any news. He needs to buy a converter for his laptop charger to work since that didn’t get done before he left and the stuff the Brazilian team has for their laptops won’t work for his. I was hoping he would send one from work yesterday, but that didn’t happen and I don’t really blame him for not wanting to send a personal email from the office. I will just trust it’s going well but I am curious of course.</p>
I think you’re on the right track, Shawbridge, and am sure the parents will appreciate the support. That said, any food sensitivities (which can be greater in kids with ADHD) can exacerbate symptoms, as, apparently, can pesticides. I hope they take your advice and get to the root. The schizophrenia history could possibly increase the chances of other genetic dopamine issues which could express in myriad ways.</p>
<p>TheAnalyst, D complained bitterly about her Physics teachers both semesters. My hypothesis: if you possess both the analytical and intuitive mind Shawbridge referenced, you may not have the qualities necessary to teach those without those attributes. D told me the prof would spend hours deriving equations (I hope I am getting this right) but then the class would be shaking their heads as to the application. I’m just glad she’s done with the sequence and will never have to take it again. </p>
<p>Son is gaining quite a bit of weight which surprises me as he is not drinking. He doesn’t seem to be eating a great deal either. D went the opposite direction and has lost even more weight. She’ll still be doing a great deal of walking this summer as we just could not work out the logistics of her having a vehicle.</p>
<p>I’ve always said that about the math teachers at school. They should not have math wizzes teaching the required math courses in school. Those people just “see it” the way I understand English because it is my native language. Many of those true math brains can’t comprehend what it’s like to not just “get it.”</p>
<p>I’ve always thought that they should use my kids to evaluate math teachers. My kids are bright but not naturals at math in the least. In years that they have had teachers who can really “teach” math, they get As. When they have teachers who just expect them to know it, they don’t get As.</p>
<p>The head of our HS math department decided this year that the teaches were “spoon feeding” math to the students and that they needed to prepare them for the day when they would have to learn it by themselves. (When, pray tell, would that be?!) The teachers were told to prepare worksheets so the kids could learn certain chapters on their own. This happened periodically thoughout the year. So in Pre-Calc, when the teacher (who is good, by the way) was allowed to teach, D got high As. When D was expected to teach herself, she got low Bs/high Cs. Okay, so that proved that my D cannot teach herself Pre-Calc…did that accomplish what the head of the department wanted to accomplish?</p>
<p>D is currently in the last week of short term. One class is all that they take for the 6 weeks. She is taking abstract concepts in math. She loves math and does well. Just something that she “picked up”. Problem is that there are 3 teachers for this class. One of them is a TA and she says is a whiz. She gets him. The other 2 who are the actual professors in the class she says just don’t explain the concepts well. One is actually better than the other but neither one seem to be as good as the TA. </p>
<p>On the physics perspective sometimes ( and yes it does tie in with the above ) I think that perhaps it’s not so much the class but rather the way that the professor chooses to teach and how the student reacts to that method. Perhaps taking it either from another college/university if the credits will transfer or from another professor may be the way to go. Just my .02.</p>
<p>SHE’S DONE!!! D1 just texted…just finished her last class! I cried as I realized she truly is done with college! She will graduate with a GPA over 3.6(not sure exactly!)…Dean’s List every semester but her first! I am very emotional!</p>
<p>On nocturnal eating habits contributing to weight gain, I guess we should be grateful if our college students aren’t engaging in the naturally slimming nocturnal habits being discussed on the Dartmouth arrests thread. </p>
<p>About math, D2’s problems may have been exacerbated by the teaching method of previous teacher (two prior terms) who expects the students to just get it (some do; it’s a rigorous school with only one math track until calculus). It’s a badge of honor if you get it, and an embarrassment if you don’t. After meeting the teacher last fall, H and I looked at each other - we knew D was in for it.</p>
<p>TM sorry but know you guys will do ok. NM congrats Zet awesome. shaw how nice of you guys to step in and help.
My kids are ok in math one better than the other. D1 who is ok, loved physics . D2 should have been on the honors math track, but got “the bad” teacher, so we dropped hertp regular math (with my situation) it was too much. so she is on that track, I hope it doesnt affect her college process too much. both dislike chemistry, D! said I just didnt get it. the only C she ever got. D2 dislikes it but does better except for possibly this quarter. I am a poor memorizer, Anatomy was hard, although once I learned it another way I was fine, but pathophysiology was great. I have to understand it to get it My classmates were the opposite.</p>
<p>Sabaray, I think my concern is that a) we went beyond advice and fixed it for him (ShawWife fears that the mom will feel mad because our actions imply that she doesn’t have things under control?); and b) we’re offering unsolicited advice that isn’t easy to hear?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>kmc, where would I look for more information on this?</p>
<p>This discussion reinforces that there are so many different kinds of learners - even when motivation and a willingness to work hard are givens. It’s too bad when a student’s experience with an individual teacher or subject (ie physics or chemistry) ends up marginalizing them. My D2 is bright and motivated, but the pace of math at her school is fast, and there is no way to step out of the sequence until you’ve fulfilled the math requirement. She loves biology, and had been considering a health career. Maybe her weakness in math is a heads up that a health career wouldn’t work for her. Or maybe with more time and a different teacher, she could manage the math well enough.</p>
<p>peonies I am a nurse and being so so in math has not affected me and I work in a major Boston Hospital ICU. so many things come into play, intuition, people skills, caring, focus. I realy belive like missy that it depends on the teacher, My kids are the same, they get A’s if the teacher is good. Just because you 'get " math doesnt mean you can teach it and I find this all the time. I have to pay for tutors. which I resent because I pay for private HS. but its universal.
Shawbridge, I know that is such a fine line, but you must have felt like you needed to cross it. most people would not have cared, or at least felt like they couldnt. not sure how I would have felt. I probably would have been angry at first and would have preferred to be alerted. but you know the players.
congrats to all that I may have missed. D1 is in jury duty, she has been chosen and there since monday. I never get picked not sure if its my occupation or my H’s. I am with you on the appliances, everything is breaking, just had to buy a new fridge. I had put that money away for other things. At least Ihave it .</p>
<p>Peonies, when my bright nephew was in high school in a high-achieving suburban district, he was struggling in math. Eventually, my sister learned to her surprise that about half the kids in her son’s grade had math tutors. Ridiculous, in my opinion-- if half the students in the class have tutors, the teacher is not doing her job. But, anyway, my nephew’s performance improved when he got a tutor. Informal or formal tutoring might help your D.</p>
<p>Edited to add: On the other hand, half of what a tutor does is make the kid <em>do the homework</em>. My high school math teacher used to say, “Do your work daily or get hit with a shillelagh.” Nobody learns math without doing math, though many students try.</p>